Hi parents, new member here, second daughter considering college options. She maxed out on math options last year (junior year) and took multivariable calc as dual enrollment with the high school and community college, got a B. Then she took differential equations (non dual-enrollment, so ONLY A COLLEGE grade) and did not pass. Both classes were online classes due to schedule. Devastated. She is a straight A or almost straight A high honors student. In retrospect she should have stopped and regrouped. What does this even look like on her application? Does she have to submit the grade? It isn’t part of her high school transcript at all.
She will need to send the transcript to most schools.
Whenever she applies for admission to a degree program at an accredited college or university for the rest of her life, she will be obligated to send the transcript. If she ever applies for a job that requires all of her transcripts, she will have to send it there too.
Yes the grade is not what she had hoped to earn, but this is an advanced math course that most college students don’t ever take, and she was an 11th grader when she attempted it. Any place that can’t see that, and holds the grade against her, is a place she doesn’t want to be associated with.
She should communicate with the college and find out what her options are. Is there a way to arrange a retroactive drop? Can she re-take the course and have the grade replaced? If she does re-take the course, what does she plan to do differently so that she can earn a better grade?
DiffyQ in high school? My only question would be why oh why? But yes all transcripts go to the college. I agree to see if you can rig something so it goes away. Maybe have her throw her high school self on the mercy of the registrar
Why did she fail it, in your opinion?
I would not think less of the mathematical ability of someone in this situation. I think a lot of college admissions committees will be understanding about it. Without identifying the particular college offering the course online, can you give any idea of the general category of the college? It would potentially make a difference. Did the college offer any kinds of support for the online students? Was a class with the same exams offered as a lecture class at the college?
I am not really a fan of online learning for high school or early college students. Later, it can be fine. A few places have good, high-level online courses for high school students, but some are pretty skeletal.
Was your daughter going to receive any credit for the course at her high school?
I hope this experience will not frighten your daughter away from higher-level math. With a faculty member who explains what the course material is all about, I think she will understand the topics in the future.
I would not be inclined to have her jump back into the same course, taught in the same way, next year.
I will mention that our family looked at EPGY math courses online. Though some people have found them to be great, I thought that the rules for formatting answers could become very frustrating–a student could have solved a problem correctly but not get credit because of mis-formatting the answers (great for students who really enjoy rules). Also, the quality of the tutors assigned to work with the online students seems to be variable.
Something she might take a look at, if she enjoys math, aside from her most recent experience: the Art of Problem Solving web site has many math materials, challenging problems, scheduled “math jams,” courses and books. The AoPS material is partly intended to prepare students for math competitions, but also it delves more deeply into pre-calculus math than most high school courses do. The people who run AoPS encourage a slower pace in mathematics, prior to calculus. (Personally, I suspect that none of them have children in the school system yet, so they haven’t seen that there might be reasons for not going slowly.) However, since they do go much deeper into the pre-calc subjects, their material can provide challenges, and better preparation for later math. You might have your daughter take a look at Alcumulus (or something like that) on the AoPS website. It is free, offers sets of problems on different topics, and provides “badges” (well, badge icons).
It is better to have math next year than not. However, one possibility would be to take one or more of the AoPS courses, on a purely “for fun” basis. AoPS will provide certificates that can be referenced in a college application, but there is no need to feel pressured to “succeed.”
One of the problems she’s going to have is for colleges that require 4 years of math in high school. That failing grade will be problematic. She should see about retaking it, but a live class.
I sympathize with your D’s situation. My D took multivariable online last year (senior yr) because the live classes didn’t fit into her schedule. It was a stressful semester and she’s sworn off online classes. She then made sure to fit DiffQ into her schedule the next semester and it was a much more enjoyable experience.
That “four years of math” is Algebra, Geometry, Trig and one other class (could be pre-calc or calculus). She’s already met that. Piling on the extra (and probably unnecessary) math classes only adds a burden, especially if they’re offered at the community college, which may use tougher grading criteria. I would have stopped at Calc BC in high school unless she’s demonstrated genius level talent.
In Maryland, it is “four years of math” in high school for the UMDCP no matter what level math. This change was made 2 or 3 years ago due to kids who did not take math senior year and then did poorly in math once they started college, it did not matter what level was taken earlier.
My twins just finished 6th grade and in their public school an 8th grader was taking DiffEQ (he had already skipped a grade and is highly gifted in math). I wonder what he will take the next 4 yrs. One of my twins was very bored in 2 yrs ahead (pre-alegebra) and tried to move up. The school made it very difficult for him and I had very conflicted feelings. He was more then ready for Alegebra, but I was worried about the required 4 yrs of math in HS. He wants to take summer school after 8th grade to move 3 yrs ahead and we will re-visit issue then.
One other thing our school system does that is different then most is that you have to take Calc AB before Calc BC.
Not having a 2.0 GPA is a problem for any public school that requires a 2.0 for consideration - see all Florida publics – may need a non math class to be eligible for admission.
I don’t see the point of that comment, Melissa96. If the student took 4 high school classes and got an A in each of them, then even if the DiffEq course is folded in, the student’s unweighted GPA would be 3.2 for the semester, and higher for the year.
@Muad_dib Be careful with that assumption. There are many schools that want to see 4 years of math in high school, regardless of the level the student started at.
My older S’s public HS had a specialized STEM program which attracted many top math students. One of the things we liked best about it was that it offered high-level math at the school with age peers. S was able to take DiffEq, Complex Analysis and other post-AP math with his HS classmates. (Yes, he majored in math.) That said, there were still a few folks who went over to UMD-CP for more advanced courses. S was already young for grade and didn’t want to take classes on campus, but the HS had enough to keep him happy. He did go over to the campus for CS/math mentoring in junior and senior year after school, but didn’t take classes there.
His HS did calc-based Stat in one semester as a substitute for AP Stat, and Analysis I was BC Calc taken in one semester and went well beyond the AP curriculum. DiffEq is a very tough course. My college BF took it junior year of college; he was a math minor and it kicked his tail.
I think if your D (or a GC/math teacher who are familiar wtith her experience with the course) addresses the class in one of her essays and talks about what she learned from the experience, she’ll be fine. Most math majors (and other STEM folks) get to a class where they hit the wall. Colleges do like to see kids take academic risks, even if it means they sometimes fail.
@QuantMech BUT the dual enrollment class is on it’s own and an F. That would mean when the college transcript arrives, admission would be rescinded and it is required that all college transcripts be sent.
I’m sorry, but it does need to be reported. All high schools and colleges attended are part of your application.
Just explain the circumstances as best as you can.
That seems unlikely. Really.
Ok, just don’t apply to a Florida public or take another class to get your GPA to a 2.0 - I don’t know about the rest of the country.
Do you have a link, because that’s not how I’m reading it. OP’s DiffEQ course was NOT a dual enrollment course.
Sorry, not in Florida, so I really don’t know. But I am sure that admissions won’t be rescinded over the course, because the student hasn’t even applied yet. (Rescinding the admission of a student who hasn’t applied would be a new low, even for the college I like least!)
As far as whether she has to submit the grade with her applications: Probably, but I would read the “fine print” at each college where she is applying. It would be safer for the future to include it.
What I recommend: Your daughter should prepare a single sentence statement explaining what she thought went wrong, and how she will avoid that in the future. (She could use a semi-colon.)
How are her math scores on standardized tests? Will the high school count this grade in any way in their ranking, or not?
In my experience, everyone who took math at a very high level in high school wound up over his/her head at some point. One of my classmates was just hanging on by his fingertips in a college math class, when he was a high school senior; he became the chairman of a math department at a large research university. If the class had been online, it would most likely have been too much.