<p>Steve, I can tell you that you’re just flat-out wrong that most in the 50K bracket are receiving substantial aid. The efc is worthless since most don’t meet need.</p>
<p>romanigypsyeyes–well then, call the school and tell them to adjust their NPC because that is where the info comes from.</p>
<p>Steve, the hole in you logic is equating EFC with what a family is actually expected to pay. Very few colleges meet full need (COA-EFC).</p>
<p>However, your larger point is spot on. Families in the $50,000 range will get substantial aid at many colleges - perhaps most. It’s often “merit” aid - the quotes because it’s really a net price discount offered to every admitted student who checks “will apply for financial aid” on the app, and offered before any financial data is submitted to the school. Last year, my daughter was admitted to four private colleges; the lowest “merit” award was $13,000, and her stats were not appreciably above the 25-75 range at any of the schools.</p>
<p>With those numbers, this is the result I got:
</p>
<p>I’d say 18k is a pretty steep price for one on 50k income. Furthermore, it’s worth pointing out that Aquinas is a private, Catholic college…</p>
<p>And I don’t much trust NPCs yet, but again… whole other point.
My whole point was that you can’t paint all those making 50k with the same brush. Different states, different issues, etc. It’s not all about “lifestyle”.</p>
<p>US News Shows 63 colleges that meet 100% of need. Most are high end schools, which might explain my impression that most schools would meet full need of a low income family. However, I would be willing to bet if you can go 80% - 90% of need your options are much wider. </p>
<p>Steve’s random school Aquinas looks to be meeting ~90% of need which to me almost free.</p>
<p>Here are the schools on US News & World Report’s list in alphabetical order:
63 Most Generous Colleges and Universities</p>
<pre><code>Amherst College
Barnard College
Bates College
Boston College
Bowdoin College
Brown University
Bryn Mawr College
California Institute of Technology
Carleton College
Claremont McKenna College
Colby College
Colgate University
College of the Holy Cross
Columbia University
Connecticut College
Cornell University
Dartmouth College
Davidson College
Duke University
Emory University
Franklin W. Olin College of Engineering
Georgetown University
Gettysburg College
Grinnell College
Hamilton College
Harvard University
Harvey Mudd College
Haverford College
Macalester College
MIT
Middlebury College
Mount Holyoke College
Northwestern University
Oberlin College
Occidental College
Pitzer College
Pomona College
Princeton University
Reed College
Rice University
Scripps College
Smith College
St. Olaf College
Stanford University
SUNY College of Environmental Science and Forestry
Swarthmore College
Thomas Aquinas College
Trinity College
Tufts University
University of Chicago
University of Dayton
University of North Carolina Chapel Hill
University of Northern Colorado
University of Pennsylvania
University of Richmond
University of Virginia
Vassar College
Washington and Lee University
Washington University, St. Louis
Wellesley College
Wesleyan University
Williams College
Yale University
</code></pre>
<p>Nationwide, most colleges and universities don’t meet need. It really is that simple. Most typical-college-age students do not have the stats to get into the few institutions that do meet aid. An institution that reports 90% of average need met may get there by offering nothing more than a few grand in federal loans to applicants who only have a few grand worth of need, and nothing at all beyond that.</p>
<p>I just ran the calculations at MSU Lansing. One year costs $24K. They give you a $4K+ grant, assume that the student contributes $3,000 in earnings. The remaining $17K is loans to the parent and student. $2,400 for the American Opportunity Credit per year and we’re at around $30K for two years.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>There are likely some public universities that meet full need for in-state students, but not for out-of-state students. Also, some may be cheap enough for in-state students that some who cannot get the net price of an in-admissions-reach private or out-of-state public school down to affordability range can afford list price at the in-state public school, particularly if it is in commuting distance. And some students do the first two years at a community college at even lower cost.</p>
<p>Of course, commuting to the local in-state public school or community college is not the preferred option on these forums, where every student seems to have at least a 3.9 GPA in rigorous high school courses and a 2100+ SAT and 32+ ACT. But it is likely the bulk of college student enrollment.</p>
<p>That said, the high achieving students do have more options, in terms of realistic chances at the “meet full need” schools, or realistic chances for large enough merit scholarships at other schools.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I will take that bet. 
