<p>I'm by no means an expert on this but here is some further information I googled that provides a different point of view. I'll say it again, I'm all for the honor system and do not cheat. But, I'm also a realistic person who knows a little bit about human behavior. </p>
<p>Sanctions for Students Violating University of Virginia Rules and Regulations Regarding Firearms</p>
<p>i think its necessary to reiterate. The honor code isn't "dead." there arn't mass thefts and there isn't massive amounts of cheating. Overall I think University students are pretty honorable people. However, I don't think its the "honor code" that makes students upstanding people - its the fact that people at UVa are educated, and most educated people don't commit petty crimes or cheat. Again, the honor code isn't "dead" in principle, but the honor system in it of itself is broken - and it has nothing to do with single sanction.</p>
<p>My perspective from the outside, as a college student:
I don't think it's dead. I don't think its dying. I think its changing. Think about the Constitution: when it was formed and written, it addressed the issues that were at stake during the time. Equal rights for men, certain freedoms, ect. However, how many admendments have been added to it? 27. My point is that documents, no matter how noble and correct they are at the time of drafting, will always evolve as time goes on.<br>
Do I think there is more cheating today? Not necessarily. There's a common joke on the floor of the guy I usually stay with (who are almost all engineers) that when one asks another for help on an assignment that the others yell "honor code violation!". The students are obviously aware of the code, and abide by it. This brings up the issue of one student "helping" another though: i've seen other students come up to this guy asking for "help", but pretty much are just asking to see his code. Is this cheating? Not necessarily, but it doesn't exactly abide by the original intent of the Code. If they simply copy the code, then yes, it is blatent cheating. But I do think that there is more collaberation on work done, which doesn't break, nor follow, the Code. The students just arn't realizing it, since college these days are driven by schoolwork, partying, and ECs/jobs if they have them. If not, school and partying is all that is in the minds of most UVa students (the two quotes that come to mind are "working for the weekend" and "work hard, party harder")
But like Jags said, there isn't a widespread amount of crime, cheating, ect across Grounds. Then again, my mother taught me that stuff is wrong, so I don't need an Honor Code to know that. I've also seen my friend's RA just leave his door ajar while he's at class or running errands, and nothing ever goes missing he said.<br>
In the end, I think certain aspects of the Code are still very present today (no stealing, committing crimes, lying ect). However, I think student's see a different light on what is and isn't cheating today. One person may think it's harmless help, while another thinks it's blatent cheating. Who's right though? I think rather than an overhaul of the Code, there just needs to be "admendments" added on how to address certain issues. But no, I don't think its dead. I just think it's evolved, and definently isn't the exact same as it was started, but no worse.</p>
<p>Honor is an expectation here and most people I know are extremely dissapointed when something is stolen or someone cheats. We have a Brown communal kitchen and apparently someone stole/ate $20+ worth of food and no one is happy about that. The signs in Clemons, "Watch your laptops - there have been thefts" also really makes me sad. But there are as many good stories here as well (the number of unlocked doors, lost cellphones being returned, etc... Just the other day I left my scarf in the Brown room in Newcomb and when I came back the next day it was still on the bench where I had left it) so it's definitely not dead, and hopefully not headed there.</p>
<p>Current student here.</p>
<p>Honor System- do not cheat, lie or steal.</p>
<p>Lying: eh, what qualifies as lying? If I tell a joke or a prank story, does that constitute a lie?</p>
<p>Stealing: UVa kids are pretty well-off. We don't steal generally. When we want something, we ask our parents for it.</p>
<p>Cheating: A bunch of bright kids all want to get ahead of everyone else in life. what do they do? cheat.</p>
<p>Sad? ya. </p>
<p>Things change.</p>
<p>The Honor Code was established to foster a shared sense of responsibility among students, and it is far from dead. Although there has been substantial controversy over the single sanction, a majority of students still support it (the vote was 50.5% against reforming the single sanction, and the only reason the yes vote got so far was because Hoo's Against Single Sanction? went on a huge mobilization drive, which, sadly, Single Sanction proponents did not match). I don't know about most of you, but I like being able to leave my laptop in Clemons to get dinner and come back to find it still there, or to walk in to my exam and at least have the slight reassurance that my classmates have signed a pledge that holds them both institutionally and morally accountable for their actions. Consider the scenario for a second...you are a first year student taking your very first exam...the situation in and of itself is slightly intimidating, but knowing that you have signed a statement of Honor that you yourself have written, which has the potential to bring about your expulsion if violated does have an overall deterrent effect. If you have the nerve to openly state that you have not cheated and do so anyways, you don't deserve the trust University bestows upon you. Most classes are on the University's grading scale, which means your grade DOES affect how others in the class will do. Times have changed, yet most students will continue tell you they are committed to Honor....the day the System dies is the day we tear the Rotunda down.</p>
