Forbes College Rankings 2010 are OUT! Williams is #1

<p>And here’s how the Ivy League stacks up against the Big Ten in this prestigious academic competition:</p>

<ol>
<li>Ohio State 3.46</li>
<li>Purdue 3.29</li>
<li>Michigan 3.28</li>
<li>(tie) Iowa 3.26</li>
<li>(tie) Wisconsin 3.26</li>
<li>(tie) Indiana 3.22</li>
<li>(tie) Nebraska 3.22</li>
<li>(tie) Illinois 3.21</li>
<li>(tie) BROWN 3.21</li>
<li>Minnesota 3.19</li>
<li>CORNELL 3.17</li>
<li>(tie) Michigan State 2.98</li>
<li>(tie) Penn State 2.98</li>
<li>HARVARD 2.95</li>
<li>PRINCETON 2.85</li>
<li>PENN 2.65</li>
<li>Northwestern 2.65</li>
<li>YALE 2.59</li>
<li>DARTMOUTH 2.54</li>
<li>COLUMBIA 2.37</li>
</ol>

<p>"COLUMBUS, Ohio, Friday, August 13 – The results are in and the students have spoken loud and clear. According to the highly regarded Ratemyprofessor.com survey, the Big Ten universities handily trounced their once-prestigious private Ivy League counterparts in the competition for ‘overall quality’ of their classroom professors. </p>

<p>"Among the Ivies, only Brown came in above the combined Big Ten-Ivy League median, albeit by the slightest of margins. Among the Big Ten schools, only perennial academic laggard Northwestern fell into the bottom quartile, along with fellow underperformers Penn, Yale, Dartmouth, and Columbia. </p>

<p>"In a surprising upset, football powerhouse Ohio State sealed a decisive victory over all Big Ten-Ivy League challengers in the academic competition. </p>

<p>“‘Ain’t no surprise to me,’ said Ohio State linebacker Thomas ‘Nails’ Nagorski. ‘We kick butt on the field, and our profs kick butt in the classroom!’”</p>

<p>^^^Classic! :-)</p>

<p>"‘Ain’t no surprise to me,’ said Ohio State linebacker Thomas ‘Nails’ Nagorski. ‘We kick butt on the field, and our profs kick butt in the classroom!’</p>

<p>Perhaps the linebacker got a “bonus” grade from his teachers?</p>

<p>My S took a summer course in Northwestern and he told me the professor was teaching the wrong level course, and didn’t even know it. I was paying 13,000 for the 8 week course, and when I asked him why he didn’t speak to the professor about it, he told me that professors were unapproachable, and that students had to speak to the TAs instead.<br>
When my S returned from the course, I felt as if I had wasted my money, because he also told me that he didn’t feel he could ask questions in class. When I told a friend that was a former Northwestern student about it, he said that only idiots asked questions; lectures were only for students to listen to teachers. So when my S was accepted to Williams, and I read that there was a 7:1 student to teacher ratio, and that Williams was a TEACHING institution, I was VERY glad he had been accepted. What do I care if the professor is an eminence in his field, or has won the Nobel Prize, if he won’t actually TEACH his students? My S is an undergraduate student, and I wanted a school that would treat him as one.</p>

<p>Now that I think about it, the best thing that came out of my S attending Northwestern’s Summer Session, was that it helped him to choose Williams. It doesn’t matter how well-known a school is; what matters is what it gives YOU.</p>

<p>Reprise: Ratemyprofessors.com average for all Big Ten and Ivy League schools:</p>

<ol>
<li>Ohio State 3.46</li>
<li>Purdue 3.29</li>
<li>Michigan 3.28</li>
<li>(tie) Iowa 3.26</li>
<li>(tie) Wisconsin 3.26</li>
<li>(tie) Indiana 3.22</li>
<li>(tie) Nebraska 3.22</li>
<li>(tie) Illinois 3.21</li>
<li>(tie) BROWN 3.21</li>
<li>Minnesota 3.19</li>
<li>CORNELL 3.17</li>
<li>(tie) Michigan State 2.98</li>
<li>(tie) Penn State 2.98</li>
<li>HARVARD 2.95</li>
<li>PRINCETON 2.85</li>
<li>PENN 2.65</li>
<li>Northwestern 2.65</li>
<li>YALE 2.59</li>
<li>DARTMOUTH 2.54</li>
<li>COLUMBIA 2.37</li>
</ol>

