For computer engineering: USC versus Berkeley

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of Southern California
21

<p>I’m someone deciding between Cal and Berk, but for CS. </p>

<p>My dad’s an SC alum, so I’ve spent plenty of time around USC for various events. Am I the only one who doesn’t feel like it’s so horrible? I mean, no the location isn’t the greatest. It’s not Palo Alto or Westwood, but between campus housing and campus it doesn’t feel like there’s much of a problem. Yeah, in the dark, late at night there’s parts of LA I wouldn’t want to be around alone, and other parts I wouldn’t want to be around at all - but I don’t think this is different from about 90% of the cities you live in. Having grown up around SC, I definitely have the advantage of knowing the area, and it IS something I would pay attention to if I were a freshman from somewhere else. But, the same thing applies for myself if I go to Berkley. See this for some crime statistics in comparison:
[Crime</a> at USC: Crime at USC: A Statistical Analysis](<a href=“http://crimeatusc.blogspot.com/2009/05/crime-at-usc-statistical-analysis.html]Crime”>http://crimeatusc.blogspot.com/2009/05/crime-at-usc-statistical-analysis.html)</p>

<p>It’s not like a smaller college where kids have left their laptops on the lawn and come back to them, but I also feel like some of it is overblown. Nowhere is crime ever going to be completely eliminated - and as long as you’re smart, you should be fine. </p>

<p>Now as far as other issues go - like cost, and like public transport (where the bay area rocks!) It’s another matter. </p>

<p>For UCBGrad - did you or other students spend much time in SF? And for ViterbiStudent are day trips to the Grove / Santa Monica / Hollywood /etc common for students? I guess a lot depends on the schedule you have. But exploring is fun! I’ve grown up near LA and still want to explore! :)</p>

22

<p>^ I agree that both USC and Berkeley have their urban problems and you need to be a little more cautious at night. It’s just common street smarts. However, my feeling is that Berkeley is more of a student-oriented and pedestrian friendly city vs. Exposition Park.</p>

<p>I went into SF maybe a few times per semester.</p>

23

<p>Thanks! Good to know. :slight_smile: I’ll be heading up soon to check out Cal and I’d like to explore a bit.</p>

24

<p>Alright guys. I’m trying to make a case for USC right now, because my dad wants me to go to UVA. Berkeley is completely out of the question right now; while it has the prestige and academics, it’s also incredibly expensive relative to UVA and USC. It’s not money we’re eager to shell out so easily. It’s nice that I got in, I guess.</p>

<p>The central dilemma right now is between UVA SEAS and USC Viterbi. I can go to UVA SEAS without taking any loans, as my parents have the money to pay for all four years. In contrast, I would need anywhere from $20,000 to $30,000 in subsidized and unsubsidized Stafford loans over the entire four year period.</p>

<p>The thing is, very tersely, USC is where I want to go. It’s where I want to be. It’s situated in Los Angeles; it’s orders of magnitude closer to Silicon Valley than UVA; it has a pretty great engineering school. I’m pretty tired of Virginia, and having a change of setting to California would be a godsend. I visited the UVA campus about a month ago and I absolutely hated the place.</p>

<p>Is USC worth it?</p>

25

<p>^ Um, yes. If it’s where you want to go, don’t let your parents bully you! Hearing what you said about your parents guilt-tripping you into going to the closer school was AWFUL! It’s YOUR life, YOUR education. You should go where you will be happiest.</p>

<p>My boyfriend is from Philadelphia. He is the only one of his siblings who didn’t go to an East Coast school. (His sister goes to UVA, actually…) He chose USC because it was the best for what he wanted to do and he LOVED it. Of course, his mom wasn’t thrilled that he went there and that he still lives in LA – but he has a great job and is happy and is 100% self-supported a year after graduating. He still visits home, he is still close to his family, the world didn’t explode, etc…</p>

<p>I tell that story only as an example to show that PLENTY of students move away from home to go to school. It’s normal and natural. Picking a college is a decision you and you alone will have to live with. Why go somewhere you don’t like only to make your family happy?</p>

<p>My dad didn’t want me to go to USC. Once he came to campus, though, he got over it very quickly.</p>

<p>And regarding loans – that’s a VERY low amount. I know people who took $50,000 in loans each year and left with $200,000 in debt. $20,000 is a really reasonable amount!</p>