<p>oh yeah...on a reassuring note for you alums...the student-teacher trust relationship hasn't changed...many still give take-home on-your-honor exams and assume honesty in their students.</p>
<p>One of the best things I loved about UVA when I was there 10 years ago was honor. One time, I lost my wallet, and another student found it, searched for me, and gave me my wallet back with all the money and credit cards intact.</p>
<p>I remember another time I was with my friend from NY, and she told me while walking around the UVA bookstore that back in NY, she would shop-lift just because she could, but after coming to UVA, it made her rethink that attitude, and she stopped doing that.</p>
<p>Another moment that stuck in my head was a couple of years after I had graduated. I came back to UVA and attended an a capella concert, and I remember seeing a wallet on a table. I kept on staring at it to see if anyone would try to take it. Over an hour later, there it stayed.</p>
<p>I've never felt that sense of trust in a community since graduating.</p>
<p>I think the honor that you learn at UVA if taken to heart will follow you for the rest of you life and will guide you in times when you have to make difficult decisions. A couple years ago, I was producing a documentary for another channel, and my boss wanted me to portray 2 characters in a manner totally opposite of who they were - a common practice done at some television networks. Even though doing so would have made the show a "home-run" in his words, I was like, "Hells, no! I'm not pimping out these people." Unfortunately, the project was never completed, and it didn't make me look good in my boss' eyes, but doing the right thing was far more important. </p>
<p>Under a single or multi-sanctioned system, I hope you students will continue to honor the ideals of honor. As you grow older, you will never regret being honorable, and your friends and colleagues will respect you for it.</p>
<p>This is why I love UVA. This is one of the top reasons I will be at Virginia this fall, I can't wait!!!</p>
<p>Here's a paragraph from an interesting study that was published 2 years ago about honor codes and academic integrity:</p>
<p>
[quote]
Academic honor codes effectively reduce cheating. Surveys conducted in 1990, 1995, and 1999, involving over 12,000 students on 48 different campuses, demonstrate the impact of honor codes and student involvement in the control of academic dishonesty. Serious test cheating on campuses with honor codes is typically 1/3 to 1/2 lower than the level on campuses that do not have honor codes. The level of serious cheating on written assignments is 1/4 to 1/3 lower.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Oh my goodness... I have to wonder if the people here really attend the same U.Va. that I do. Are you living in a bubble? Do you even know how rampant stealing is at U.Va.? A recent study showed our stealing rate to be amongst the worst at the top 50 universities! I'll bet you didn't know that, though, did you? How about the fact that Clemons staff have found that valuable items left for over 15 minutes unattended are stolen about 0.4% of the time... a similar study shows that valuable items left unattended for over 15 minutes at a PUBLIC BUS STOP are stolen around 0.2% of the time... so congrats, our Honor System has gotten our stealing rate down to ALMOST as good as a public bus stop... yay? Our bike stealing rate is amongst the worst in the country, I can list off the top of my head at least ten friends who have had their wallets stolen right out in the open at the AFC. So, relaly, you're joking right?</p>
<p>Look, at my high school, we didn't have strict punishments for honor code violations, but we TAUGHT about Honor, we worked to foster it, instead of making students fear it. And you know what? It worked. I would leave my stuff lying around my high school before doing that at U.Va. any day of the week. Actually FOSTERING Honor and TEACHING about it works... but heaven forbid a University actually teach. Instead, if we find someone has a problem with it, we just say "Oh, we don't want to deal with this, here, let someone else handle our problems, get out." I was always taught growing up that running away from our problems is the height of dishonor, yet this is EXACTLY what the single sanction does...</p>
<p>All U.Va.'s Honor System is instill fear of dishonor, not love of honor, and that is a system that will always inevitably fail. Our cheating rate is no better than other schools with honor codes, our stealing rate is worse, and of course we have no measure of lying. Maybe we should actually foster honor, instead of creating fear?</p>
<p>And finally, to the person who said "the only reason the yes vote got so far was because Hoo's Against Single Sanction? went on a huge mobilization drive, which, sadly, Single Sanction proponents did not match," were you living under a rock the whole election? Did you read the paper, or look around you?</p>
