For those considering whether to EA or not...

Colleges and Universities A-Z Stanford University
1

<p>Hello, my name is USNAgolden and Stanford absolutely crushed me: obliterated, smashed, decimated, etc. I spent 100 hours + on my essays and they were nearly perfect (my English teachers wanted to publish a few of them that's how good they were). As for my other stats I had a 35 and a 2340 (800CR, 760M, 780W), 800 MII, 790USH, 770Lit, 4.0UW/Valedictorian, 4 5s (Lit, USH, Psych, Euro), president of two major clubs, VP of another two, a varsity sport, 500+ hours of community service and awesome rec letters. [main passion is for politics/international relations, I think that came across pretty well. 75% of my activities were related to this category]</p>

<p>And I got a big R. Rejected. Completely. Not deferred.</p>

<p>Oh btw as for background: white, middle-class, midwestern, dad is a machinist, mom works in sales (so definitely not a rich white kid), huge public HS where I always win the major awards.</p>

<p>In addition to my example I know about 10 other VERY similar (with 2 of the 10 actually having considerably stronger apps ie 36/2400, international awards/work with prominent political figures or scientists, one got 3rd in the national spelling bee! and his superintendent wrote a rec letter to Stanford saying X was the greatest student that he had ever seen in 40 years!), and all of us got rejected. I only know two kids who got in from MO EA: a legacy and the child of domestic abuse.</p>

<p>I STRONGLY advise you NOT to apply EA if you are unhooked. I know another 10 very similar (asian/white) kids who applied RD. 8 of them got in. I am in no means implying that the original ten was superior or equal to the second set of 10, but I know them all very well (we are all friends), and I cannot fathom how the entire 1st group got rejected while the second group was pretty successful.</p>

<p>Take this however you want, I just want you to do your best and not regret your decison :) I regret mine. Hindsight kind of sucks sometimes. Stanford was my dream, but dreams die.</p>

<p>Best of luck of class of 2011! Do whatever feels right to you! I just wish that someone had told me this last year, and I felt obliged to share my (admittedly limited) experience. </p>

<p>Bonne chance!</p>

2

<p>Sorry your dream died, USNA. Duke is a great school and I’m sure you’ll be very happy there!</p>

<p>Just chiming in here to say I have numerous friends who are completely “unhooked” (not URM, not first-generation-to-college, not legacy or developmental, no unique life stories) but who are definite academic stars and who were all admitted to Stanford (the majority of them REA, the rest RD). They have perfect or near-perfect scores & gpa’s, high-level awards, significant college coursework, research experience, et al. It is understandable when someone who is well-qualified but not admitted becomes bitter from disappointment, but it’s also important for prospective students to recognize that Stanford and all of its peers love academic stars, even though none of these colleges admits every academic star that applies each year. The decision threads of all of these colleges contain similar poignant posts from applicants who seemed like shoo-ins but were somehow still denied admission. The fact is that the academic stars apply in large numbers to all of these schools, and overall do extremely well in admissions, but only very rarely get accepted to all of them.</p>

3

<p>Hahaha I know the Spelling Bee kid very well. When you posted you were from Missouri with those stats, I was going to point out that I knew a kid in a similar boat as you–and then I saw you mentioned him. He actually has what I’d consider a hook, which is the prestigious EC you’re referring to.</p>

<p>I think you’re mistaking one thing for another, though, and I’ll tell you what I’ve noticed. When I went to admitted student days of Colleges at YP and Columbia, I noticed that the Stanford admissions were almost completely random. One kid who was well qualified got in, one identical was rejected, one was Waitlisted. I felt I had a pretty all-around solid App, I was Waitlisted. Edit: And let me be clear, I didn’t perceive the same randomness for schools like Harvard or Yale or Princeton.</p>

<p>I think that at Stanford, more than any other of the HYPS, they read the essays and choose based on that. My feeling is that they see scores that qualify students, and great ECs, and don’t treat an especially prestigious leadership position any better than a regularly prestigious leadership position. Obviously, they’re not going to take a 1900 3.5 just because his/her essays were fantastic. But I think the essays are what separates some from others, as opposed to especially fantastic ECs or fantastic grades.</p>

<p>That’s what I think our problem was, USNA. Stanford’s App has a unique set of essays in it, and I have a feeling that’s their separating factor, while it might be different at other top schools.</p>