26

<p>“The thing is, very tersely, USC is where I want to go. It’s where I want to be. It’s situated in Los Angeles; it’s orders of magnitude closer to Silicon Valley than UVA; it has a pretty great engineering school. I’m pretty tired of Virginia, and having a change of setting to California would be a godsend. I visited the UVA campus about a month ago and I absolutely hated the place.”
then USC is where you should go. Period.
USC is definitely worth 20 K in loans over 4 years. In addition, you will feel like an IDIOT around other students if your parents/ family visit you once a month at college[ sorry to be harsh, but kids get looks if their parents even CALL too often, let alone visit!!] I will have visited USC twice- once on move in day and next month at DS’s Graduation. Anymore than that would have been highly unwelcome .Now is the time to snuff out that really bad idea. And the best way to do it is to go to USC. College is a time for kids to cut the apron strings to their parents, and visa versa. So go to USC- you won’t regret it.</p>

27

<p>

</p>

<p>This isn’t true, really. If your parents baby you, then yes it may look weird. But I was lucky enough that my family was a 5-6hr car ride away and they came to Parent’s Weekend, to move me in and maybe once or twice during Spring Break. My friends LOVED when my family came because it meant FREE DINNER!</p>

<p>I just don’t want anyone to feel bad if they want to/are planning on having family visit. I am really happy my parents came to USC more than once/twice because it made them feel like part of the Trojan Family as much as I did/do. I do think there’s a thing as “too much visiting…” but if your family comes occasionally (like for Parent Weekend) I would encourage that!</p>

28

<p>Ishanz, my son just made a similar decision, UNC fully paid by us, or USC where he would take his loans, work for his books and spending money and even contribute to tuition. He made the choice to go to USC, where his heart was. BTW- husband and I are UVA grads but we didn’t think paying out of state tuition for UVA was a good idea when UNC is just as good. Go with your heart!</p>

29

<p>I am a USC parent of 2 students, east coast based. My husband and I love visiting campus!
We have gone to every parent weekend and many football games. We sponsored a USC event for parents in the Washington DC metro area and 80 parents from as far away as North Carolina and Philadelphia attended. Reps from USC helped to coordinate the event. I feel that one of the bonuses of a USC education for our family was the ability to share in the Trojan experience. I have also attended outstanding orchestra and choral student concerts as well as fraternity events. Several parents from the east coast serve on the Parent Board.</p>

30

<p>Well naturally, when I revived the idea of myself going to USC in front of my dad, he got really angry. He called me selfish, heartless, and a wonderful plethora of swear words and whatnot. He told me that by continuing to consider USC, I exhibit no signs of care for him, my mom, and my little sister. Pretty much, he’s going to begrudge me and act cranky until I firmly choose UVA over USC.</p>

<p>But anyway, he got into contact with one of his coworkers yesterday, asking about the situation with health insurance if I move to California. The conversation segued into one about how I should attend UVA over USC. His coworker is actually a really smart guy; he attended Georgetown, choosing the place over other colleges like UPenn. He gave me a short list of reasons on why I should attend UVA and not USC. Firstly, he said that the California government is spiraling downward with no guarantee of its future; choosing to move there now in the midst of this situation would be unwise. Secondly, he said that due to the budget problems and outsourcing, Silicon Valley jobs would be more difficult to attain for in-country graduates; in contrast, the Washington, D.C. “corridor” is not plagued by this problem. Thirdly, he insisted that because I grew up in Northern Virginia, going to UVA would provide me with immediate access to a network of family and high school friends, a network that would not exist in California. Fourthly, he made the opinion that, when I could go to UVA without accumulating any debt, accruing $20k-30k of debt by going to USC would be a poor choice that would disadvantage me following graduation. And fifthly, he had the CEO of “some major DC company” sitting beside him at the time of the conversation; he asked the CEO if he would rather hire a UVA graduate or a USC graduate, provided all other credentials were identical; the CEO, after additional explication of the situation, replied “UVA.”</p>

<p>I also need to ask this: Would accumulating this kind of debt significantly disadvantage me following my attainment of the four-year degree? Would it not greatly affect my financial considerations if I choose to attend graduate school immediately following the completion of my undergraduate education? Or do typical engineers get a job out of college and settle somewhat before pursuing further graduate education? Really, how much is $30,000 of debt?</p>

<p>I don’t know. This is an insanely difficult choice. There’s so many factors in play. It sucks.</p>

