<p>^^^
We knew our DS was an above average student. Less than a B meant he was either slacking off or was too involved in ECs or both. We told him the ground rule and held him to it. It’s called parenting.</p>
<p>The reason I mentioned this was that the OP said her DS was doing marching band and was not using his time wisely. So for us the ECs would immediately stop. </p>
<p>What is more important - school or ECs?</p>
<p>Won’t he have to quit band if he is flunking a class anyway? Isn’t that one of the district rules for participation in ECs?</p>
<p>A very talented freshman athlete on one of my son’s teams was flunking a class. The coach got involved to make sure that kid didn’t get disqualified from playing in the the big games by having him sit out and study during some of the minor games so the kid cold bring his grade up enough to stay on the team. So far it is working. I was impressed the coach was willing to sacrifice the kid’s participation in the short term to put the boy on the right track.</p>
<p>I get the impression that the issue here is more about the student being in over his head than not working. True, he isn’t working, but it is because he is unable to keep up. He needs a new, slower paced class.</p>
<p>How many years of math/what level is required to graduate? Is it too late to drop pre-calc–maybe take stats or accounting next year? I see how your student would want to protect rank/GPA. I’d tell him to drop rather than let him fail/struggle.</p>
<p>Just an FYI…if you think your son cannot be a successful college student…or even a STEM major unless he takes precalc as a junior and calc as a senior…you are not correct.</p>
<p>Both my husband (a successful engineer) and daughter (graduated with dual majors in bioengineering and biology) did NOT take calculus in high school. Both took it as college students, and both took MANY higher level math courses with success. It is not necessary to take calculus as a high school student to major in a STEM field in college.</p>
<p>Thanks for the replies. I am trying to really ponder the advice. To answer some questions, it is too late to drop or change a class. We started school Aug. 27. He did take regular chemistry last year in 10th grade. The chemistry is listed as 2 classes honors chem in the fall and AP chem in the spring (semester block schedule), but it is designed to be a year long class with students taking the AP chem test in May. We could possibly wiggle out of it at semester end but not before.
The precal is not honors. There is no honors in precal. We did drop the online psych class. Band is a class so “dropping” isn’t really possible. He would fail band too if he did not show up for after school practice or competitions. He selected all of these courses. We did allow him to sign up but actually encouraged a lighter schedule. He earned an A in Algebra II and Geometry. He took Algebra I in 8th grade and earned a B. He used the tutor last year in Algebra II. We both like the tutor and consider her excellent. </p>
<pre><code> I spoke with the tutor today. She feels that he is depressed. She is worried for him also. She feels he is not attempting to do enough problems on his own without help and that he doesn’t show his work enough. He is not doing all the homework on a daily basis. Both the precal and chemistry teachers do not collect homework. He will delay studying these subjects until forced and then he will be nearly out of time. Sometimes he will tell me something in English is due tomorrow and he has to do it first. I try to sit with him and assist while he does it. Frequently my being there will annoy him so much he just shuts down.
I feel at this point my choices are just be sympathetic and let him take the consequences or require that he do the homework on a daily basis and take his cell phone, restrict laptop access until daily homework is done. I could also take the car keys, but he is really only going to school, church, and tutor so I’m not sure that would help much. I am considering working out with the tutor for her to “grade” it on a daily basis. I think I would simply put the focus on do the hw every day and let the grades take care of themselves. We can certainly do the tutor twice a week. He is now required to spend 30 minutes of the hour long lunch period in math tutoring at school once a week. This is school policy because he is flunking.
