<p>gah. my test scores are low for caltech. 760 math 2 and 720 physics. Also I have like 2 B's in math/science courses. I have tons of research though...national/international awards and such. so my passion should show through....</p>
<p>tapedDuck -- Passion is not necessarily about how much you did. That's very useful to be able to show admissions committees that you care, but you've passed that point successfully. </p>
<p>To decide whether you're passionate enough "really", introspection is required. I think if you really are passionate, you know it deep down, as Mike said. But I don't take your post as a clear indication that you don't know it. Just perhaps you are not sure how much "knowing" is enough in the Caltech context.</p>
<p>I would say you are passionate about a field if you feel that this field has become part of your intellectual values and your personality. (I don't mean THE MAIN part. Don't freak out. But just a quite important part of how you define yourself.) Do you get really excited about it? Could you do well in a debate in which you were supposed to argue that (e.g.) math is really one of the noblest things accessible to the human intellect and spirit? Do you occasionally feel that the sheer awesomeness of this subject you intend to study (or whichever subject you have felt most strongly about) is not expressible in words? Would you be willing to explain why what you want to do is cool to an initially hostile audience, and do you think you could make some headway in convincing them?</p>
<p>You don't have to answer yes to all of these questions, but if your reaction is "eww, that's all pretty weird", then run away from Caltech as fast as you can. If your reaction is closer to "wow, somebody understands me," then Caltech may be the right place for you. </p>
<p>If your reaction is "hmm, it would be cool to feel some of that, but it's just not happened for me, and I don't know that I've gotten deep enough to get any of those feelings," then this is the hardest case. Many people who end up in the first (passionate) category were initially in this one (because passion takes a while to incubate). But many people who felt like this never end up getting fired up. So the safe course of action is not to go to Caltech. But you might alternatively respond by reading and studying and thinking NOW about whatever has come closest to exciting you this way to see whether you feel seeds of any of this happening. If your best efforts to fan the flame result in nothing, it's probably not there. Incidentally, it's not like this is a bad thing. A deep commitment to science creates some problems in life and plenty of wonderful lives are lived without it. It's all about what works for you.</p>
<p>By the way, Caltech has plenty of people who don't have the passion that this message is intended to diagnose. But for the most part, I would say they don't have happy academic experiences.</p>
<p>I read your post many times and I'm still digesting it...</p>
<p>"Do you occasionally feel that the sheer awesomeness of this subject you intend to study (or whichever subject you have felt most strongly about) is not expressible in words?"</p>
<p>I have no doubt in my mind that I am passionate about science and the answer to the above question for me is definitely 'YES'. But, that's the problem; I can't express it in words... and I need to for my applications!</p>
<p>aurona,</p>
<p>If you've already been admitted into Caltech, then don't sweat it. You being admitted into Caltech means that a Caltech student and professor read your application and decided that you'd be a good fit for Caltech. If you decide to attend Caltech, you'll very quickly discover that nobody really cares about what your high school GPA was, or what your SAT scores were. Your high school competitions will be more useful for the crazy stories about what you and your friends did on the way to, or after, the competitions than about the scores you got.</p>
<p>In essence, relax, and if you're not already decided, come to prefrosh weekend and just enjoy yourself.</p>
<p>coolphreak,</p>
<p>Your math score is fine. Your physics score is a little low, but if you've got tons of awards/research, you'll be fine. Also, if you've got two Bs in math/science courses, I'd imagine this would be fine as long as you got As in later courses (or had a <em>good reason</em> for the Bs). Good luck!</p>
<p>Thank you Michael Woods for this thread. I submited my Caltech application a few days ago and I was planning to start a new "chance me" thread. No need to do this now..
However there are a few points that still remain unclear to me.
What can you tell about diversity at Caltech ? Is it true Caltech really doesn't care about diversity ? Yesterday I saw some photos of Caltech students and I noticed 75% of them were Asians. What are the chances of an applicant from an underrepresented country (let's say in Eastern Europe) if he/she really loves math/science, to be accepted at Caltech ?</p>
<p>Wow. I was accepted EA at Caltech and...after reading that, I now have the sudden urge to officially call myself part of Caltech class of 2012. Is everyone at Caltech really like that? At first I thought people were like that at my school, but as it turns out, the only motivation most people had was to get into college. </p>
<p>In any case, as I read, I no longer wondered why Caltech accepted me. I fit...under every criteria (Or, well, I wasn't on any international team, YET!). Not quite old mentioned that they use Apostol (im guessing vol 1?) @ Caltech for Calc 1, which was my texbook for BC+ Calc sophomore year. I was a USAPhO semifinalist last year, and only because I taught myself rotational dynamics. Most importantly, however, is that I love physics =P.</p>
<p>Great Post!</p>
<p>Hie! I am new around here. Guess I am pretty much lost!!
I am applying to Caltech too. I am an international student and I don't know, after reading these posts I don't know if I am heading for the right direction. My academics are pretty good and my math and physics grades are good as well....but I am not sure about my sat scores...I jus got 530 in CR in my SAT1....670 in Writing and 780 in Math...for SATII I got 750 in math2,740 in math1 and 770 in phy......never really participated in any olympiad in any level but ya been involved in the math club at school.....do i fit in Caltech????I really am not being able to judge....I think i do but now i am not sure....</p>
<p>Is courses in Caltech that hard????Heard about them but never given it a second thought.....</p>
<p>Ben and Michael, THANK YOU so much for the responses. I feel a lot better about Caltech now, and I no longer think they accepted me by accident!</p>
<p>
[quote]
There's basically not a single high school math or science class in the nation that the average Caltech student couldn't get an A in.