31

<p>This doesn’t sound like a tough decision at all. Where do you want to go to school? If your dad has to verbally abuse you to pick UVA, doesn’t that show that you don’t really want to go?</p>

<p>I’m going to be graduating with about 20-30k worth of debt. I’m not too worried about it, especially because I got an internship this summer that will hopefully turn into a job and career once I graduate. As long as I’m working then the debt is no biggie.</p>

<p>Obviously UVA will have the advantage with companies and whatnot close to the area: people tend to like and prefer what they are familiar with.</p>

<p>Here’s a point-by-point rebuttal of your dad’s coworker’s points.</p>

<p>1: “the California government is spiraling downward with no guarantee of its future”</p>

<p>The California government has little to nothing to do with USC. USC is not funded by the California state government. And it’s not like going to USC forces you to stay in California for the rest of your life.</p>

<p>2: 'due to the budget problems and outsourcing, Silicon Valley jobs would be more difficult to attain for in-country graduates; in contrast, the Washington, D.C. “corridor” is not plagued by this problem"</p>

<p>This argument is meaningless without numbers to back it up. Even assuming it’s true though, how many successful silicon valley companies can you name? Now, how many DC corridor companies can you name? Finally, two magic words for you: defense contractors. These jobs will never be outsourced, and Southern California just happens to be a hotbed of defense work.</p>

<p>3: " because I grew up in Northern Virginia, going to UVA would provide me with immediate access to a network of family and high school friends, a network that would not exist in California."</p>

<p>You already have this network of high school and family friends. Honestly though, high school friends aren’t gonna do much for you. And if your family ditches you because you went across the country to go to school, you’ve got bigger problems. College is the real time to form meaningful connections, make friends, and create your own personal network. And this is one thing USC excels at. First of all, the Trojan Family prides itself on making and maintaining connections between USC alumni, no matter where you go or what you do. Obviously it’ll be stronger the closer you are to California, but I’m here in London this semester studying abroad and I’ve done events with the alumni club here, with pretty good turnouts.</p>

<p>4: “when I could go to UVA without accumulating any debt, accruing $20k-30k of debt by going to USC would be a poor choice that would disadvantage me following graduation.”</p>

<p>Of course debt is going to disadvantage you. That doesn’t mean it’s a avoid-at-all-costs sort of things though. You are investing in your future, and the question you have to answer is “is a USC education worth the extra money I will spend to get it?” Again, i’m not too worried about my debt. As long as I’ve got a job, then it will be no problem.</p>

<p>5: “he asked the CEO if he would rather hire a UVA graduate or a USC graduate, provided all other credentials were identical; the CEO, after additional explication of the situation, replied “UVA.””</p>

<p>Again, people will prefer what they are familiar with. Did you ask for specifics? Assuming all other things were equal, he is simply going off the perceived prestige and name recognition. Well two (or many more) can play at that game. Go ask bigshot CEOs in California which one they’d hire. Then ask more people from around the country and around the world. Name recognition and perceived prestige is notoriously slow to change. USC as a university has changed significantly over the past 20 years, but we’ve still got the old stereotype in the public’s eye. Nothing to be done about it though, we just keep improving ourselves and showing people the great things we accomplish.</p>

<p>Regarding debt and grad school: USC has a program called the Progressive Degree Program where you continue on to grad school at USC and earn a master’s degree in just one year, making it 5 years total to get a Master’s degree. I’m taking advantage of this program for the cost and time savings, plus I love the school and don’t see myself needing to go to grad school anywhere else. Of course you may have different thoughts, but a USC undergrad education will be rigorous and respected enough to get you into whatever higher academic institution you want. I know a guy who was wooed by MIT to get a doctorate there, but he turned them down and instead went to Cambridge (UK) to do it.</p>

<p>Of course, there are also people who go out and work for a few years before doing a master’s. Most of the time they only take one or two classes a semester, and their workplace covers the cost of tuition. This is a good option too, but what’s even better is if you can get an internship, and convince them to pay for you to finish out your schooling straight through, then go work for them. That’s my plan.</p>

<p>Finally, just a reminder: this is your choice. Don’t let your parents or anyone else bully you into a decision that you will have to take the consequences of.</p>

32

<p>I’m so sorry your father is bullying you to choose UVA. I know where you’re coming from – my dad also bullied me to attend the college that was WALKING DISTANCE from my childhood home. Eventually, he got over it when he came to USC the first time.</p>