4

<p>While this is not representative of every student who applies, it seems to follow some type of trend like this.</p>

<p>Of the people who are admitted REA, somewhere in the ballpark of 100 are recruited athletes. (out of 753 this year, that would be almost 15%.). Many are URMs who they will continue to court until May 1st to make sure they enroll. More are international academic superstars, national/international competition winners, etc. </p>

<p>Restrictive Early Action is all about yield. Between 85-88% of REA admits eventually matriculate into Stanford. My opinion, whether you agree or not, is that they admit students who they know they would like to add to their list of highly accomplished students, those who they need for the geographic and demographic diversity, and athletes. Beyond that, I THINK they select students who, based on their personality, are highly likely to enroll because they “fit” at Stanford.</p>

<p>They often say, and I completely believe, that the students admitted under REA are the ones they would definitely admit during RD anyway. There really are not that many advantages to applying REA.

  1. You find out earlier than normal.
  2. They have no limit on the number of students they can admit (unlike RD where they will stop at 2300).</p>
5

<p>I think it should be noted the acceptance rate is very different:</p>

<p>EA Acceptance Rate
753/5566 = 13.53%</p>

<p>RD Acceptance Rate
1547/26,434 = 5.85% (doesn’t account for deferred, which makes it even lower) </p>

<p>Some say REA has more competitive candidates, but over 2x? I honestly have no idea. I applied REA because Stanford was my first choice and knowing in December would be relieving either way. I am Hispanic though, so I guess you would consider me hooked. However, I’ve viewed myself as average overall, especially compared to other applicants.</p>

6

<p>Well look, I think the first thing we all need to understand in that Stanford is well Stanford. Its one of the most outstanding schools in the world, and there are a seemingly infinite number of outstanding students eager to apply for their spot in the Stanford class. Now, the number of these great students they can take is even further limited because schools have to admit hooked applicants (URMS, legacy, recruits) who often aren’t as academically qualified as their peers. So, at the end of the day, basically no one is a guarenteed admit. In fact, no matter who you are, you’re basically a guarenteed reject (I’d say Stanford’s nearly 6% RD acceptance rate affirms this). </p>

<p>So, the moral of the story is your right, USNAgolden. Stanford will more than likely crush you if you apply and aren’t blessed with a rich dad who went to Stanford, are native american, or could play in the major league for baseball. Its a sad message, but one we ALL need to embrace. If Stanford is your top choice school, then apply REA but try your best to be more detached in the process (I know its hard…Princeton crushed me this year). </p>

<p>However, there is some hope. America is blessed with MANY top schools. Just because Stanford rejects you doesn’t mean that Yale or UChicago will. We apply to 8 of the top 10 schools to maximize our chances. And, for the majority of us more vocal members on CC, I think elite schools typically fall into our lap. So CHEER UP USNAgolden! You got Duke…thats a fantastic place!</p>

7

<p>Duke is a great school. Stanford is just a little more prestigous they both offer great opputunties. forget Stanford and do you best at Duke</p>

8

<p>Well, you also have to factor in the idea that 90%+ of applicants will have their dreams “crushed”, so to speak.</p>

9

<p>To the OP, I don’t mean to be offensive, but maybe your essays and recs weren’t as great as you thought they were? I honestly can’t fathom how anyone could possibly say their essays/recs were amazing when all of it is subjective in the view of the adcoms.</p>

<p>Stanford, more than any other school, admits based on essays. I agree completely with MSauce’s observation after attending both Bulldog Days and Admit Weekend – Stanford’s admits seem to be less qualified in terms of awards or test scores, but they likely had some of the best essays in the pool.</p>

<p>Moreover, I want to dispel the notion that you have to be amazingly hooked to get in REA. I applied early (typical Asian applicant, decent at art, good test scores, mediocre recs, mediocre EC’s, tried my best on the essays) and got in. It’s really about how you present yourself to Stanford, not about how many community service hours you have or how many clubs you lead. In fact, having too many activities spread out like that may make it seem like you’re less dedicated to each one and Stanford, like most other top schools, seeks passion.</p>

<p>So, really, you shouldn’t get deterred from applying REA. It’s not any harder to get in during REA than it is during RD. If Stanford is your first choice, then you might as well apply and find out in December.</p>

