<p>We just returned from the Smith Open Campus last week. The Smith campus culture was an eye opener. The issue for parents and students is to look at Smith's "fit" with their family values. There were several shockers while touring the campus. There were two instances of two young women on the ground outside making out while one was on top of the other. The flip flop outside the door (don't disturb our privacy while we do our thing) tradition was interesting in the dorm halls as was the large number. Attending a class? A professor who was to teach did not teach as shown on the class schedule and a visiting student sitting the back of the science classroom was able to watch a boring fill in teacher, three sleeping students, and most of the awake students on their laptops playing solitaire or on Facebook. The one student paying attention was from Mount Holyoke. Also, if you want to hear 6 students talk about their same sex techniques at dinner, Smith offers good listening. Also, don't forget the upcoming Sexibition with nude photographs of Smith students. Also, ask about how students rate each other as sex partners. Also, enjoy guessing whether the person you just walked by is male or female. Before entering into this bubble that is isolated from the real world, ask yourself whether it is a "fit" academically "and" culturally. Ask yourself candidly, can I stomach this atmosphere for 4 years?</p>
<p>Huh. While I get your point, I just want to put in my two cents. I was at Smith for the open campus and saw none of these things, nor did I on any other visit to the campus. I sat in on two classes (Intro to Cultural Anthropology and Elementary Arabic) and the teachers and students were engaged and interested in the subjects. I saw far less PDA at Smith than I do at my high school, and the conversations I overheard in the dining halls were far more “appropriate” than the conversations some of my friends have daily in public places. 
All a matter of perspective. But I do agree that you need to look at the cultural fit of a school before deciding to attend.</p>
<p>Thank you for that completely unbiased and non-homophobic assessment of Smith.</p>
<p>I stated observations. You think stating observations is homophobic? I guess my five college degrees have taught me nothing about evaluating college campus culture. You, I guess, have more in depth experience and don’t think students and parents should look for fit. If my observations fit your value system parents and students, by all means attend. You just need to be aware of how this campus culture aligns with your value system before you make a long and extremely expensive 4 year commitment.</p>
<p>Five college degrees? Woah I didn’t even know that was possible, how come? Please note, not trying to be snarky here, just genuinely curious. About your observations, I cannot discount them entirely because some people have told me similar things, though not nearly as extreme. And yes, especially for international students, thinking about campus culture is very important.</p>
<p>I am an evangelical Christian - and my daughter goes to Smith.</p>
<p>Between my husband and I we have seven children. This daughter is the 4th to attend college. I have seen many college campuses. Many.</p>
<p>There is nothing that happens at Smith that doesn’t happen at any other college campus. In fact, I feel my daughter is probably safer at Smith than she would be at a co-ed school.</p>
<p>The culture is unique, but there is nothing more “immoral” about Smith than any other secular college campus.</p>
<p>And I am quite sure that Jesus’ reaction would be to sit down with the ladies at Smith and eat lunch, while reminding the Pharisees to check their eyes for logs.</p>
<p>cncrdparent, just a thought: my daughter mentioned that on Visit Days from prospective families at her high school, they are “tempted” to say wild things about the school at the lunch table. She said it in passing, as though it was funny – but they do not do it – discipline repercussions for sure if found out. This event that you saw in the dining hall strikes me as exactly that sort of immaturity, and maybe in a group they felt more free to play a game they would never do alone.</p>
<p>I read on the another board that a parent saw two men making out on the quad. This is such an experimental stage, as we all know even more stupid things happen when the drinks come out. I wouldn’t read too much into it. Visit days can be such a crapshoot, and I doubt you can get a True Picture in 24 hours at Any college. Seeing 100 students out of 2500 just is not a valid sample.</p>
<p>I don’t think it’s a matter of your “value system” since every campus is filled with students with different values, opinions, and lifestyles. No one set of behaviors or values is representative of the entire student body – it’s just not possible. </p>
<p>That said, yes, if openly gay couples bother your daughter, then Smith would be the wrong place for her. Smith is a liberal college where tolerance for a wide range of beliefs and lifestyles, whether they be traditional or alternative, is expected. Keep this in mind, though: your daughter’s values are her own, and no matter where she goes, she will evaluate and reinforce them on her own. Believe it or not, almost every campus has an openly gay population, although admittedly it’s probably a lower percentage than Smith’s.</p>