<p>"CAMBRIDGE, Mass, Friday, August 13 — Reaction was muted across the Ivy League today to news that the once-mighty Ivies had fallen far short of the upstart Big Ten conference in the annual Big Ten-Ivy League Academic Challenge. Schools from both leagues compete for the highest Overall Performance by Classroom Professors as measured by the prestigious Ratemyprofessors.com academic rating service. Trophies are awarded to the top individual school and to the conference with the highest median score.</p>

<p>"The Big Ten took both individual and conference prizes in this year’s competition. Ohio State topped the field with a commanding 3.46 score, easily outdistancing Big Ten rivals Purdue (3.29) and Michigan (3.28) for individual honors. No Ivy came in higher than 8th, and 7 of that conference’s 8 members finished in the bottom half of the field. In the conference competition, the Big Ten’s median score of 3.215 blew past the Ivy League’s anemic 2.8 rating. </p>

<p>"Some observers thought the group competition was even more lopsided than the final tally suggested, because the Big Ten’s overall score was dragged down by the poor showing of conference laggard Northwestern, which finished in the bottom quartile along with Ivy also-rans Penn, Yale, Dartmouth, and Columbia. Some Big Ten provosts were rumored to be questioning privately whether Northwestern was still capable of competing in the Big Ten academically, or whether it was sinking inexorably to Ivy League levels. Those rumors could not be confirmed as no Big Ten provost was willing to speak on the record. Speculation has swirled in Big Ten circles that Northwestern may be weighing a decision to leave the conference voluntarily rather than risk a humiliating expulsion if the classroom performance of its professors does not improve.</p>

<p>"In Ivy League country, expressions were mostly stoic as news of the Big Ten’s decisive academic triumph spread. Ivy League provosts would not speak for the record except to offer their perfunctory congratulations to the Big Ten victors. A few Ivy undergrads questioned whether the Big Ten had an unfair advantage in the competition because Ratemyprofessors.com rates professors on a scale of ‘easiness,’ with easier professors getting higher marks. But Big Ten officials were quick to dispel that notion, pointing out that while students often use Ratemyprofessors.com to identify the easiest professors, ‘easiness’ does not count in the professor’s ‘overall quality’ score which is based solely on a professor’s ‘helpfulness’ and ‘clarity.’ </p>

<p>"Critics, including some at Big Ten schools, nonetheless argue the conferences’ use of the Ratemyprofessors.com rating as a proxy for academic quality, or even for the quality of the classroom experience, is misguided. </p>

<p>"‘When I teach I’m looking for something beyond clarity and helpfulness,’ said one Big Ten prof currently visiting at Harvard who declined to be identified for this story. ‘Call me old-fashioned, but I still think content matters; you can be clear and helpful while not teaching your students very much, and as long as you give a lot of A’s you’ll get exceedingly high marks for overall quality as well as easiness on Ratemyprofessors. That may be what some students want, but my own view is that the professor’s job is to get students to grapple with challenging material, to tackle complexity and uncertainty, and above all to get them to think, and to learn how to think. Those things don’t always win you high marks in clarity, and certainty not in easiness. It makes me question the usefulness of the Ratemyprofessors rating, but given the Big Ten’s smashing victory in the Academic Challenge, I suppose that’s not a popular view among my colleagues right now.’ </p>

<p>“One of the few Ivy Leaguers to speak candidly about the humiliating Ivy defeat was Harvard senior class president Hampton Rogers ‘Biff’ Ellsworth IV. ‘We may no longer be competitive in football or academically,’ Ellsworth said. ‘But scr** it, they’ll never beat us at crew.’”</p>