[/quote]
you'd be surprised. i kno some (asian male) kid in my school who had to drop out of AP Calc get into caltech. he didn't end up going.</p>
<p>oh and BTW, it's not like this in other schools =) just Caltech</p>
<p>Hey Guys</p>
<p>I see a lot of these notations USAMO, USXO, etc etc..
I think they represent different maths competitions within US, but can any one explain all of them to me??
Secondly, what would the top 10 of the whole national olympiad in maths in a small country like Holland (18 millions people?) be equivalent to? is the size of the country taken into account?
In Holland, 6 people from these top 10 will be selected for the International Maths Olympiad.</p>
<p>well probably not the same as, say, top 10 in china or something, but nevertheless you can't get any higher :0 </p>
<p>usamo is the math competition, it's a 2-day 9-hour 6-question proof/essay test. about the top 500 scorers on the AMC+AIME (two competitions before the USAMO) take it.</p>
<p>usapho is for physics
usnco is for chem
and usabo is for bio</p>
<p>usually the hardest is physics, bio then chem but math pwns them all</p>
<p>=) nicely written! So I read that Caltech has its students look at apps too--if that's true, how does that process go? Does anyone have any personal experience with that? I'm just curious.</p>
<p>i know that a decent GPA is enough for Caltech, but seeing that Caltech is such a math/science oriented school, do they want to see most, if not all As in math and science?
...because my Bs were all in math and english :( I still have a good GPA, but just wasn't sure if it matter what subject I got the B in</p>
<p>I once emailed Ben Golub a year back about the same thing, and the answer I go was that the grades in math and science classes were very important.</p>
<p>However, one B won't kill you, as long as you show math/science interest in some other way. </p>
<p>Of course, I'm not on the committee, so my words may not be totally right.</p>
<p>I'm sure there'll be people on this forum who're on the committee, if not this year then years before.</p>
<p>Usually, I believe it's sophomores and up who volunteer to be on the admissions committee, which is composed of several students, faculty, and admissions officers. And from what people tell me they do respect the students' opinions in such matters.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Yesterday I saw some photos of Caltech students and I noticed 75% of them were Asians. What are the chances of an applicant from an underrepresented country (let's say in Eastern Europe) if he/she really loves math/science, to be accepted at Caltech?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Baphomet,</p>
<p>Your question about diversity made me laugh. :) I am a Caltech student. I'm not sure where you got the pictures, but my guess is that they depict informal social groups that might have formed because the students share common interests, nationalities, or personalities. As a whole and within each Hovse, there is plenty of ethnic diversity. Despite what the photos you found may suggest, techers do not tend to segregate: there's lots of interaction between races, creeds, and nationalities. You will not be excluded here because you're not Asian, or anything else for that matter.</p>
<p>Being from Eastern Europe will probably neither help nor hurt your chances. (I personally know about a dozen undergrads from Eastern Europe; I'm sure there are more.) Your academic qualifications are the important thing.</p>
<p>As has been mentioned before, google, the whole issue is whether you'll be able to handle classes at Caltech. Getting a B in an average high school math class brings into serious question whether you would be able to pass math classes at Caltech. As Mike said, "There's basically not a single high school math or science class in the nation that the average Caltech student couldn't get an A in." Of course, there's lots of other things that are considered, so that one B may be overlooked depending on the rest of your application.</p>
<p>I also just wanted to say that I agree with Mike's original post. It sounds a lot like what I envision the typical Caltech student as and it's the type of student that I would expect to get into Caltech. I feel that I personally fit very well with the description. The thing is, if you don't fit Mike's description, then chances are you won't be successful here. (I'm sure there are people who don't fit the description exactly and could still be very successful, but you probably know who you are.) By successful, I don't mean just that you can do well in your classes, which is what the high GPA, SAT, etc. are for, but that you are also happy being here, which is what the extraordinary passion for science/math is for. I've seen people come here, who probably match Mike's description fairly closely as they did get in, and then end up not doing well here for whatever reason and it's not pretty. So, if you don't get in, realize that it's probably for the better. As a final note, most of us are not actually involved in admissions, so all we really know are what kind of students are actually at Caltech. Because of this, I think that applicants should really read that original post and judge for themselves about their chances.</p>
<p>ya dLo I think that way too, to be honest. Even if by some chance I can get in , it doesn't mean that I will be successful and graduate with good grades for medical school (that's where I ultimately want to go).</p>
<p>But applicaions are already in, so I guess now all I can do is sit back and see what happens. :P</p>
<p>Ah I see. Well if the applications are already in, then don't worry about it. There's nothing you can do now, and the decision will be what it is.</p>
<p>Hi Google,</p>
<p>Are you sure Caltech is where you want to go, if medical school is in your future? I don't say that just because it's hard to get good grades here. You might be better off at a university that has a medical school: you could volunteer in the associated hospital during the year, take coursework in pathology, histology and biomedical science, and learn from real MDs. Those opportunities aren't available/feasible here at Tech. We have a course available this year in A&P, but it is being taught by a Caltech graduate and current medical resident who is about to finish his studies and leave, so it's unclear whether the course will be taught at all in future years. Does it bother you that you would have so little coursework directly relevant to medicine?</p>
<p>I'm sure you've put a lot of thought into your decision already. As you may have learned, we do send several students on to med school each year, so our premed program cannot be grossly inadequate. You may not know, however, that those students have usually sought opportunities at other campuses, during the summers or even during the year, to fill the deficits in our program. Some have gone so far as to use study abroad in order to take more medically-relevant bio courses. It doesn't have to be that hard to get a decent premed preparation.</p>