<p>Don't feel like tryimg to define "Success", and I wish I didn't feel like quoting myself, but:
<a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=12616%5B/url%5D">http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=12616</a></p>
<p>Will probably regret chiming in here, but that line quoted in ellemenope's post was what made me react somewhat along the lines that Marite did, but I knew what would happen if I did.</p>
<p>My kids don't go to school so they can boss over anyone; I'm sure that is true of lots of us, no matter where their kids go to school; why is it so often the zing at the end of the "and the CEO went THERE" posts?</p>
<p>To add to that, I do understand that you're offering comfort to people feeling somewhat down right now, but why does it have to come in the form of who gets to fire whom? Why not a description of all the great amenities, opportunities, etc, at a vast range of colleges, or that you can find challenging classmates at lots of places? </p>
<p>Overall question: why does encouragement have to come with cutting someone else down?</p>
<p>I understood the intent of the original post. The post was just an example of a successful, real-life outcome.</p>
<p>If you are not admitted to a "top tier" school, you are not doomed. Attending a top tier school doesn't guarantee you success in life, and it doesn't preclude it either. Attending a non-top tier school is simply another path, perhaps not the one that you would have chosen, but not a dead-end either.</p>
<p>I have been lurking for a while, and I am surprised at the attention paid to the "top tier" schools. Makes me feel positively out of it here on the West Coast, lol! In addition to attending USD (can't imagine what tier it's in...but I LOVED every minute that I was there!), I've been around the block a few times, and hard work, determination, and a good attitude get you a lot further along in the business world than your degree. I've had to explain that to a few kids over the years. If you have a snobbish attitude about where you attended school, sooner or later you'll step on the toes of someone that you wish that you hadn't. (Client's don't bring their degrees into meetings... so you have to watch what you say...) I'm not putting the top tier down, (heck, given the opportunity, I would have gone!), just offering the observation that focusing on them tends to portray the "other" schools in a bad light, when they have a lot to offer to those willing to seek it out. Given the competitiveness of the admissions process for the top tier schools, we as parents are setting the kids up for a lot of disappointment by ignoring the fine qualities of the "other" schools.</p>
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<blockquote> <p>So this guy attended Kansas State University, got into H business school, and now is the CEO of a multi billion corporation. I wonder how many people who got into Tier 1 undergrad schools will be working for this KSU grad?>></p>
<p>I understood the intent of the original post. The post was just an example of a successful, real-life outcome.>></p> </blockquote>
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<p>It's fine to tell high schoolers and their parents not to obsess about HYP and other Tier 1 schools. It's fine to tell them that they can be successful without going to Tier 1 schools. But what exactly is the point of using examples like the story of the CEO followed by the editorial comments pasted above? To tell students who did not get into Tier 1 schools that, all is not lost and that they, too, can look forward to bossing Tier 1 graduates? Is that the definition of success one should be using? </p>
<p>My S will happily work for a KSU grad if he can be spared the headaches of attending to a billion-dollar company to concentrate on what he loves to do. I predict that as long as he does, he won't be rich. But he'll be happy, and I hope, a productive member of society. That's my definition of success.</p>
<p>I brought out the example of the REI CEO because here is a woman- who attended a local U- and is doing a job she is cut out for- she can ride her bike to work- something that she had to hide when she was in banking- she can feel proud about the company she runs.
I judge success- like I feel many on this board do, not by title however- but by doing what you enjoy and are good at. That doesn't require an Ph.d or a brand name school- neither of those things are going to guarantee success in my book and for some may be a hindrance if they feel they need to accept certain positions in order to pay back loans.
We all hope that students find a great school- that challenges them, is affordable and is a pleasant place to spend 4 or 5 years. If that happens to be an Ivy- then more power to them- if it happens to be their parents alma mater - then that is great too- IF they are attending because they fit, not because their parents always envisioned it, or because they feel that they have to , to be successful.</p>
<p>If that happens to be an Ivy- then more power to them-</p>
<p>Emerald:</p>
<p>I agree with everything you say except for this. We considered Harvey Mudd, but as he said about Stanford, my S likes snow. We were also told that UMich and UWisc had terrific math departments, but my S was not sure that he would be comfortable at such large schools. So, although my S will be going to Harvard, it's being an Ivy was not a consideration and his going to there is not a case of "more power to him." It's not too big, it has a great math department, and it comes with snow. :)</p>
<p>what I meant about "more power" is that by feeling like an ivy is the best fit- I am assuming that the student is pretty smart- comfortable in an academic setting that could be intimidating to many people and that because aid is only need based- apparently has the financial backing to pursue a fine education.
Other students may be just as smart- but might not have the financial flexibility to attend an ivy- may feel intimidated by assumptions and expectations of their own or their parents- or as many people- are afraid that they might succeed in that environment and what that would mean about prior assumptions of themselves.
don't know anything about snow however- we haven't had enough this year.</p>
<p>We've had a bit too much snow here. Should have shipped some over your way.<br>
As for financial backing, here are some stats from USN&WR, 2003 edition.