<p>@Sara12 - You’re welcome. Bowdoin, Bates, and Colby are each tremendous schools located in an amazing state.</p>

<p>FYI, a couple links re Colby’s art museum and increased alumni funding. Also worth nothing that while Colby’s endowment (which is still comparatively low due to the capital investment of the campus rebuild in the '30’s) is less than Bowdoin’s, Colby took less of a hit than Bowdoin during the financial crisis.</p>

<p>Re Art Museum: [Bob</a> Keyes: Colby shares its gifts | The Portland Press Herald / Maine Sunday Telegram](<a href=“http://www.pressherald.com/life/audience/sharing-its-gifts_2010-07-18.html]Bob”>Bob Keyes: Colby shares its gifts)
Re Fundraising: [Colby</a> surpasses $370M fundraising goal | The Portland Press Herald / Maine Sunday Telegram](<a href=“http://www.pressherald.com/news/Maines-Colby-surpasses-370M-goal-.html]Colby”>Colby surpasses $370M fundraising goal)</p>

<p>@brooklynrob</p>

<p>the claim that Colby fared the economic crisis better than Bowdoin is preposterous. it is well documented that their endowment fell by over 25%, while Bowdoin’s fell by less than 17%.</p>

<p>[Endowment</a> disclosure - The Bowdoin Orient](<a href=“http://orient.bowdoin.edu/orient/article.php?date=2008-11-14&section=2&id=1]Endowment”>http://orient.bowdoin.edu/orient/article.php?date=2008-11-14&section=2&id=1)</p>

<p>[Endowment</a> investment returns decline 17% in fiscal year 2009 - The Bowdoin Orient](<a href=“http://orient.bowdoin.edu/orient/article.php?date=2009-09-18&section=1&id=3]Endowment”>http://orient.bowdoin.edu/orient/article.php?date=2009-09-18&section=1&id=3)</p>

<p>@Who ever was saying that Colby stands up to Bowdoin academically</p>

<p>First off, with all due respect, I don’t know how someone who graduated Colby thirty years ago thinks he/she knows present day Bowdoin (or Colby for that matter) well enough to compare the two schools department by department. </p>

<p>The fact is that by Colby’s own numbers Bowdoin spends nearly 45% more per student in endowment dollars than Colby. </p>

<p>[Colby</a> College | Endowment](<a href=“http://www.colby.edu/campaign/endowment/index.cfm]Colby”>http://www.colby.edu/campaign/endowment/index.cfm)</p>

<p>And Bowdoin’s acceptance rate is more than 10% lower than Colby’s. </p>

<p>Obviously “input” isn’t ultimately what matters, but here’s some evidence of output. The London School of Economics and Political Science (a pretty reliable source) ranked Bowdoin’s Government Department as being the best Government Department among liberal arts colleges in-the-world (by measure of how many times it’s professors were cited by other academics). Colby didn’t even come close. </p>

<p>[Bowdoin’s</a> Government and Legal Studies Named Top College Politica, Campus News (Bowdoin)](<a href=“News | Bowdoin College”>News | Bowdoin College)</p>

<p>In economics, Bowdoin has also been ranked well above Colby. Union College does a ranking-- Colby didn’t even make the list. Bowdoin came in 5th. </p>

<p>www1.union.edu/senerm/_private/Rankings.pdf</p>

<p>Where do Bowdoin students go after graduation?</p>

<p>Wall Street Journal says that, as a percentage of graduates, more Bowdoin students go on to the 15 most selective graduate programs than from all but 18 colleges or universities in the United States. Colby makes that list, too. It’s somewhere in the 50’s.</p>

<p>wsjclassroom.com/pdfs/wsj<em>college</em>092503.pdf</p>

<p>As I said. Colby is Bowdoin’s [lady dog].</p>

<p>they use who’s who in their ranking methodology?
what a sham</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>YES. That’s about as nice an abstract of my hypothesis (@post#118) as I could have asked for and it also reflects a lot of the conventional wisdom regarding Northwestern’s role in the Big Ten – that it is the least rah-rah in spirit of all the schools in that league.</p>