10

<p>

Let me give you a counterexample. My S got in Yale’s SCEA, spent 4 hours total to prepare Stanford’s application and sent in, and came to Stanford.</p>

11

<p>nluu0929: more like 93.5%. lol</p>

12

<p>@ewho</p>

<p>There are going to be outliers/anomalies no matter what, though I’m not necessarily implying your son is one. He’s probably a naturally good writer or really passionate about something. It’s not like Stanford DOESN’T admit based on test scores and accolades, but I’m just saying that how you present yourself seems to be much more important to Stanford than to the other elite colleges.</p>

13

<p>One…hundred…hours…? Are you kidding me? </p>

<p>Well anyway, good luck at Duke. It’s a great school and you have nothing to be bummed about. I applied there too and was accepted. Would’ve attended if I didn’t get in here.</p>

14

<p>

I don’t know. He got 8 on his SAT essay, and his IB paper was the 2009 model perfect paper. He lost total 50 points of all his SAT I and SATIIs. To me, it seems that you implied Yale has better student body than Stanford does, I don’t know where do you get this concept. And when you were talking about awards, what kinds of awards did you refer to? On Stanford threads, you would see an IMO Gold medalist posting here, you just don’t know who he is. Try to provide the facts to support your statements, not use your biased personal observations. If you don’t like Stanford, you should not have applied in the first place.</p>

<p>You probably will see a Putnam Fellow when you get in Yale, he was “imported” from China last year. And he was the only one from Yale got into top 75 of Putnam contest.</p>

15

<p>USNA you sound like a truly fantastic applicant and person. A rejection doesn’t change that.</p>

<p>In reality, though, most everyone who applies to Stanford is worthy of going there. From what you posted it sounded as if you almost EXPECTED to get in-- which nobody, not even a 36/2400 applicant, should do. I realize that you really wanted to go there. But again, they have to, as they say, “disappoint the vast number of applicants who apply each year.” Realizing you worked hard on your essays and were totally worthy and deserving of going there-- so is everyone else. </p>

<p>As for what you said about applying early, I have to disagree. I applied early, and I was deferred. When it came to the RD round, I was up against some truly incredible people, and I got accepted over them (school val and sal, for example, where I’m top 1.5% of a big public HS). What made the difference? I truly believe that it was the fact that I had applied early. I think it just gave me that extra edge over them. Even though I wasn’t accepted in the early round, I think it still helped me down the road. </p>

<p>So, realizing your disappointment (which you should be long over by now because you’re going to DUKE!), I think you’re STILL making the assumption that you would have gotten in in the regular round. This is exactly the thinking that led you to be disappointed now–because you EXPECTED it. I don’t mean this offensively, but if you didn’t get in when the acceptance rate is roughly 13%, what makes you think you’d have gotten in when the acceptance rate was 5.8%? </p>

<p>Best of luck at Duke. I’m sure you will find just as much happiness there as you would at Stanford. And if it makes you feel better, I got into Stanford and was waitlisted at Duke. Go figure! haha</p>

16

<p>I’m like llpitch, 100+ hours? Really?
The admissions sound really random to say the least and it sucks that you’ll never know why.
But then again the school is extremely selective, so can you really expect to get in?
Albeit you’re without a hook.</p>

17

<p>lol against my own better judgement, I’ve returned to read the comments.</p>

<p>Okay 1st: About the 100 hours. The essays were also for my composition class (ie were graded) and almost all of my Stanford essays were adapted to my other schools. I would have stopped long before 100, but my teacher kept pushing me to improve them (and they really did get better). </p>

<p>2nd: The idea that my essays weren’t good enough/I expected to get in. I totally did not expect to get in, but I really wanted to. It’s a rather subtitle difference, I apologize if my message was misconstrued. And I poured my heart out in my essays (a few of them went on to place in national writing contests). I’m confident that they were good enough (though that obviously doesn’t make them, or me, the best in the adcom’s eyes). Obviously others were better, but mine were good.</p>

<p>Umm as for the other counterarguments, I’m just trying to offer my perspective. Yes Stanford admissions are seemingly arbitrary (though there must be some method to the madness), but I feel like at the very least EA doesn’t help and, for someone who is totally unhooked, could even be a disadvantage. </p>