<p>For the record: Smithies are not all gay – I think that the figure (Mini or someone else can chime in here) is 2/3 straight. And the flip-flop thing? “Sexiling” is common at any university, heterosexual or homosexual. I once had a student whose roommate “sexiled” him several nights a week because the roommate picked up girls at parties. Needless to say, my student wanted to change dorm rooms, but he did get a lot of studying done in the library. :)</p>
<p>I do not doubt any of the OP’s observations … and I totally agree anyone considering Smith should visit to judge fit … I certainly think Smith is a fairly unique place. However my take on these obervations is differnet. From anyhing I heard and read I believe the lesbian population (%) at Smith is probably higher than most than most other schools … but not overwhelming and virtually all other schools have sizeable lesbain populations also. I also believe the lesbian population at Smith is very visible … I would say YMMV about this fact … personally I (and my daughter) found this openess a positive thing. Along a similar vain when my daughter visited Barnard they had an event similar to Sexibition going on … and my daughter was impressed that the event was being held … not for the content (at least I think not for the content) but that the school did not censor the current student’s activities during prospective student visits … we went to other campuses which were pristine (not a cigarette butt, gum wrapper, flyer, or any evidence of alternative lifestyles) and my daughter started calling these schools “Stepford Campuses” … again YMMV if a campus being open to showing all it’s attributes is a good or bad thing. So yes, I totally agree a prospective student should viist Smith … it is a unique place and has a unique culture and will let you see it when you visit … and to this Dad it’s a wonderful and special place.</p>
<p>(PS - no defense of the lousy class … but sitting in on a class is a little like tour guides and dorm hosts … some are terrific; most are Ok; and a few suck)</p>
<p>I don’t know why the professor wasn’t in the class; however, professors at all universities arrange for guest lecturers when they leave for professional conferences. And hey, sometimes they have family emergencies or get sick. If someone taught the class in a boring manner but wasn’t the usual prof, then that class should not be seen as representative.</p>
<p>I definitely agree with you and other posters that one should visit campuses to make sure one will feel comfortable but…</p>
<p>Surfing the net during class happens EVERYWHERE. I’m a career-changer who returned to college a few years ago. I can tell you from first-hand experience, students watch youtube videos, go shopping, read email all during class. Are you trying to say the MHC student was a “better” student?</p>
<p>All the stuff you mentioned about sex–no different at co-ed schools. Would it be less disturbing if it were heterosexual sex?</p>
<p>I think you do see more same-sex PDA at Smith, but that’s simply because the only people that have significant others on campus all the time are women that date other women. </p>
<p>I think you could look at your observations from another perspective. Smith women are affectionate and don’t find it necessary to hide their affection. Also, they’re college students, so they’re not afraid of being affectionate in public. Flip flop outside the door? Smith students are respectful of their roommates and others and want to be sure they’re aware so they don’t stumble into an awkward situation. Conversation of sexual techniques at dinner? Well, again, Smith students are open. They’re very close (platonically, usually) to their friends and housemates, close enough to discuss without fear subjects that might make strangers blush. Boring fill in teacher? Teachers get sick/have things come up all the time. Sometimes you have a boring class. Not every single class you take at any school is going to be hyper-stimulating. Sexhibition? It’s an art show, and it does feature nudes, but it also is a celebration of women of every body type, every personal representation, and every sexual orientation. It presents women much more respectfully and artfully than 99% of the glossy airbrushed magazines that sell girls impossible standards of beauty every day. Enjoy guessing whether the person is male or female? I’m proud to be an alum of a school where people can dress and look as they like without censure. I knew a Smith students who dressed all in black, ones who looked like J. Crew models, ones who would be good candidates for what not to wear. I knew ones that dressed as men, I knew ones who LIVED as men and requested to be adressed with a male pronoun. All are different. But they are all Smithies, so each is a sister of mine. </p>
<p>If you think that’s something that you have to “stomach” that’s fine, you probably should not attend Smith (or send your daughter to Smith if she feels the same). Everyone has the right to attend a college where she or he is comfortable, and no one will be forced to accept Smith’s offer. I wish you the best, but if you’re expecting people here to make apologies or excuses for the way Smith is, well, that’s just not in the cards.</p>
<p>The flip-flop thing doesn’t necessarily mean what you think it means. The entire second floor of my house leaves their flip-flops, rain boots, and tennis shoes outside their doors all day and all night! And I can guarantee you that, 99% of the time, these people are doing homework while their shoes sit outside.</p>