</code></pre>
<p>If you think this could be depression, please talk to your doctor.</p>
<p>Sorry to keep writing long posts. I have a lot of worry bottled up. In answer to questions he will not do calculus in high school obviously. He does not and never has wanted to be a STEM major. In high school he earned an unweighted 4.0 the first semester and decided he liked it. He always waited until the last minute to do the work, but somehow pulled it off. He hated me trying to control when he did his work, and told me he had it and would point to past success as justification for my staying out of it.<br>
He started spiraling down in August with band camp. He threw up on the field the first day. After that he missed most of band camp (3 weeks) with nausea. He did vomit a few times sporadically. We took him to the doctor 3 times and were simply told long lasting virus until the last time. We now have a pending appt. with a gastroenterologist in a few weeks for followup. I thought all along it was possible psychological, but the dr. never concurred. The nausea actually stopped when school started.<br>
I do strongly feel that a good grade in something in these courses would help tremendously, but that is unlikely to happen by random chance.</p>
<p>Generally he is very impatient in math when he doesn’t know the answer right away. Whereas I always halfway liked puzzling out the answer seeing it as a challenge, he just gets impatient and wants someone to tell him the answer. </p>
<p>I am not sure what grade he is capable of in precal, but I think it is better than an F. It shouldn’t go from an A in Algebra II to a F. He might have to live with a B or a C, but he does seem to understand it with enough practice. His tutor also said she believes he is capable of understanding it.</p>
<p>I would schedule time every day to sit down with your son and WATCH as he does his precalculus and AP chemistry homework, literally. He would also have to explain what he is doing so you understand,too. This way, you know he understands the material. </p>
<p>I would email the math & AP chemistry teachers and request the assignments be emailed to you daily. Helicopting, yes, it is. I would set up study time for each subject and again, sit with him as he studied. I would quiz him on section information, and give him a few extra problems during the study sessions to make sure he understands. This would be above and beyond working with his tutor. </p>
<p>It’s about maturity and accountability, and sorry to say this, your son chooses not to do his problem sets which is the sole reason why he is felling . He cannot pass precalculus by working with his tutor once a week and doing nothing else. The same goes for AP Chemistry. </p>
<p>He’s most likely depressed because he’s in such a hole and does not know how to dig himself out. I would take away all electronics until he raises the AP chemistry grade to a B, and the precalculus grade to passing, and a D is not passing. </p>
<p>If he absolutely needs a phone for emergencies, then get one of those pay as you go phones that is not a smart phone and has no internet or texting capabilities. Once he shows improvement, and is responsible to keep the precalulus an AP chemistry grade at a satisfactory. </p>
<p>I would be quite concerned, as this may be a prelude into what may happen at college. </p>
<p>Also, make an appointment for the possible depression.</p>
<p>
Any parent would. I mean that in a kind and supportive, “there, there” sort of way.</p>
<p>If this has been going on for months, and shows no real signs of abating, I think you should have him evaluated by a psychiatrist. Because a psychiatrist is a medical doctor, he or she is trained to think about both medical and emotional causes for the symptoms you are seeing–the depressed mood, the lethargy, the inability to do well in subjects that were previously strengths for your son.</p>
<p>If it were my son, I wouldn’t cancel the gastroenterologist, but I’d also seek a consultation with a psychiatrist who has experience working with older teens. </p>
<p>This must be a tough row to hoe for the entire family. But depression–if that’s what this is–is quite treatable, and it may well be that life doesn’t have to be this hard for any of you. Best wishes to you all.</p>
<p>Drop him to a regular math class (do they even have a regular pre-calc?) and regular chemistry (or honors, but not AP). Two out of three of my kids did this, and it worked out just fine. My third loves loves math so that was a different story.</p>
<p>I am assuming he enjoys band/music. Maybe he can do more with music if his time is freer. If he loves writing, or humanities, maybe he can do more in that direction. Has he done any theater? The point is, the time and energy that might be freed up is worth way more than the stress involved in the current unrealistic program he is bound to.</p>
<p>I believe that, if your main focus is getting into college, you are following the wrong formula, to be honest. He should not take classes that are too challenging for him in the math/sciencde area. Top colleges recognize that people are good at some things and not on others. Your son should follow his interests and strengths at this point, not some prescribed path.</p>
<p>For you, and this will trickle down to him: it really does work out to focus on the present, happiness, development, exploration, health and so on, and not some future goal that may not even bring fulfillment anyway.</p>
<p>Is this the first year that he has actually had to study these subjects, rather than pretty much getting it on the first try? If that is the case, his internal struggle is with the whole concept of studying, and he probably lacks just about every single time management strategy and study technique that less “smart” students began to develop back in elementary school.</p>