<p>Just my thoughts. Just trying to help.
I’m very happy with Duke. :slight_smile:
I’m an Econ/Euro Studies double major, so being closer to Europe is actually a blessing. Plus Duke has the second best French department in the country behind Yale, so I definitely cannot complain.</p>

<p>I love all of you and wish all acceptees and prospective students the best of luck!</p>

<p>Dan</p>

18

<p>

</p>

<p>I am a Yale future student as well, and I’m glad TA noticed the same thing I did. I quoted this post because I just wanted to say that the idea that essays are taken more into account is not what I’m saying at all.</p>

<p>What’s clear is that each of the HYPS schools have significantly different admissions policies. While there are many cross-admits, all of the HYPS schools manage to secure Yields upwards from 60%, meaning that there is only a limited amount of overlap.</p>

<p>I think we all know it takes an excellent student to get into any of these schools, with high level Scores, ECs, Essays, and many times Special Recognition.</p>

<p>But I think each of the HYPS schools weight these factors differently. What I noticed about Yale admits, more than other admits, was their well-roundedness. I didn’t meet a ton of domestic non-athletes/performers at Bulldog Days, and it seemed to me that Yale was willing to forgive a lack of excellence (like major awards and etc.) for a higher variety of interest. I thought, for example, Harvard was the opposite, willing to forgive a lack of diversity in interests for excellence in particular subject.</p>

<p>Looking at profiles on CC (as well as Princeton Preview) I also perceived Princeton was willing to forgive deficiencies in certain areas for higher stats, and Stanford was willing to forgive deficiencies for essays.</p>

<p>None of these things are necessarily better than the other. Many feel stats should be the overwhelmingly dominating factor in acceptances. Some feel it should be about how well-rounded you are, while others will ask why it is necessary for someone whose dream is to be a Nobel Prize-winner in Chemistry to act in the school play.</p>

<p>And with Stanford, I think its reasonable for a school to say “Look, we’ve got a group of maybe 7-8K applicants that are pretty great in almost every category. Why is a kid who has an Intel scholarship necessarily a better fit for our school than one who is doesn’t, but matches up on most other levels, and is far more likeable?” And they’ll still end up with just as excellent a class as a school that focuses on different parts of the application.</p>

<p>And that’s not to say Stanford isn’t going to admit a person with poor essays, or Yale isn’t going to admit a person with a lack of well-rounded ECs, or etc. But I think that’s how they lean in weighting the applications they get. Obviously, Stanford is going to love an Intel award winner, but I think they weigh the essays more heavily than the other schools do. And their supplement reflects that–with three extra short essays requested.</p>

19

<p>^I agree completely with what MSauce just said.</p>

<p>I’m not implying that Yale has a better student body, just different. You can hardly argue that the schools weigh aspects of the application differently – HYP, just from my personal observations (FWIW), seem much more focused on test scores/accomplishments. Stanford, on the other hands, seems to focus much more on the essays. Of course there will be IMO gold medalists at Stanford. In fact, I personally know an Intel finalist who’ll be attending next year, but that doesn’t change the fact that Stanford admissions is much more heavily centered around essays than are HYP’s.</p>

<p>And FWIW, nearly every single person I met at Yale was some sort of cross-admit to HPSM. However, at Stanford, around half were cross-admits to other top schools while half were just set on Stanford. These are just personal observations and are obviously statistically insignificant. I won’t speculate as to why the dynamic was the way it was – it could just be that many Stanford admits didn’t even bother applying to HYPM.</p>

<p>Moreover, I never asserted my observations to be facts – they’re just observations. Obviously anecdotal evidence from one cross-admit is hardly valuable statistically speaking or even qualitatively speaking, but I just thought I’d offer my two cents on what I noticed on both campuses. </p>

<p>“If you don’t like Stanford, you should not have applied in the first place.”</p>

<p>^I’m not sure where the last statement came from. I obviously love Stanford and it was my first choice for the longest time. You’ve no idea how hard it was for me to turn it down in the end (due to personal reasons).</p>

20

<p>Hi USNA :)</p>

<p>Let me just preface this by saying: DUKKKKKEEEEEEE!!!</p>

<p>Anyway, it’s weird but I have a feeling I was included in the anecdotal evidence that you provided in your OP. I never thought we would end up going to Duke together but I’m so excited! I wouldn’t say that applying SCEA hurts people, but it definitely doesn’t give people the perceived advantage.</p>