For the class of 2014... lessons learned.

Colleges and Universities A-Z Yale University
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<p>As the common application became available just a few days ago, many future applicants are inevitably beginning the college admissions process For some, you've been contemplating and examining colleges for years as well as browsing CC - this is a great thing and you are better off for it. For other people, you may be lost, confused, and unsure. But there is one thing everyone who is applying has in common - you are all on a quest to better yourselves and enhance opportunities for yourself by applying for Yale - not to mention the amazing experience you will have if you are admitted. But I'm not here to discuss my experience at Yale - I have yet to begin there; rather to give my advice on the application process. </p>

<p>First and foremost, as I see on many chance threads, people worry about their SAT and ACT scores. Although no one can be for sure, from my experience and exploration through CC, admissions sites, and other resources, they have minimal impact on your chances <em>once</em> you reach a certain benchmark. For some colleges the benchmark may be 1750/2400. For others, it may be 2050/2400. For Yale, my guesstimate is it is about 2100, give or take 100 points. What this means is, in the preliminary examination of your application, you are categorized by your SAT score - whether this is a formal procedure or not, I am relatively sure it happens. Now having a score below 2100 does not mean you have no chance of getting admitted. What it means is that you better have a stellar application otherwise. In addition, once you hit that certain "benchmark," your score doesn't really matter. At that point, admissions officers know you can handle the coursework. This is why we sometimes hear people who score 2400 or 36 complain that they did not get in with their astounding test scores. Yes, they had the test scores to handle the course work, but did they have the rest of the package? Probably not. Test scores are important, but they do not always represent a person's ability to thrive in the college atmosphere. Especially at Yale, academics are not everything. Yale wants a group of students who will thrive in many areas of collegiate life - from academics to athletics and everything in-between. Ultimately my advice in this area is, if you have an SAT score below 2100, work on improving it if you can, but remember, you still have a chance, albeit a smaller one than if you had a 2300. If you have a score above 2100, GOOD JOB. This is something to be proud of - just remember there are 26,000 applicants who will have similar scores. Now focus on the rest of your application.</p>

<p>So if test scores that meet a certain benchmark really no longer make a difference, than what does? Primarily this is your extracurricular activities. From football to chess club, the most common difference between an accepted applicant and a rejected applicant is how they spent their time outside school. The key word here is how. A laundry list of activities and leadership positions will usually not work (usually!). Your extracurricular activities need to demonstrate your passions, something that is reflected often on CC. For example, did you play varsity basketball? Given that you will not be a recruited athlete, how passionate were you? Did you perhaps expand this into other ares of your life? How about an athletic leadership group or running a basketball camp during the summers? These things show passion. Did the basketball camp introduce you to a specific need in your community such as education - maybe you noticed a lot of kids in your area needed help in math and you branched out to tutoring (this could be an essay topic as well!). This shows passion versus you played basketball (captain), was VP of Key club, were active in Model UN, and was President of the band. Now I'm not saying that well rounded candidates are bad, but passion shows a lot in your application. This is also not to say that demonstrating yourself as strong in athletics, politics, and music is bad either. Many people can tie these together to create a strong application. My advice here is to be yourself in your application - demonstrate your love for whatever it is that you do.</p>

<p>Another important aspect of your application is the essay. Perhaps once you are good with test scores and are able to show your passions for EC's, this is the tipping point. A boring essay even with a strong test scores and leadership can easily put you in the rejected pile, especially at a school like Yale who has thousands of similar applicants. So with your essay, continue to explain your passions. The admissions committee wants to get as much of an understanding of you as possible. If all your ECs showed a focus in politics and then you wrote about your scientific research at a local university, I would have missing pieces of my understanding of you as an applicant. Now for example, say you wrote about how you found out how stem-cell research may pave the way for cures to diseases and you want to promote that through the political landscape - this has the potential to be a good essay that ties together your passions as well as something other applicants of a similar nature may not have. </p>