<p>Also, I am of the same religion as susgeek, and while there have been times when I have felt uncomfortable about some of the things that go on here, I also know that I am free to participate in them or not participate in them and no one will think less of me either way. I choose not to get involved. Life goes on. :)</p>
<p>It appears that the primary focus of the replies has been on the lesbian issue as opposed to the academic one. If the departmental spokesperson talks the talk, he should make sure his fellow professors walk the walk. At the departmental presentation, it was stated to parents and visiting students that the professors use give and take in the classroom to develop students’ minds rather than simply fill student minds with data for an entire lecture period by talking and not having discussion. In both instances in which my daughter attended a class, it was pure lecture. In the instance of the class she attended to listen to a specific professor well known in his field (that the Smith schedule misrepresented would teach the class), there was a guest lecturer who apparently comes on a regular basis. The full professor sat in the back of the classroom. The content of the lecture was material my daughter had already covered in her AP class. She found the lecture boring and confusing. Her high school AP teacher explained the material more cogently. The second lecture she attended also was pure lecture with no discussion. My daughter took away from Smith a guesstimate of 70% lesbian. I am not sure how she came by that figure. The tour guide on our first visit to Smith last Fall said Smith did not provide statistics on that issue. At Open Campus last weekend, my daughter passed one group of openly gay females who looked her over like she was a piece of sexual meat. If your daughter is straight, she will need to have a stomach of iron to endure 4 years of this campus culture. One student intimated in private to us how she almost transferred her sophomore year and spent time abroad her junior year. Returning as a senior, she expressed how she loved living off campus. I wonder why. Smith does a great job marketing its campus. To conform reality to the hype, it is essential that a student spend at least a day and an overnight to gain the true flavor of this college. Until the campus culture changes, it seems to me that Smith (if students visit and spend the night) will have an ongoing problem recruiting straight students. As regards the reply about safety in the area of Smith, when visiting stores in downtown Northampton next to campus, I observed numerous panhandlers. In one instance three in one block. One got in front of a young woman who may have been a Smith student and would not let her pass by him. She had to go practically onto the street to get away. The hype and marketing, as noted above, needs to be checked against reality through an in depth campus and local surrounding area visit.</p>
<p>This Dad and his D loved the recent Open Campus in large part because we found both the campus and its people were (gasp) so open. We took the opportunity to speak with people to learn as much as we could. We found (again, gasp) that there are actual real people behind the attention grabbing outside appearances! Amazing.</p>
<p>We sat in on a wonderful discussion in class, saw a couple of same sex couples embracing, had a wonderful discussion with the Student president and other student officers about the college, spoke to three folks in a Transgender group (my first), and also spoke with a proud Catholic at the Republican Club table (far from my first). All were exceedingly nice, open, confident, and engaging to both me and my D. </p>
<p>When I was correctly ditched by my D so she could go to class unencumbered, I continued to interact with those on campus. While outside one building, I observed a professor providing detailed yet supportive criticism about a student’s recent oral presentation. I then joked with the prof that it had been a staged commercial for us parents! This generated a wonderful short conversation about the value of teaching.</p>
<p>I spoke with a cleaning lady in the campus center about keeping up with Spring mud. She spoke of the benefits of frozen ground, but indicated the students just loved the spring so much. I watched a serious art class on the lawn and spoke with other prospies about courses they had attended. I commiserated with elementary teachers who had brought their far too energetic charges to visit the Smith greenhouses. I had discussions with at least 8 students about their research projects. I asked students for directions when lost and was impressed to be escorted to the specific building. I also saw folks spray painting posters in support of transgendered rights. My daughter had varied and numerous discussions with a broad range of folks on campus.</p>
<p>I kinda think my D and I got a very good understanding of Smith College. At least 20% of what we SAW involved same sex or transgendered content, but 90% of what we LEARNED had little to do with we viewed or heard, our learning came from our interactions.</p>
<p>It is a shame the OP may have missed the opportunity for more interaction and instead appeared to be largely caught up in observing/commenting on one dimension that, while certainly out in the open, is far from the entirety of what the Open Campus offered. </p>