<p>There are so many lies and garbage in that “helpful discussion” you had with your father’s friend. I’m guessing your dad coached him. </p>

<p>

</p>

<p>Obviously this guy isn’t as smart as you think. USC and the California government have NOTHING to do with one another. He is obviously so misguided that he thinks USC is a UC or Cal State college. It’s laughable. What a goon.</p>

<p>Also “spiraling downward with no guarantee of its future”? I have no idea what he’s trying to point out – maybe he’s afraid of illegal immigrants? Is he a conservative and afraid of gays getting married? (Because those are our hotbed issues right now.) </p>

<p>Seriously, I’m at a loss for words on this one. This guy is, to put it nicely, an absolute moron. I’ve lived in California my entire life and what the government is doing has little effect on me because I’m not a public school student, I’m not on government assistance and I’m a straight, legal citizen. Woo, California! </p>

<p>

</p>

<p>I like to think I actually can speak to this because I am a Silicon Valley native and my mom has worked at a very large tech company in Palo Alto for over 25 years. </p>

<p>Budget problems? What budget problems? Last I heard, all the Silicon Valley companies are pulling in huge numbers – Facebook, Google, Apple, Ebay, PayPal, HP…Hello, dude! Wake up! </p>

<p>Also, I know SO MANY of my high school and college friends who now work at the aforementioned companies, so to say they’re not interested in hiring American college grads is an absolute lie. (I’m starting to think this guy hates immigrants.) </p>

<p>And did you know many of these companies have offices all over the country? Nothing can stop you from getting a job at the company of your choice if you’re willing to move.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>Lies. Think of how many colleges are in this area compared to California. Think of how many college grads move to the DC area after graduating looking for jobs. It’s harder to get a job there when you’re young and educated, plain and simple!</p>

<p>

What can your high school friends do for you, dude? You’ll make a whole new network when you go to college, so this is a moot point. And also, I don’t think he’s heard of EMAIL which will keep you in touch with your East Coast network while you’re away. Ugh. </p>

<p>

</p>

<p>How will it disadvantage you? You don’t begin paying loans until 6 months after graduation (plenty of time to get a job) and employers don’t ask about how many student loans you have. This guy is getting on my nerves, here.</p>

<p>I graduated from USC with somewhere between $50,000 to $60,000 in loans; my roommate graduated with $100,000 in loans. We both got great full time jobs less than 6 months after graduating. I guess we both made poor choices! Why were we so dumb?! (Sarcasm…)</p>

<p>Not having debt is just a matter of convenience. Ask anyone across CC and you will find that a large majority of students take out loans. It’s not a rare occurrence and no one will judge you for that. </p>

<p>I would say graduating from USC with $20,000 to $30,000 in debt is the rarity! That’s less than a year’s tuition. It’s a good deal.</p>

<p>Previous poster also stated it, but the 5 year Bachelors/Masters program at Viterbi is great! Most people I know did it in 4.5 years. How could you pass that up?</p>

33

<p>Go to the school you prefer. A USC degree will mean more on the west coast, while a UVA degree will mean more on the east coast. Neither school is so prestigious that you’ll be guaranteed a job after college, though.</p>

<p>I used to work on Wall Street, and when I told people I went to USC, it wasn’t unusual to be met with a blank stare or be asked, “What’s that?” I now work high-tech in the San Francisco/Silicon Valley area, and a UVA degree won’t mean squat here. The pedigree of your school means much less on the west coast than it does on the east coast.</p>

<p>I moved across the country to go to college, and getting away from home was one of the best decisions in my life.</p>

34

<p>

</p>

<p>This is so true. Most people I know have no idea that UVA is a well-regarded school on the East Coast. On the West Coast in the “good” jobs, you’ll usually see (depending on the industry) graduates from USC, UCLA, Cal, UW, Stanford, UC San Diego with a spattering of people from Columbia and similar institutions. </p>

<p>This doesn’t mean you couldn’t eventually return to the East Coast after working in LA for a year or two.</p>

35

<p>I’m going to UVA. My dad doesn’t want me to accumulate the debt. Guess I’ll be stuck in VA for another four years. Still, thanks a lot guys. Wish it could’ve been different.</p>

36

<p>wow i’m sorry… 10k per year is honestly nothing in the long run.</p>

<p>hopefully you’ll end up enjoying it at UVA! best of luck to you.</p>