</p>
<p>If a school says it’s meeting 80 or 90% of need, they’ve got several ways to cook the books. Trick #1 is that the school gets to define need. A student admitted to Harvard, Columbia and Reed, all schools that meet 100% of need and offer no merit aid, can end up getting wildly differing FA offers. Meeting 100% of a standard that you get to define counts for something but not as much as one would like. </p>
<p>Trick #2 is that if the school says it covers “on average” 80 or 90% or whatever of need, that doesn’t mean that they give everyone 80 or 90% of need. Some students may be getting 100% of need met; others may be getting none met. </p>
<p>Trick #3 is that the school may use loans as part of an FA package. Ugh.</p>
<p>OHMomof2, way back on page 1 (post #10) you linked to a NY Times article that did have a link to a source document, [Trends</a> in Higher Education |](<a href=“Trends in Higher Education – College Board Research”>http://trends.collegeboard.org/) where I easily found a link to Trends in Pricing, figures and tables. The original (Bloomberg) article had a link that took me to a page titled Annual Survey of Colleges, [Trends</a> in Higher Education |](<a href=“Trends in Higher Education – College Board Research”>http://trends.collegeboard.org/) but I couldn’t find the data. That was my main complaint with the original article, that I could not find the data to support or dispute his argument. So, thanks for the link. There is a lot to digest there. :)</p>
<p>The original article had the same link, they are the words “public” and “private” in the 7th paragraph.</p>
<p>I agree, a lot to digest.</p>
<p>SlitheyTove–how are they tricks? If you run the NPC for any school how the award is broken down is in black and white on the computer screen. If you need a lot of financial aid, you can assume with almost 100% certainty that you will have student loans but if the option it to graduate with max federal loans at $27,000 or not go to college at all, what would you choose? Yes, people would love to not have student loan debt but even maxing out the federal loans over 4 years, the debt is VERY manageable after graduation. Taking out additional private loans is where people get into trouble but those are not included in the package price.</p>
<p>They ARE tricks (of a sort) if these purported statistics are used to put said college on the list of meeting 100% of need. Granted, once any interested party delves into the FA of the specific institution, they find out that not all is what it seems. </p>
<p>I think a big reason for these bent numbers is to get parents & students to the information sessions, and also you probably have many colleges that USED to meet need a lot better a few years ago, that can’t (or won’t) admit publicly that the current economy does not allow them to do it to that extent anymore.</p>
<p>It’s definitely a buyer beware world out there, and weighing options like SteveMA says, with door #1 being $27K in loans vs. Door #2 not going to college.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>There are 20 colleges in the country??? I thought there are only 10, and the two below 8 are not really that good. :)</p>
<p>Seriously, there are close to 1 million HS students go to colleges every year. Everyone, I am guessing here, posting on this thread has (had) at least one kid in college in recently/current year. Of course “college is still affordable”. What is the arguement here?</p>
<p>^ Lol…</p>
<p>jnm123–I would say that if anyone going off to college doesn’t know that part of their financial aid package will contain loans, it is their fault, not that of the school. This information is easily obtained on any number of websites or by simply asking the admissions people what a typical package looks like. Most schools even have examples of packages on their websites. To add to that, anyone that puts a lot of stock in statistics should probably take a stats class :D.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>They’re tricks because, well, they trick people. It takes awhile to get educated about what exactly is meant by “we meet full need”. Keep in mind that readily available NPCs are only a year old! It was only a couple of years ago that here on CC people were recommending using Princeton’s FA package estimator, because most highly selective expensive schools didn’t have any tools for figuring out if the school was going to meet your family’s budget. </p>
<p>I’ve heard stories here of schools using PLUS loans in FA packages. Using Staffords seems fair to me; exceeding that level of loans and calling it FA isn’t cricket in my book.</p>
<p>And Dad II, LOL!</p>
<p>Agree with Steve. The breakdown of any package by loan, grant, etc. is very clear on every NPC and actual FA offer I’ve seen.</p>
<p>S applied to only one state school last year, the rest were private. That one sent us a letter after he was accepted that said in big letters that he would only have to pay $500 per year (or something like that). As I read down the letter I saw state and federal grants and Stafford…and like $20K in private loans. Whee! Only $500!</p>
<p>He went to one of the private schools.</p>
<p>The average college student is in his 20s, working full or part time and taking part time courses at a local college. So have no doubt that for most people things have not changed over time. What has changed is that the idea of going away to college has become more of a standard in more schools, and it has become a bitter pill when kids whose parents have up to that point pretty much provided them with every thing they wanted, have to bite the bullet and say they can’t afford this. </p>
<p>My close friend cried for a long time when she finally had to tell her daughter who was always an excellent student and who was given every amenity, that her first choice LAC was not going to happen. Non custodual dad made too much money for financial aid, and he refused to pay. THe gap was way to much for my friend to make up. She checked out every alternative she could and waited way too long before finally saying that it was not going to happen. It was the first time she could not come up with the money for something her daughter wanted. It still hurts her when she thinks about it and was a bitter pill to her daughter who always assumed she would go away to college, and instead had to commute to a local state school, a good one, but still it was not the experience she had expected to have. She did well, and got her degree in 3 years, double major, ended up at a law school and is doing very well now. But those were painful years for her. The expectations made it particularly painful.</p>
<p>In contrast, when i went to college, commuting to the local state schools was the given. It was truly an unusual thing for anything otherwise. I well knew that I would not be going away to school without some kind of money from teh college, and I knew it was no sure thing. These days, more kids are expecting that it would happen. </p>
<p>On the other hand, I can look up what my father would be making these days as he was a GS employee. Right down to the dollar. And the cost of my college has gone up more than ten fold in cost and his salary has not.</p>
<p>In contrast, when i went to college, commuting to the local state schools was the given. It was truly an unusual thing for anything otherwise. I</p>
<p>Exactly. And…for most of America’s kids today, going to college means commuting to the local CC or state school, paying for it with some kind of combo which might include: part-time job, student loans, parent help, or full-time job and part-time schooling.</p>
<p>Most families could not afford the “go away” experience back in the 70s, and most families can’t afford it today.</p>