<p>It looks to me like he has hit that wall, and hit it hard. He needs to be armed with the missing strategies and techniques before he heads off to college. If the tutor doesn’t feel like she’s making enough headway, screening for previously undetected learning issues may be in order.</p>
<p>Wishing you all the best!</p>
<p>CompMom, the young gentleman cannot drop or change classes at this point, so the family is in triage mode. They must deal with the possibility the OP’s son is depressed, as well as a plan to raise her son’s grades in precalculus and AP chemistry. </p>
<p>I wish the best to them, and know with presiverance, they will get through this bump in the son’s road. He may not finish out the semester with an A, but if the family takes action now, they can reverse the grades since the son has only been in school for roughly 4 weeks.</p>
<p>I agree with the posters who have said get him checked out for the depression. This is very similar to the pattern a good friend of ours followed. He was in the top 10 % of class, then started failing classes in his weak subjects, so much to the point he was not allowed to participate on his sports team. Winter of senior year he committed suicide. Everyone seemed to be focusing on the low grades and missed the root depression.</p>
<p>Junior is tough. For many kids it will be there most difficult year of high school. If this boy is depressed is he depressed because he’s not getting straight As or is he depressed and that is what is causing the problems or is he simply “over his head”? No one here can determine this but I think right now the last thing someone should do is tell him he can’t participate in marching band if he likes it/loves it. Fix the depression and the academics. Everyone needs balance in their life and getting all “As” is a pretty low priority compared to decreasing stress and eliminating depression. All kids need to learn how to manage their schedule, switch a class if they need to and find balance.</p>
<p>I know you said you like the tutor. I’m wondering ,my DS’s tutor for math is a math teacher at his high school. She is able to explain to him exactly what his teacher expects and can also go and talk directly to her about what they learned in class. Is your tutor able to do that on a weekly basis? It may be helpful. Also I think once a week isn’t enough since he is failing. Even if all the tutor is doing is watching him do his home work at least you know he is doing it and if his grade goes up hopefully he won’t feel as lost about it.</p>
<p>I’m not sure how you can use this information, but I’ll share it anyway. D’s high school friend just received his BS in engineering. When he was in 11th grade he dropped precalc (had a horrible teacher, etc) Not only was he admitted into engineering with only precalc as a senior but also placed in the honors college. Now the U waited to accept him - waited until April. I think the fact that his Math SAT was 700+ made up for the other.</p>
<p>These challenges are the time you really need to think about where you son might apply, and how your son’s application will look. A large public - especially one out-of-state without a lot of other competition from your high school, will focus on GPA and SAT’s. Is he likely to compete with his high school peers for college admission ~ applying to the same colleges in state? You will need to know what those colleges value most.</p>
<p>Our school system (fcps), will let the kids crash-and-burn. If a hugh % get D’s or F’s they never think it’s the teachers fault. For some students - considering their target colleges -it’s better to protect the gpa at all cost -even if it means dropping a class or even two.</p>
<p>Again, depends on your local area.</p>
<p>OK, if he’s not interested in STEM, I wouldn’t be in AP science. Yes I know you said he can’t drop, but have you talked to guidance or vice principal that handles academics? We had drop deadlines at girls HS, but in extreme circumstances the right person could make the class go away (and the WF with it). Since band is elective, maybe that would work for that if not the math. So if you haven’t talked to someone up the food chain, do it. One of D’s friends had big problems in honors precal and they were able to move her over to virtual precal class - not sure if something like that would really help except class expectations might work better for him.</p>
<p>Hopefully these are year long classes and you have time to pull up grades. Good luck, it’s so frustrating when our kids are in over their head.</p>
<p>^^ sorry, I didn’t see that he couldn’t drop the class. I still don’t understand why not. I’d talk directly to the Principal to know all your options ~ and even look up the school board directive (if a public school) to make sure you are getting the real story.</p>
<p>I also wonder if an evaluation from a psychologist or a doctor’s note saying that the situation was emotionally stressful for the student wouldn’t allow you to override the policy. To me, it just seems downright cruel to make a student continue in a class that is not required for graduation when the class is making the student’s life miserable. My parents once had a similar situation with my younger brother (the course was a music theory elective). They didn’t even have to get a diagnosis in the end - telling the principal that that’s what they were going to do if he didn’t back down wound up being enough. He replaced the course with a study hall, and had a decent year.</p>