<p>Students for the "Preservation" of Honor, the main pro-single sanction group, was backed the entire time in terms of man-power and finances by alumni groups, fraternities, sororities, and even a secret society (the Purple Shadows)... Estimates have them at having spent about $3000, and having used about 70-80 people to run their campaign. They plastered grounds with deceptive fliers, handouts, mailbox stuffers, library "table tents", and facebook ads and violated just about every campaign rule at the University.</p>
<p>Hoos Against Single Sanction had about 12 people working their campaign and spent about $300. So, tell me, who had the bigger mobilization drive, and could reach more people? HASS's campaign was barely even able to touch grad schools, where SPH could plaster them. HASS tried hard, but they're underfunded and undermanned. If anything, the only reason the NO vote was so high was because of the pro-single sanction side's mass mobilization and funding.</p>
<p>Honestly people, you need to wake up to the University around you. Every time anyone comes up with a proposal to get rid of the single sanction and actually FIX the Honor System, hard-core traditionalists start blowing the "tradition" horn and are too stuck in their ways to notice that their beloved institution (single sanction) is the very thing destroying what SHOULD be their more important beloved institution (the Honor System).</p>
<p>So, I'm afraid, as I have seen in my work as an Honor Advisor already, the Honor System IS somewhat dead, but CAN still be saved.</p>
<p>Now, to any parents and prospectives reading this, I'm sorry to sound so alarmist. I love U.Va., I really do. In fact, I'm coming back here for grad. school. I will argue with anyone for U.Va. being a better school and a better place to go than ANY other school in the country (yes, even the Ivies). There are lots of great reasons to come here, and I'd be glad to talk about them. Unfortunately, the Honor System just isn't one of them, so don't let yourself or your kids fall into the propaganda trap that they love to set.</p>
<p>Wahoo2, can you please share with us this Clemons Library study? If it's true what you say, I'm surprised a bigger deal hasn't been made about it. I'm not doubting you. I'm just interested in reading it and finding out more. </p>
<p>By the way, non-UVA students go to Clemons and the other UVA libraries all the time. We have no security system keeping non-students out like many other colleges. When I was a student, I would occasionally bump into a high schooler or other townies around UVA facilities. This just begs me to ask, "Is it UVA students doing most of the stealing or outsiders taking advantage of UVA's openness, trusting community, and well-off student body?"</p>
<p>Globalist, a very legitimate question with regards to outside parties, and there is no way to know who exactly is doing the stealing. The study itself was cited by Clemons a couple years ago when they were encouraging people to always keep an eye on their stuff. I do not remember where it was.</p>
<p>As for why a "bigger deal" hasn't been made of it, people are more concerned about the higher profile crimes occurring (the recent assaults, armed robberies, and the lawn room break-ins, for example), and 0.4% is still fairly low (my argument is not that the cheating rate is high here, just that it's no better than normal and in some areas is higher... but 'normal' is still pretty low). You're talking about something being stolen 1 out of every 250 times something valuable (in other words, worth stealing) is left unattended for 15 minutes or more (which most people are smart enough not to do)... so that's still fairly low... just relatively high.</p>
<p>and by "cheating" I mean "stealing"... Again, I'm an Honor Advisor and most cases actually reported to us are cheating cases....</p>
<p>However, at least a fair number of these robberies happen after midnight, when non-UVA students are NOT allowed at Clemons... But my knowledge of that is more anecdotal than statistical, so I don't want to say anything with certainty there.</p>
<p>wahoo2:</p>
<p>What's interesting to me about what you said was the issue of "fear." I don't know how that happened. I can assure you that I never felt any fear of the single sanction, nor did I know anyone who did. I didn't cheat (or steal for that matter, and I didn't lie except to tell a few girls that, no, they didn't look fat in those pants) because it just wasn't done. In other words, it sounds a lot like your high school.</p>
<p>Sorry it's changed at UVA.</p>
<p>Tarhunt, I agree in many ways. First of all, I do think you represent the "typical" U.Va. student. You didn't cheat because... well, you're an honorable person so why would you? The Honor System itself, then, has no impact on whether or you people like you cheat, and that's not who we're talking about here.</p>
<p>However, the single sanction does not deter most less honorable people here because 1) they don't consider what they're doing cheating, 2) they know only two percent of violations are reported so they won't get caught, or 3) they know what they're doing is trivial and would get thrown out if they WERE caught. Multiple sanctions can address 2 and 3.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, cheating and such is more rampant than it used to be (as is my understanding), but don't think for a minute that the typical U.Va. student does it... there are just more atypical students and the single sanction is not an effective deterrent. Additionally, anyone who doesn't cheat just because of the single sanction (again, those who this isn't a deterrent but don't cheat anyways won't cheat no matter what the system is) is just doing so out of fear, instead of any inspiration for love of Honor.</p>
