<p>Anecdotes are fine with some supporting documentation, but you still need facts from which to draw conclusions.There is nothing in this story, and that’s not even arguing whether it’s true or not. Simply, if there is evidence to support the assertion put it in the article. It’s not that hard. Although, if the author is in fact the Patricia Cohen who is still suing her ex-husband billionaire money manager with his own island twenty years after their divorce because she thinks he hid 5 million dollars of shady hedge-fund profits from her; well, that would explain her confusion about actual job hunting and how that works out here in real world land. How this stuff gets published is another question, however.</p>
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So couldn’t the fact that black college graduates have lower GPAs than white college graduates be a symptom of racism in society?</p>
<p>What other phenomenon could explain that pattern?</p>
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<p>could be that other groups’ cultures put a higher value on super-high GPAs. Or that other groups are largely coming from better K-12 systems. Or, that other groups have more parents that aren’t First Gen college.</p>
<p>I take an historical perspective because some effects of social changes are seen generations later, and in probably all cases result in both good and bad outcomes. </p>
<p>As often happens, the solution to one problem may have led to others. One change is the employment antidiscrimination laws that protect vulnerable groups. This is a good thing that resulted in many more women, minorities, and people with disabilities entering the workforce. Now for the bad. Thanks to these laws, it is almost impossible to terminate an employee who is not doing the job without extensive documentation. This is time consuming. An unfounded discrimination lawsuit is also time consuming and expensive. This raises the question of how much is fear of a lawsuit playing a part in hiring practices? </p>
<p>Thanks to antidiscrimination laws, all jobs need to be posted in public, even though many are already filled via networking and connections. So many applications are for jobs that really don’t exist. Those will fail no matter who you are. Is this applicant making the kind of connections needed to lead to a job? Someone could easily apply online to 100 non existing jobs and get rejected.</p>
<p>How does the applicant present him/herself? Are they dressed appropriately, making good eye contact? I recently advised a young man to take a large piercing of his ear before a job interview. ( he is Caucasian). He likes his piercing, but the employer may not. Many of the styles and fashions that are popular today are not appealing to people in older generations, and applicants need to be prepared for all interviewers. </p>
<p>How flexible is the applicant with taking jobs? I have a relative who will not take a job he doesn’t think is good enough for him. He is waiting for a high paying job. In reality, he will need to work up to it. He says he is looking for a job but he is only applying to jobs he likes and may not have enough experience for. </p>
<p>How qualified is the applicant? Ultimately, an employer wants to hire the best person for the job, and that may or may not be the GPA. There are other job related skills. If a job involves the public, then someone with good people skills and an average GPA may be preferable to an introvert with a high GPA. Is the applicant a good match for the job? What skills can be gained to make an applicant more qualified?</p>
<p>And lastly, when is the applicant purely a victim and when is he/she responsible for having the qualifications for the job. Sadly, this is the hardest question to ask and most controversial to discuss. </p>
<p>Pennylane Wouldn’t a person with a high GPA and good people skills be preferable to one with a low GPA and good people skills?</p>
<p>Of course…
I will clarify a bit, because many years ago I helped with hiring someone who would interact with the public. I don’t remember GPA’s but she was friendly, pleasant and easy to get along with, in contrast to other applicants. I think some students with ADD or learning differences may not perform as high in the classroom setting, but they can have other strengths that are well suited to some jobs. So, yes, high GPA is good, but it is not the whole picture. </p>
<p>Penny The issue raised in this thread was that Black graduates were having a more difficult time getting jobs than White graduates. The author of the article was eluding to racism as a reason,not about whether “it is common for students with ADD to not perform as high in the classroom setting, but they can have other strengths that are well suited to some jobs”.</p>
<p>Unless you are saying that Blacks in general are more prone to ADD than other ethnicity and that is why Blacks on average have lower GPA than other ethnic groups.</p>
<p>No, I am not saying that at all. I am saying that there are more aspects to any applicant than GPA, and that job skills can be varied. I gave the case of ADD and learning differences as an example of a condition that can impact GPA, but not impact some jobs at all. This is in no way making any implications of race. </p>
<p>I understand the article, and understand the point of the article, however, my larger concern is the goal of employment. The argument on this thread seems to be how much racism plays a part. I think we can agree that it is a long term and pervasive problem. The immediate problem is employment, so my question is are there any other factors involved that can be changed to make this better?</p>
<p>To add, I do think this takes looking at the student’s personal stregnths. The article doesn’t go into this but there was a point raised about GPA, but the working world requires many different skills. Seeing a discrepancy raises many questions, and to me it demands a look at how to best prepare students for the jobs they seek. </p>
<p>I gave the case of ADD because I know a young man who struggled with that, but he has exceptional communications skills and is doing fine in a job that requires that. </p>