<p>I guess part of the exercise is to see how open YOU are to the campus and all of its inhabitants and whether you can engage beyond surface impressions. If not, Smith is not for you.</p>
<p>The event certainly impressed my D. Our down payment was sent 24 hours later!</p>
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<p>Whoa. My daughter is straight, and she LOVED Smith. She didn’t need an “stomach of iron.”</p>
<p>And academics? My daughter was accepted to a fully-funded PhD in neuroscience program right out of Smith, and she was completely prepared for research and courses at the intense graduate level. She found that she was much better prepared than some of her cohort. Yes, she did have one subpar prof at Smith (in 4 years!), and yes, some professors were better than others. Some courses were lecture-based while others were discussion-based – it depends on the level and the kind of course it was. </p>
<p>I understand your concerns about the lesbian issue since you aren’t alone with your discomfort, but you have nothing to fear about the quality of the education. My husband and I are very familiar with higher education, and we know that our daughter got an absolutely top-notch education at Smith.</p>
<p>My daughter is also straight. She has a serious boyfriend, in fact. </p>
<p>I want my daughter to grow up accepting people as individuals - not based on their choices. </p>
<p>She has to work very hard to keep her grades up. It is hard to get and keep good grades at a school like Smith that has high academic standards.</p>
<p>Yes I still believe Smith is very safe. There are panhandlers and homeless in just about every town in the country. We work in a homeless ministry. You can’t define a homeless person by their current state in life. They are, like all of us, individuals.</p>
<p>Perhaps Smith is not the right choice for you and your family. There is nothing wrong (or right) about that choice.</p>
<p>There are definitely panhandlers in downtown Northampton, I don’t think that the school ever tried to hide it. I’ve never had one get in front of me though I did once see a teenage “panhandler” get pulled out of a doorway, by his mother, by his ear, and told very sternly that he was NOT homeless and he needed to go do his homework. Some of the local kids seem to think that dressing scruffily and hanging out in doorways is fun. But of course, some of the people are genuinely homeless. I’ve never heard of anyone having an issue though. Smith public safety can provide you with the exact crime statistics for students, but I can tell you they’re quite low. I frequently walked both in town and on campus very late at night and never had any problems whatsoever. </p>
<p>As for the academics, like I said, not every class is going to be perfect. If the guest lecturer comes regularly, it may have just been bad luck that Open Campus fell during one of his visits. It’s not fair to expect the prof to disrupt his class schedule just because prospective students happen to be visiting. I’m sorry she didn’t have good experiences, and I’m sorry she wasn’t able to attend classes with more vibrant discussions. But at any college, during the semester, there are going to be some classes where the professor is going to need to lecture straight through, so that students have enough material to discuss in subsequent classes and so they understand how to handle the reading assignments. </p>
<p>As for Smith being 70% lesbian, I think anyone can tell you that that’s a huge overestimate. Tour guides aren’t able to provide statistics on that and shouldn’t be expected to. Smith doesn’t make every student confess their sexual orientation before they’re allowed to register after all, since it’s none of the college’s business. They don’t ask nor do they keep official stats on something so trivial. A few years ago there was a voluntary campus survey that was a project for one of the statistics classes (not an official commissioned study) that did ask students to identify their sexual orientation, which I believe came out to 2/3 identified as straight, and 1/3 was a mix of a variety of identities included lesbian, bisexual, asexual, etc. including some that declined to answer the question. </p>
<p>I am straight, and the only thing I needed a stomach of iron for was dealing with my occasional hangovers. Otherwise I had four very happy years on campus. Not every student though, at any college, is going to be universally happy. People transfer at Smith, just as they do everywhere. Some live off campus for a variety of reasons. </p>
<p>I just don’t see how any of this is an instance of false marketing. I’m sorry Smith didn’t live up to your expectations, but it sounds like it’s probably not a good place for either you or your daughter. I’m sure you’ll be very happy at another college.</p>
<p>The survey undertaken several years ago found that 13% of Smith students identified as lesbian. This is about 40% of the percentage who identify as gay men at that well-known gay hangout, Yale. </p>
<p>But experience will be what it is. And if Smith made your daughter uncomfortable, I hope she will find a better experience at another school. It’s great to live in a country with so many wonderful educational opportunities.</p>
<p>Hmm, maybe we should put that on a t-shirt – Smith College: 60% less gay than Yale.</p>
<p>:-) I kid, of course.</p>