<p>Medical school admission requirements include: one year biology with lab; two years chemistry with lab (full year courses in general (or inorganic) and organic chemistry); one year physics; one year of calculus (math); one year expository writing; one course in biochemistry is strongly encouraged. </p>
<p>Though most students in med school had biology/ chemistry related undergrad majors, some students had degrees in engineering, math and music. People with engineering and math degree (or very good in those areas) and write well /good in English frequently stand out in med school (or law school). </p>
<p>Even though most people come to Caltech for their undergrad education decide not to go to med school, Caltech by no means is deficient in prep students for medical school.</p>
<p>ya I thought about the whole med school deal when I was deciding whether to apply for Caltech or not, but since my dad works there, I get free tuition, so I thought it was worth giving it a try. </p>
<p>but again, applications are in and I can't even be sure that I can get in to Caltech. Plus things can change by May so I am really just going to see what schools I get into and how I like each of them :)</p>
<p>thanks a lot for the info though guys!! :)</p>
<p>btw what do you guys think of Liberal Arts College such as Amherst and Williams for med school?</p>
<p>It's true that Caltech is by no means deficient in premeds. Unfortunately, many students who consider themselves premeds, well, aren't. Last year I watched half-a-dozen brilliant friends get rejected from med school. Many had three years of research experience and publications - they would have been shoo-ins at the best graduate schools in their fields.</p>
<p>The problem seems to be a lack of clinical experience and normal premed coursework. Caltech hosts a short summer program through a local hospital, but that only accounts for half of one summer. (Enrolling in that program pretty much prevents students from getting a summer job, so even some pre-meds don't do it.) We have a "Health Advocate" program where students receive first responder training, but there isn't enough room for all of the premeds (and first responder training basically qualifies you to work the first aid booth at the Rose Parade). Students that don't or can't get extra preparation on their own (like working nights as an EMT) are hard off in the admissions process, because med schools think they don't know what they're getting themselves into or haven't demonstrated any commitment to that choice.</p>
<p>It's true that some med schools require one year of biology with lab, with biochemistry strongly recommended. That's the truth, but not the whole truth. Med school admissions is highly competitive, and to get in, you have to match the admitted students in "relevant" preparation - art major or not. The best way to figure out what prep you really need is to ask admitted students at your choice med school what they did.</p>
<p>Google, I think that LACs might have similar problems to Caltech in terms of limited course offerings and a tendency for general institute requirements in unrelated fields to eat up your time. However, you should check what sorts of pre-med programs they offer and the relative success of their med school applicants. Have you asked about it on the forums for those schools?</p>
<p>A few undergrad schools have high admission rate to med schools. Among them are Johns Hopkins, Harvard, Duke, Emory, U of Southern California, Brown and a few more. High MCAT scores can generally override whichever undergrad you went. Some state flagships have 7-year BS/MD program and guaranteed med school admission to its own med school without MCAT. Usually students in a state flagship 7-year program are those qualified for ivies and other elite schools but decide to take advantage of the free ride for undergrad.</p>
<p>Snowcapk, did your friends get good MCAT scores? Good MCAT scores are fundamentally important if you graduate from Caltech. Applying for med schools is like applying for colleges, you need apply for multiple schools (6-8 schools), not all in the elite range. If your plan is to practice medicine, not research, any med school can get you there. If you want to get into a competitive residency (not necessarily in the brand name of the residency program but the specialty), you need to stay top in your medical school class (your grades in med school and top scores in your national board tests).</p>
<p>Medicine takes hard and long way. Not only it requires so many years of schooling, residency and fellowship(s), endless boards and in service tests every year till you finally finishes your subspecialty boards in the fellowship you are trained, the never ending government policy changes, ever deceasing reimbursement from insurance companies and Medicare, and the litigation environment make medical career very difficult today. Physicians used to want their children to continue in medicine. That trend is changing.</p>
<p>Yes, the friends I have in mind did get good MCAT scores, certainly within the acceptance range at the schools where they applied. This really demonstrates my point about the importance of extensive clinical experience and transcending the listed coursework requirements. Just as the GRE doesn't test all of the math that a physics grad applicant should know, the MCAT doesn't test all of the material that a competitive med school applicant should know. Low scores on either test are a very bad sign, because they mean that the student doesn't know the bare minimum required.</p>
<p>Based on my friends' experiences, 6-8 med schools is very conservative. (Personally, I'm not and haven't ever been a premed, although I know many of them through my classes, work, and dorm.) The ones I have in mind applied to 20+ schools. There are several "stages" where the application can be rejected, so it pays to start out with many schools.</p>
<p>It's true that any med school can get you into medical practice, but I have heard that, realistically, you can only get work/residency positions that are less than or as desirable as your med school. I have heard/witnessed similar things about the transition from grad school to postdoc and faculty positions, so I'm inclined to believe it. That's probably why students who don't get offers from very good schools tend to cut their losses and reapply the next year, rather than go to a lower-ranked school.</p>
<p>Hmm I have a question about International Olympiad thingie ;) USA doesn't compete in IAO (International Astronomy Olympiad) so I was wondering, does the fact that I was on my national team for it score anything? Or they don't really care, because they have not yet accepted it like an Olympiad?</p>
<p>And another thing, do you know about that whole Einstein and World Year of Physics 2005 thing? There was that international competition "Physics Talent Search" and every country would get their "ambassador" of physics based on the persons physics activities and some research etc.. I think there was round 100-150 ambassadors in the whole world in the end... I was one of the ambassadors for my country, so does that mean anything to them either?</p>
