<p>Hi everyone, I'm down to these two......please help me decide or convince me to go to McGill....!</p>
<p>I will be majoring in Economics in college and one of the reasons stopping me from accepting McGill's offer is because I have heard that the quality of Bcom in McGill is poor and economics is not that good unless you are doing the honours or the joint honours program, which is extremely challenging. Is the drop out rate mostly the result of laziness or it is really that difficult? I've done well in high school and standardized tests but I am by no means smart. However as long as the drop out rate is a result of general laziness, I believe I can crack it. Can someone tell me about the econ and Bcom in McGill?</p>
<p>I understand that UCLA isn't top choice for economics but I only applied to Berkeley and UCLA for US colleges so I don't really have any choice.....but I heard that the programs are decent, and juniors and seniors get to take classes in Anderson (UCLA's Business School) so I am not really concerned about their program. </p>
<p>I am international for UCLA which means I have to pay about $14000 more each year compared to McGill. It's a lot of money but I am more concerned about the reputation of McGill in the US since ultimately I would like to work there, but I don't live in North America. From your perspective, which one is perceived as more prestigious, UCLA or McGill? Which is more employable?</p>
<p>And lastly...it might sound stupid but what is the Asian population on campus? Quite frankly I am not good with White people because...the racial segregation in my school is pretty bad....what is it like over there? Do asian males hook up with white people? (In a sense I consider this as a real indicator for "melting pot" ) Because quite frankly in UCLA although they have close to 45% of Asians.....white and asians hardly talk....it all ends at the usual "hey hows it going Chan?" (at least true for asian males....let us put the Asian shyness factor aside for this discussion)</p>
<p>Would be great if you can help me out....I only have a few more days to decide....</p>
<p>I don't know what the asian population is outside math and science classes but to quote my friend in Math 263, whenever they pass back assignments every other OTHER name is white, the rest is either of Asian or middle-eastern descent. Teacher calling out names: "Asian last name, middle-eastern last name, middle-eastern, middle-eastern again, a few more asian names, John smith?, some more asian names". If I was hearing another language being whispered behind me in math 133, it was most likely one from asia (I'm not gonna even pretend to know what language it actually was, I just know it was tonal, and sounded asian). </p>
<p>p.s. please don't interpret this like I have a problem with the asian or middle-eastern populations here, OP just wanted to know what the asian population here was like.</p>
<p>Ide say UCLA has more prestige in the US, except maybe in a few select East Coast areas, and maybe a few midwest areas. However, that's with general people, not employers. Assuming you are anywhere on the east coast, ur employers should be smart enough to know McGill pretty well.</p>
<p>Idk anything about the Bcom econ, but the BA econ honors is undoubtedly one of the hardest programs at McGill. Ask wutang about it. Everything he's said makes it sound br00tal.</p>
<p>Ide say overall UCLA probably has a better econ program, and I am pretty sure UCLA easily has one of the top 20 best econ programs in the US (thought it is not close to as good as Berkeley's imo (cuz u said u applied there, but since you are asking about UCLA im assuming u didnt get into Berkeley). Idk much about the quality of McGill's outside of the honors program being very rigorous, and I especially dunno much about the management econ program.</p>
<p>I was in the Joint Honours major at McGill and unless you're really good at calculus it is a very difficult stream. The teachers are great but you have to be able to keep up and understand the material, which I wasn't able to do and therefore had to pursue a regular major. The regular econ major is definitely easier than the Honours course but it is by no means a walk in the park. However, unlike you I did econ from the arts faculty, but I think the required courses are the same for both arts and commerce students.</p>
<p>I will add a few things as well about McGill. I went last semester (Fall 2007) to a departmental advising meeting for Economics students interested in graduate studies. The professors holding the meeting said the following:</p>
<p>1) The regular Economics stream has "basically no math" (don't want to offend anyone, this was the professor's wording) and it teaches subjects in an intuitive fashion.</p>
<p>2) If you want to go to grad. school most US schools will not recognize the difficulty of the Honours program at McGill but do expect students to have completed a lot of its courses (see next points).</p>
<p>3) According to the Prof. if you want to pursue a PhD in Econ you might as well do an undergrad in Math instead.</p>