<p>The trouble with such threads is reading intention into posts where there is none. There is no intention beyond saying that GPA is important in academics, but in the workforce it is possible that other skills are important too. </p>
<p>The article does not even prove the premise, though. It plays into a pre-existing perception that it’s probably true but if you read it carefully it’s a long way from making any kind of case for a real issue or a comparison of two similar students from two similar schools and even then there is no such thing as two people where all things are equal. So, this is the part where people say things like of course it’s a problem without regard to what is asserted as being an issue. And, even more concerning is that the article actually comes really close to suggesting that those named companies didn’t hire this guy because he was black. How many resumes do you think they trash every day?</p>
<p>And, since these are college graduates if they are in fact not well prepared I can’t quite figure out why that wouldn’t reflect more on the college than anything else.</p>
<p>Penny Do you really believe if there were two equally qualified Black and White applicants for a job at Google that Google would choose the White applicant over the Black applicant? If that is what you believe I would say you would be wrong.</p>
<p>The problem with the article is that it states a statistical data to be the result of racism when no such causal relationship could be determined from the limited information. As you have written there are a lot of factors that could be in the mix. GPA was one factor, but there are many other factors as well.</p>
<p>marie1234 I think that was also a motive of the author of the article as I stated previously this was poor journalism at best.</p>
<p>It’s a news article, and here is the news:
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<p>Okay, now what are they majoring in, what schools are they attending, and what are their scores? This matters otherwise the only thing you are comparing in skin color. How many blondes get hired at Google as opposed to brunettes. Who cares? There are a zillion things that could explain the growing disparity starting with more blacks attending college in the first place which is of course a very good thing assuming they are well prepared to succeed. Otherwise, it sounds a lot like everyone deserves a house which led to financing people who couldn’t pay the mortgage and got foreclosed on and destroyed neighborhoods all over the country. Well-intentioned, but really dumb.</p>
<p>I am always reading here about how things are better and better for black people in the U.S. But the statistics (national statistics from the federal government) don’t lie. I care, even if you don’t.</p>
<p>oldmom are you saying the article confirms that the relatively higher unemployment rate for Blacks is the result of racism? </p>
<p>Yes, well I am starting to think people post on these threads just to make themselves feel better for all their caring which is also an interesting trend. I care more than you so I am nicer and you are mean. lol. And, please don’t confuse me by noticing that the facts don’t support my premise. Sigh and sigh again. </p>
<p>And, statistics most certainly do lie as anyone who is involved in spinning statistics is more than aware of since that is basically their job. But, I’m not even saying this isn’t true. Instead, I am saying the article doesn’t prove a darn thing. And, it just doesn’t. Sorry.</p>
<p>I am saying that it is apparently at least a contributing factor.</p>
<p>Marie, you’re the one who said “who cares?” I care. I am white and have black friends and my brother married a wonderful black woman and I have 3 nieces who are often perceived as black and I worry for them.</p>
<p>The “who cares” was in reference to blondes and brunettes which is also interesting since my primary interest here is in people’s seeming inability to read past what they already believe is probably true which you have just confirmed again. To say I have black friends too just seems ridiculous to me, but I do and most of them are doing just fine. I also know a bunch of white college grads who work at Starbucks and suspect that is the case a lot more than people probably think. One majored in English and theater. Again, we need more information to reach a meaningful conclusion.</p>
<p>oldmom Why would you conclude that “it (racism) is apparently at least a contributing factor”? When there is no information to put this data that Black unemployment is higher than White unemployment rate in context. </p>
<p>Let’s say Google requires an employee with a degree in computer engineering and a 4.0 GPA for its IT department. There are only 10 applicants who fit this description, none of them are Black. According to your logic Google has shown racism is a factor even if Google would have hired the Black applicant that met the qualification each and every time over all other applicants.</p>
<p>oldmom here is a better written article about wage surveys of people of different races. It actually states “The study doesn’t explain the disparities in pay, which could be attributed to different fields of study.”</p>
<p><a href=“How Much More Will You Pay for Science and Math Grads | Inc.com”>http://www.inc.com/associated-press/stem-majors-get-high-paying-jobs.html</a></p>
<p>@voiceofreason- I know that the article makes the case for racial discrepancies because that is the only information given about the applicants… As to the answer to your question, putting that kind of question into a yes or no answer is an impossible predicament, because I think hiring practices are interpersonal and take into consideration multiple aspects of both who is hiring and who is applying, and for what job. Furthermore, I can’t possibly assume what someone else might do. </p>
<p>The article is informative as far as giving statistics, but beyond that, I don’t see the usefulness in implying that there is just one reason for the numbers.</p>