<p>So if someone could help me with these two things, thanx aaaaaaaaaa lot :)))</p>
<p>Foo,
The IAO and "ambassador" things sound prestigious, but I confess I've never heard of either one. Their impressiveness increases, of course, with the reputation/size of your country. If I were on an adcomm and an applicant claimed to have received international awards that I'd never heard of, I would like to have contact info (does anyone make this stuff up out of whole cloth?) as well as a clear description of the difficulty level, or I might be forced to give that award less weight in the decision than it truly deserves. Presumably the prof that organized these competitions for you is a recommender? S/He likely addressed it in the rec letter.</p>
<p>i've been to the Physics Talent Search for the World Year of Physics 2005 too ! :) and I did not forget to mention this at my app. In my opinion, since this is an international activity it will help our applications. However other people here at cc can tell better.</p>
<p>IAO and that Physics Talent Search both sound quite prestigious (after a quick Google search) and if I were you, I would definitely include information about them, and your participation in them, on your applications.</p>
<p>Clearly, there's other factors that are taken into account for Caltech acceptances than just school ranking. However, if 7 people from one school were accepted into Caltech in the same year, that's indicative of a <em>VERY</em> strong high school. I would say that the average strong public school probably gets an average of 1-2 Caltech acceptances every year. 7 in one year indicates either an incredibly lucky year at a mediocre/good school, or a very, very strong school math and science program (and many very dedicated students). Naturally, the number of acceptances (and the class rankings for those accepted students) will vary at such schools. My original post was oriented towards most of the schools in the nation, and the numbers will vary depending on the quality of the school (top 10 or top 20 ranking may be average for very strong schools like your daughter's, while at mediocre schools, you may have to be the #1). Of course, this all also varies on an individual basis, as there are always some students who may not have the GPA of others, but have some other balancing factor that gets them an acceptance letter (after all, Caltech doesn't have a 100% rate of students in the top 10% of their high school class).</p>
<p>Thank you so much for these posts. CalTech is my top choice and I really want to get in.
I'm interested in science rather than math but more of the way of nuclear science because I'm interested in the Chernobyl accident and want to do something about it. Even if I can't I want to study that subject so that things like that dont happen again. I guess you could say that Chernobyl accident is my passion. I'm really concerned about it and want to go to Belarus to help people out. Anyways, I'm taking AP Bio and AP Calc and have A's in all my science and math classes. I'm still a junior by the way. I swim competative, but I'm not going to swim for college. (I'm good enough to go to state competitions, which I think is going to help me? I would like some input.) I didnt too good in PSAt (201) but I think I'll do much better in SATs and SATII. But I dont have that club activity. Our school is not competatitve like that. Do you have any advices for me? Thank You!</p>
<p>wolfnoir, could you explain more about your interest in the Chernobyl accident and aftermath? You've probably heard that they're building a new containment structure around the reactor - once that's done (3 yrs.?), how would you plan to use a background in nuclear science to do something about the Chernobyl accident? Are you sure you've chosen the right background for someone interested in radiation containment? When you say you want "to go to Belarus and help people out," do you mean from a medical standpoint? Sorry, but I don't get it.</p>
<p>well i guess it's because I'm not very sure yet either sorry. as for going to Belarus I want to volunteer and help taking care of children and stuff like that. I think I'm interested in nuclear science and radiation and stuff like that but I'm not sure what it's really called. I've done some (some!) research but I couldn't fins much. Also, I'm taking chemistry but my teacher really don't know anything so she can't help me. I'm just really into the Chernobyl situation as many people are interested in like starvation in Dalfur and stuff like that. It's just that it makes me so sad that only 10 to 15 percent of the children born are healthy and all the rest die or have serious mutations. I want to study radiation and stuff like that so that I can either take part in cleaning up after this disaster or or making sure that something like that doesn't happen again, because I heard that when they made the reactors it was because they had no other ways to get power because they were so poor and the reason for the meltdown was because they didnt really know all about the reactors but they built it because they desperately needed energy. So I want to make sure that the next time they build it that we know everything about it and it works perfectly. Does that make sense? I guess I just guessed on too many things on my last post. But I don't have a lot of sources and even on the internet there are not a lot of reliable information. I would like any kind of input. Thank you.</p>
<p>Umm, guys, this is sort of a little mistake I caught on your posts. Two people said that Chernobyl is in "Belarus". Why would you want to go to Belarus when the real incident happened in "Ukraine". So would you have a medical standpoint in a different country? Chernobyl is in Ukraine. And it would also be nice to help people in Belarus.</p>
<p>In reply to aurona, it's not "bad" that chances threads come up-- I think Mike's main point was that the advice there isn't going to be that much more helpful than what you can deduce from the general things we've said in this thread. But I think often people have unusual circumstances or just want to talk about their application and there's nothing wrong with that -- let a thousand flowers bloom.</p>
<p>TAD, Chernobyl is near the border of Ukraine and Belarus. Evacuees had to be sent somewhere, and I am guessing that some portion of them ended up in Belarus. I once saw the fallout from Chernobyl quoted as spreading "as far as Belarus," but I would guess that Belarus is just far enough from the contaminated area that many refugees would choose to settle there. Maybe something like better healthcare in Belarus, disillusionment with their country following this major ----up, &c. could have been a driving factor in their emigration. Finally, it might be that the majority of victims today live well outside the zone of evacuation (e.g. in Belarus), where people considered themselves safe and didn't relocate, but experienced ill effects due to prolonged (~2 decades) low-level exposure. Or perhaps it's the OP's preference to treat the ill in that country because Russian is an official language there (easy to learn in the States, whereas Ukrainian is not) or for cultural/sociopolitical reasons.</p>