<p>4) Grad schools expect: Calculus 3 (Multivariable calculus), Linear Algebra, Differential Equations, Statistics, Probability and possibly Analysis. You don't go anywhere near these things in the regular stream.</p>
<p>That being said here are some additional comments:</p>
<p>1) You do not need to be "really good" at Calculus, Cal 3 (MATH-222) is the recommended class at McGill for Honours or Joint Honours majors and it is a pretty standard class that many different majors have to take.</p>
<p>2) The first year Honours Econ classes, specifically ECON250D1/D2 (Honours Microeconomics) is a weed out course designed to fail the people who are not up to it. After the first semester already around a third of the people dropped out (it's a year long course). The program doesn't get much harder after that but is challenging overall. Note that as of next year I think they are making Cal1/2 (Differential & Integral cal) a requirement to take ECON250 so you have to take those in U0. </p>
<p>My advice: If you are serious about your studies consider the Honours program, you don't have to be a math genius but you have to work quite hard. Alternatively you can go for the regular stream which will leave you not particularly well prepared for any serious grad-school.</p>
<p>Thank you PerpetualStudent. Your comment is very helpful</p>
<p>But I do suppose you pointed out my greatest fear or say greatest concern about McGill</p>
<p>2) If you want to go to grad. school most US schools will not recognize the difficulty of the Honours program at McGill ....</p>
<p>I do suppose it is the same for job placement. Although I truly believe it's up to one's ability rather than a college's reputation to succeed, UCLA just seems like the easier choice. It might not be any less challenging, but if you put in the same amount of effort as you would do in McGill, your effort will mostly likely be rewarded in terms of job placement or grad school, whereas for McGill graduates that's not guaranteed. </p>
<p>Is my analysis correct? or is it off....?</p>
<p>And I still have to ask this but if you had the choice, would you go to UCLA or McGill? Do you truly believe the experience you gained at McGill (social, academic, etc) is worth the disadvantage in terms of name recognition?</p>
<p>It's extremely hard to say how this recognition translates into job placements. </p>
<p>Keep in mind a lot of the "recognition" factor is geographic - people (and employers) living around a university will know about it, those half way across the world probably won't even know it exists let alone how good it is.</p>
<p>If you want to get a job in California I'd guess UCLA might be a better choice. I don't know what to advise you about that, I looked up some quick stats and it seems to be only marginally larger than McGill and also in an urban setting so other than the warmer weather I don't think it would be that different socially or academically.</p>
<p>Grad school or job placements are not "guaranteed" period, regardless of what school you go to. My opinion is that it's not all that important which one you choose as long as you apply yourself and get decent grades and take the required courses (i.e. all the math I listed even if it's not part of the program if you want to do grad studies).</p>
<p>One thing I didn't comment on previously is that McGill is (at least in my mind) quite foreign student friendly, there are tons of international students and they seem to blend in well.</p>
<p>As for the question you asked me, I couldn't say because I don't know UCLA, and I did not apply to any US schools since I live in Montreal and the quality to cost ratio of McGill was unbeatable for me. For what it's worth I do feel I missed out on some of the social aspects because I never go to do the whole dorm/residence experience. </p>
<p>Anyway.... you seem to be leaning towards UCLA, so you must have your reasons. Naively I would guess that it would make more sense for you to go to the school in the country you want to work in but I'm sure you'd do fine with either choice. </p>
<p>Going back to grad school, if you are thinking about a PhD program maybe, definitely consider the McGill honors programs. Honors programs require, as far as I have heard, a good amount of research and a huge honors thesis paper written about your findings, etc. For PhD programs of all kinds, you Must have some type of research under your belt and you need the papers to prove it. So if you would like to go on to a PhD, honors is a great option because, not only should the rigor prepare you, but hopefully by writing an honors thesis would make the your research a requirement for you to do. I would say it give you more of an incentive to research.</p>
<p>Dr. Mambo: The East Asian population outside of the Engineering, Science and Management streams is pretty sparse and even then, it's mostly girls.</p>
<p>I've been in classes as big as 60 kids and been the lone Asian male (I'm an Econ student, but I'm doing it more as an interest than to get into the field).</p>