<p>So far, I think I have emphasized the "show your passions" idea throughout your entire application. Although I believe this is the best way to express yourself and gain that precious admittance, there are other ways. Yale admits many different type of people. I once heard that Ivy League schools admit approximately 25% of their classes based on hooks (URMs, recruited athletes, etc.), another 25% based on an amazing focus such a Intel finalist, top ranked debate team, amazing violinist, etc, and the other 50% based on good overall applicants. As someone applying next year, if you fall into the first two groups, power to you; however, this is not a guarantee of admittance. Most likely you fall into the third category where you have more control from this point on (although you have control over most other aspects as well - but it may be too late to become the amazing violinist or the recruited athlete). In third category category, you now have control over your how you "format" your application. Every aspect needs to be fine-tuned. Things such as spelling errors may be fatal (although as a side note, if your reviewing your application after you submit and realize you did make a small error like I did, your probably fine). What you really need to focus on is your essay, how you present your EC's and who you pick for recommendations. </p>

<p>Applying to college is never easy. It is time consuming at the very least and will be perhaps the most stressful part of your life up until this point, but it is rewarding as well. Whether you are admitted or rejected, you are probably a a great person who will go far in life. I was fortunate enough to apply SCEA, the best decision of my life. There are many arguments surrounding SCEA but if you are contemplating it and Yale is your first choice, go for it! </p>

<p>My final tip of advice for now is enjoy your senior year in high school. Wherever you are a leader and whatever you involve yourself in, thrive. Thrive because you want to, not to glorify your application. Things will fall into place as they were meant to be. If you happen to be rejected, remember that you are among the 93% that is. If you are accepted, Congratulations! You now have to deal with telling people you are going to Yale and getting sarcastic remarks back. Some people even resort to telling people they are just going to Connecticut in order to not be accused of being elitist. Otherwise, you will be entering into a "gated" community of scholars and you will experience profound growth in so many areas.</p>

<p>For now, take my advice for what it is worth. If you disagree, fine. Good Luck to all future applicants! </p>

<p>Also, feel free to ask questions!</p>

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<p>that was a GREAT post, mythbuster. thanks!</p>

<p>as a 2014 hopeful, what do you suggest to show passion for something like art? i’ve taken lessons for such a long time and dedicate a significant time outside lessons to independent work (definitely submitting a super strong portfolio). would yale knock me down for not “contributing to the community” with art? i love it, but i haven’t done that much outside of actual art–what i have done is that i’ve designed for school functions and should be volunteering for an art program this summer that pretty much works for promoting art and artistic opportunities.</p>

<p>also, what is your advice about GPA. at a certain point, like you mentioned in the SAT paragraph, (i have ~3.8) does it just become about other parts of the app, or would you consider 3.9 to be that “cutoff”?</p>

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<p>Great post!</p>

<p>Can I just comment, however, that I throw-up in my mouth every time I hear the word “passion.” It is thrown around the college admissions process so much that it makes me think of it as stale cheese. Perhaps it would be better to use a lexicon that includes “commitment,” “initiative,” “courage,” “dedication,” etc. Although some others may disagree with me, if I read the phrase “I am passionate about Y” on an application and I were an adcom I would be a little annoyed… I’d rather that the applicant show passion rather than just state that it exists.</p>

<p>FYI, chair2, gpa cutoff will depend a lot on the school. But I think 2100+, 3.75+ UW is a good pool to be in.</p>

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<p>Mythbuster, thank you so much for being so generous and informative.
Booyaksha, passion is pretty much the umbrella term for “commitment” and “dedication.” Of course, if you are truly passionate about your interest, it is often assumed that you are a leader in that “field” so you take initiative for any activities that revolve around your interest and such. Anyway, you are going to hear that word a lot. Hahaha but I agree, students should just be putting it right out there so bluntly that “I am passionate about Y,” they should be more subtle and elegant about it. Plus, usually the acitivity list shows the passion; they usuallyl don’t have to say it themselves.</p>