<p>I'm glad most U.Va. students are still like you were, Tarhunt... unfortunately, you know what they say about a few bad apples.</p>
<p>I think fear is the wrong word to use. Instead, maybe students are simply cautious about cheating from being worried about being caught. I'm sure during a test there are students who sit there and think "well crap, i don't know any of this, im screwed! But wait Johnny S next to me seems to know what he's doing....but if I get caught, i'm thrown out...what should I do?". And quite frankly, i'm sure students do cheat on a homework, test, or quiz at some point during their 4 or more years. While not all do, i'm sure a larger percentage than we think do. Do I support it? No, not at all. I caught a kid cheating off of my test once and I wanted to kill him (which I guess is an honor violation itself...oh the irony). But its college, and kids will do as they please. These students will go on, not get caught, and cheat even more. But then they reach a point where they just can't do it anymore, and fail miserably. And while it may suck, hopefully they'll learn their lesson. And frankly, single sanction may be that lesson they need that won't totally destroy their life (i.e. fired from a job, jail, ect). It also might serve as a reminder to his peers. But I don't think students live in fear of it. They just know that cheating/lying/stealing is wrong, and are aware of the consequences.
UVa is not a dictatorship, nor a totalitarian state. Jefferson would be dissapointed if he knew his students live in fear of a University system. Especially since the system is based on ideals that someone should learn from their mother by age 10.</p>
<p>Well, unfortunately, not everyone enters here with a full understanding of Honor either... but that's a whole new issue that I don't think we need to start here... However, just as a point, killing someone is not an Honor offense... though if you do it, I think you'd have more important things to worry about than the Honor System :-)</p>
<p>But anyways, single sanction only works if you believe every case is cut and dry. What was done was unequivocably wrong, and this person is automatically dishonorable. When you accept that there IS grey area, that you're not 100% sure that something is actually dishonorable, that a person can make a mistake while still being an honorable person, only having one penalty starts not making sense anymore.</p>
<p>Some will say either you're honorable or you're not, plain and simple. Fair enough. So, here's a few situations to ponder:</p>
<p>You're an international student and in high school cheating was seen as "clever" and was not punished. You're not thoroughly explained the Honor System in your language, so you don't really understand it. You cheat just like you were practically encouraged to do in high school. Are you a dishonorable person? Should you get away with nothing?</p>
<p>You're an engineer writing your thesis. You've never had a writing class in college, and in high school "citing sources" wasn't taken seriously. You mis-cite the sources on your thesis, getting you accused of plagiarism. The jury determines you SHOULD have known when voting on intent. Are you a dishonorable person? Should you get away with nothing?</p>
<p>A class allows collaboration on most assignments, but the syllabus does nothing to specify which you can and which you can't. Two students collaborate on an assignment that turns out they can't. They did not ask the teacher because they were confident it was allowed. Are they dishonerable people? Should they get away with nothing?</p>
<p>A student finds out his mother is dying of cancer while writing a paper. All he can think about doing is just finishing the paper, not caring about his grade, but just getting home. By doing this, he cuts and pastes a large paper from the internet. He should have known better, so he has no psychological argument under Honor rules. When he comes to his senses, he wants to make a conscientious retraction, but he can't, he's already been accused. Is this student dishonorable? Should he get away with nothing?</p>
<p>Unfortunately, Honor deals with cases like this one all the time. There IS no black and white, there is always grey area. Single sanction simply does not make sense with so much uncertainty.</p>
<p>Just my take:
'
International student: Hard to believe the Honor System isn't explained to him. Not sure why UVA would admit people from cultures where cheating is encouraged. I think I'd have him gone.</p>
<p>Engineer: Intent is important. If there was no intent to plagiarize, I can't see having him be gone. The Honor System can be changed to take intent into account, but I would have it taken into account only as "non-intent" for which the accused must present evidence.</p>
<p>Collaboration: An intent issue. See above.</p>
<p>Mother dying: Sorry. No excuse. I had a similar situation at UVA and had absolutely no trouble getting finals and papers rescheduled.</p>
<p>I agree, tarhunt. Wahoo2's examples are awful. He either doesn't understand the Honor system or is fabricating poor examples to support his poorly-reasoned bias against the Honor code and the single sanction system.</p>