Percentage of students on need-based aid:
Princeton: 43%
Dartmouth: 43%
Harvard: 40%
Columbia 40%
UPenn; 39%
Cornell: 31%
Brown 38%
Yale: 37%.</p>
<p>Another point to consider. The Study of Exceptional Talent (SET) found some evidence that the "smartest" students were not the most successful financially, because they tended to be attracted to research, which is not a lucrative area of employment.</p>
<p>Dogs and reedplay - thanks!</p>
<p>Mini - I always love your posts. I wonder what your S thinks of Emory, which I think only has intermural sports!</p>
<p>jmmom - I always look forward to reading your posts. and, aaahhh, you remembered! [smiley face, which I haven't learned to do]</p>
<p>ellemenope - I can see why that sounded like a dig. I apologize for unfortunate phrasing. I didn't pick up on it, since I don't think working for a CEO is a negative. Most people work for someone, including the CEO. But I can see your interpretation, and just want to assure you I did not mean that. (BTW, let me take this opportunity to tell you yours is one of my favorite screen names.)</p>
<p>I have to agree with Marite on this one. My S has similar interests and he says that a lot of the kids at his high school think he's going to be rich because he's so academically sucessful. He expects to pursue what he loves, knowing that his reward will be his happiness: "I expect I'll be very happy but not rich." He is also a member of SET.</p>
<p>When I was talking about ivys and need- I know that they give a great deal of need based aid- but financial backing is not always from the college
for the students who might have been expecting to have a shot at attending an Ivy- they probably have parents who have been able to give them the resources while growing up to do very well.
So many students on these boards find that their EFC is $20,000 or $40,000 or even more- and that their parents will not or can't help them meet the cost of attending their first choice school.
EFC of course does not mean "easy" financial contribution.
It could even mean 'extreme' financial contribution or"excrutiating"
a school that doesn't offer merit- only offers need- may have a diverse class financially- but it also has parents and guardians who are committed to putting tuition as a priority- which doesn't always happen- some people might want to retire someday....
It also may have a high proportion of students who will take out private loans in the hopes that they will strike gold with the "connections" they hope to make</p>
<p>I think it is important to point out that being able to pursue an education for education's sake, to do what one loves and receive a sufficient renumeration for it to be content is one of life's luxuries. In truth, for many, college attendance is first and foremost a road to financial security and as such it is important to know that you do not have to attend an Ivy or equivalent to experience this in life...or even to experience more than just security.</p>
<p>I have always placed myself firmly in the 'you want to be with the most stimulating peers and professors you can be camp' for undergraduate education and have always cringed when I hear that "only grad school matters" because I want my kids to have the "drinking out of a firehose" intellectual experience they are capable of handling and I think there is intrinsic value in this-- and that the "only grad school matters" approach suggests that college is solely a pre-professional exercise...</p>
<p>As my son considers very disparate academic options, I find myself most often saying to him- "what kinds of kids do you want to eat lunch with, be in class with, what kinds of relationships do you want with your professors...etc". After that, we talk about the range of phenomenal 'real life' experiences one of his school options might provide-- and then I feel challenged to try to apply a "value" to either- since he may not find both in one school. Not easy.</p>
<p>Threads like these aren't so much a celebration of the successes of people who graduate from T2-T4 schools as they are a bashing of prestigious schools.</p>
<p>
[quote]
wonder how many people who got into Tier 1 undergrad schools will be working for this KSU grad?
[/quote]
Who knows? Probably a lot? More importantly, who cares?</p>
<p>
[quote]
...at one time had the unfortunate responsibility of firing one Amerherst grad and one Yale grad.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I'm really glad you were able to goof off in school and can now brag about firing a Yalie.</p>
<p>garland - you use only two phrases regarding CEO's - 1) "bossing people around" and 2) "firing people". Wow. It is a sad commentary on business today if that is what people think a CEO does. </p>
<p>Some of you who interpreted my post in another way than I meant it, seemed to do so because you appear to think that working for a CEO is a negative! The assumption was made that it was a put down, a dig, to say others were working for someone else. I sure don't assume that, and I don't know why anyone would. Why on earth do you assume that? Maybe we need to do a little encouraging of the parents on this board!</p>
<p>OK successful people who did not attend top tier schools:</p>
<p>Lyndon Johnson - Southwest texas State teachers College
Dan Rather - Sam Houston State
Steve Jobs - one semester at Reed College
Jim Clark - Netscape founder University of New Orleans
Michael Moore - University of Michigan Flint.
Bill O'Reily - Marist College
Jim Henson - University of Maryland
O. Temitope Folarin - Moorehouse Coolege and 2004 Rhodes Scholar
Clarence Thomas - Holy Cross
LINDA B. BUCK - University of Washington 2004 Nobel Prize in Medicine
Toni Morrison - Howard University
Jonas Salk - CCNY</p>
<p>You guys make me feel young again. You have taken me back to my head band and poney tail days (belt and suspenders kind of guy even when high). So, we all agree; we don't want our kids to grow up to have money or be the boss. We want them to use their educations to help contemplation of their navel. </p>
<p>Above all they should be poor, for there lies "success."</p>
<p>I tell you what... I'll let your kids have success. I just want mine to be happy.</p>
<p>Let me clarify what I meant by this comment: </p>
<br>
<blockquote> <p>I understood the intent of the original post. The post was just an example of a successful, real-life outcome.>></p> </blockquote>
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<p>He went to Kansas State and now is a CEO. </p>
<p>That's it.</p>
<p>Absolutely no knock on tier one schools. When you pay a compliment to one, it does not follow that you must put down the other.</p>
<p>No one would choose for their child to be unhappy.</p>
<p>Success has been such a moving target for me. As a student and an activist I wanted to be a player on the world stage. As a young attorney ,I wanted to make waves across the state. As a father I wanted to protect my child from all the world's evils and ills. Now I just want to get my kid into and out of a college that she likes and that maybe I can afford.</p>