<p>Chair2, I am also an artist; it’s never too late to give back to the community. I paint murals at my local animal shelter because they wanted some more cheer in the building. Additionally, I am beginning a series of graphic design prints that I will sell to earn money to donate to an organization of my choice. Just a few ideas for you to toss around :]</p>

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<p>Awesome post!! I am so much reassured now - my SAT score is above 2100, but below 2200, and I am always afraid that my scores are “too low” in Ivy League standards. Nice to know that I’ve met the benchmark. </p>

<p>I will now start on my college essay on one of my passions - my only concern is, a gazillion others are basing their essay topic on their extracurricular activity as well. How can I make myself stand out, how can I show my passion??</p>

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<p>Nice post Mythbuster! Well done. Just to elaborate on the essays - make them so enticing that the adcom can’t put it down. Your writing style may make a difference as to how your essay comes across. Remember, they sift through thousands of boring essays and you want yours to stand out in a positive way. Good luck everyone!</p>

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<p>^ I too commend Mythbuster. Good essay! Nice choice of user name too.
Regarding the cliche of “passion.” I read a lot of essays. You could say that I am, in fact, a professional reader of essays. I heartily commend booyashka for noting the cliche. Related to this, is that every student writing a personal essay will have been, or be “a leader.”</p>

<p>Alternative to passion (and alternative, to a lesser extent, to "commitment): engagement. Show that you have been engaged. Describe where and how you have been engaged. How you contributed to something bigger than yourself and it made difference. Or, if it didn’t make a whit of difference, how it was a splendid failure.</p>

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<p>A note about GPA…</p>

<p>When it comes to GPA, the methods of determining what is good and bad can get a bit foggy. First of all, weighted GPAs demonstrate very little. At one school, a weighted GPA could be 5.9, while at another, an equivalent course load and grades could be a 4.3. As for uw, it largely depends on the school. For most schools, the adcoms will have a school profile which will give them a good idea about your schools strength (not to mention that many schools have reputations). Therefore, a 3.7 at one school may be seen as slightly weak at one school while extremely strong at another. As a general rule, most Yale acceptees will have mostly all As with a few or no Bs. Cs will hurt, although it is still possible to get accepted. </p>

<p>In response to this thread, several people have PM me. If you have any other questions that refer to your general application or chances, feel free to PM me as I will give a much better response. Obviously, I will not tell you how to write an essay, but I can give general guidelines and perhaps a few pointers.</p>

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<p>A lot of good advice given. I’d like to highlight one point – whom to chose for recommendation letters. Frankly, make sure that the writer is someone who is familiar with what ultra-selective schools like Yale are really looking for. Here’s a nice page by MIT
[MIT</a> Admissions | Info For Schools & Counselors: Writing Evaluations](<a href=“http://www.mitadmissions.org/topics/schools/writing_evaluations/index.shtml]MIT”>http://www.mitadmissions.org/topics/schools/writing_evaluations/index.shtml)</p>

<p>I’ve anecdotally heard how supportive but formulaic recommendation letters can really be a hindrance to your chances. I’d choose a teacher who has successfully had a previous student admitted to a selective college, if you can help it.</p>

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<p>Actually according to a statistical analysis of accepted/rejected/deferred students for Yale EA earlier this year on CC, a higher SAT score has a higher probability of acceptance. The benchmark is not 2100. If I remember correctly, 2200+ had a 20% acceptance rate while 2300+ had 40% acceptance rate within the sample used.</p>

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<p>I would recommend that anybody looking to apply to Yale (or any other highly selective school) study the threads in which admitted/rejected/waitlisted applicants share their stats and ECs. This will really give you a feel for what sorts of things admitted students have.
One word on “passion,” and even “engagement.” My review of the results threads suggests to me that a better word is “achievement.” I’m not convinced that adcoms are impressed by passionate engagement in something that you’re not very good at. It’s great to be committed to basketball, or piano playing, or art, but if you haven’t demonstrated any personal achievement in these endeavors, the obvious question is why aren’t you devoting your time time to an area in which you can contribute at a high level? So if art is your passion, you really want to enter competitions, organize shows, teach art to kids, etc.–you need to achieve something, not just practice.</p>

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<p>Regarding the statistical analysis, remember that CC students are much different than the “general” population, even those applying to top schools. While the information you presented is true, i would call it correlation rather than causation. Really when it comes to test scores, there is little difference between a 2320 and a 2400; however there is a difference between 2400 and 2100 (but both are plenty good to handle the rigor of the Ivy League), although both are very good scores. When someone with a 2300 gets accepted, they have the whole package as well. When someone with a 2100 gets accepted, they also have the whole package. My point here is that someone with a 2300 is also more likely to have the whole package: ECs, etc. </p>

<p>When we use statistical analysis when regarding college admissions, things can get quite tricky. Although I mentioned correlation rather than causation, there must be some causation as well. I think this most likely happens when you have two candidates who are so alike that it is hard to distinguish them, even in the applicant pool of 29,000.</p>

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<p>Hi Mythbuster,
how do you get the information about the testscores?</p>

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<p>

That may be true, but it’s hardly self-evident. I think that a person with a 2300 is likely to be accepted over a person with a 2100 if the rest of the package is about the same.</p>

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<p>Roomate lists for freshman (class of 2013) were recently received and if you google the kids for “your” residential college, you will find a lot of national champions… high scores (as demonstrated by National Commended Scholar type announcements associated with the google results) and also a wide swath in ethnicity… so, be yourself, be the best yourself you can be… and be honest with yourself…understand that if you apply and are accepted, you will have a shot at a great education… but, should you apply and be declined, recognize and accept that you will get your great education elsewhere. </p>

<p>Achievement is a good word for what reach schools are looking for… a strong level of achievement would typically foretell that this applicant would represent “us” well after 4 years of education from “us”… not Yale or any other top school is the “end” … it is the means to a lifelong end where you can apply what you learn to ________________ fill in the blanks… passion is almost seen as doing things in spite of our other commitments, whereas achievement to me indicates that one has objectives for their actions… perhaps a tad more sophisticated than passion? not just the objective of getting into a top school either…</p>

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<p>^^Thanks, maineparent and Hunt, for cutting to the chase. You’re right. National achievement is nothing to sneeze at.</p>

<p>Engagement plus achievement gets towards that famous well-roundedness which I’ve also seen not just in the entering class of Yale students, but also in Yale alums, over time. </p>

<p>Something for high school students think about, as they contemplate multiple EC commitments.</p>

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<p>To the people who are asking how to “show passion” about the activities that they have participated in, I recommend honesty and good written descriptions.</p>

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<p>thanks for the advice dudes</p>

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<p>“how do you get the information about the testscores?”</p>

<p>My information is based on my overall analysis of scores for accepted students as well as what I have seen around CC… the collegeboard’s profiles of schools was where I began. For example, to get the "benchmark, I used the 25th percentile test scores for Yale. </p>

<p>“That may be true, but it’s hardly self-evident. I think that a person with a 2300 is likely to be accepted over a person with a 2100 if the rest of the package is about the same.”</p>

<p>I agree. When the rest of the package is the same, the higher test score is likely to get in. </p>

<p>maineparent, I like your idea with achievement. I believe that achievement is earned with passion and it demonstrates your commitment. </p>

<p>“To the people who are asking how to “show passion” about the activities that they have participated in, I recommend honesty and good written descriptions.”</p>

<p>Exactly, do not merely show yourself in an application that you are passionate, be passionate!</p>

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<p>This is a great post MythBuster! When I have the time I’ll get around to writing one of my own.</p>

<p>For now, one thing I wanted to add about the essays. People often think the essays need to elaborate on their EC’s and help add substance to the EC’s that are on the activities section of the common app. While this definitely helps, it’s really not the key purpose of the essay in my opinion. The essay is meant to catch the admissions officer’s attention. It’s role is to make you memorable and make them have a sense of your personality. Your essay can be about anything you want as long as it captivates the adcom, so don’t be afraid to write about something random as long as it matters to you.</p>