<p>I have my own theory on this. Elite(ist) students in the Ivy League look down at others who they feel are not in their class. Most of their professors did not necessarily attend IL schools as undergrads, therefore they are not worthy of high ratings.</p>

<p>@Tzar09 - </p>

<p>No doubt Bowdoin’s economics and government are excellent and I’ve seen the same results/rankings you have. For my money, when I look at the line up of professors and their academic publications in government or economics, I’d choose Colby. In pure sciences, I think Bowdoin has Colby beat. I think it’s well understood based on this discussion thread alone that rankings are not always accurate.</p>

<p>I’m also not arguing that Bowdoin’s endowment isn’t higher - it is. I’ve also seen the same public endowment numbers you have and cite in your reply. But my understanding was that from the market peak (the Orient numbers just show points in time at the end of each fiscal year) the decline was larger at Bowdoin - this is based on discussions I’ve had with friends who are Bowdoin alums. I could be mistaken.</p>

<p>As I pointed out in my earlier post, Bowdoin has traditionally beat Colby at getting students placed in graduate schools, internships, and entry level positions at places such as investment banks and consultancies. Bowdoin still “wins” by that measure, but Colby has done a lot to improve in this area and I think over the next 5-10 years the results of these efforts will show up more in graduate school placement results. </p>

<p>On acceptance, I mentioned that Colby’s acceptance rate has become more exclusive on the order of 10 points over the last 15-20 years or so - from the low 40’s to it’s current rate of 32%. I’m not arguing that Bowdoin’s rate isn’t more selective - it is.</p>

<p>You’re clearly passionate about Bowdoin and that’s great. I stated pretty clearly that I agree Bowdoin is still the better regarded school. It’s an amazing place. Bunch of co-workers and good friends went there…</p>

<p>But what I think has changed it that I’ve noticed Colby - its administration, alumni, students - have become comparatively less concerned with where we “rank and stack” compared with Bowdoin, and more concerned with what we as a Colby community can do to strengthen our school/alma mater and in turn distinguish ourselves beyond Waterville. I think losing the “keeping up with the Jones” mentality has been cathartic for Colby and helped it focus on what really matters much more. I graduated 15 years ago (not 30) and when I was at Colby then there was a palpable “we’re not Bowdoin” sentiment. Shedding that is great for Colby. Remember that the Red Sox were the Yankee’s “lady dog” (to quote Pedro) until the Red Sox stopped obsessing about the Yankees and instead focused on just being a great Red Sox team. I think that’s an apt comparison with what Colby is trying to do.</p>

<p>Finally, you surely know that the 3 schools do a lot of alumni events together, especially abroad. I’ve observed in the professional world that CBB alums look out for each other (I take a very vested interest at work in the careers of junior folks who graduated from Bowdoin). Bowdoin is the traditional #1 - I’m not denying that - but all 3 schools benefit when any of the 3 improve because they are so often viewed as a “group” when you get much beyond the Hudson River. Root for Bowdoin all you want, but a strong Colby and Bates is a positive for Bowdoin.</p>

<p>I like how Pitt’s cost is listed as “n/a” and its total student population shown as 81. Forbes fail.</p>

<p>LOL. Forbes has mixed up the two Wheaton Colleges.</p>

<p><a href=“http://chronicle.com/blogPost/Were-No-59-Or-Is-It-244-/26218/?sid=pm&utm_source=pm&utm_medium=en[/url]”>http://chronicle.com/blogPost/Were-No-59-Or-Is-It-244-/26218/?sid=pm&utm_source=pm&utm_medium=en&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>EDIT: Upon closer look, Forbes seems to have fixed the data:</p>

<p>Wheaton College (The Christian LAC in illinois) is #59</p>

<p>Wheaton College (LAC in MA) is #244.</p>

<p>Mental patients have written better rankings with their own feces. Year in and year out Forbes puts out a list so bad it shouldn’t be published.</p>

<p>okay, i remember college of wooster being above 100 last year and now its 125? this year they seemed to have a lot of research successes, professors got a bunch of important accolades (which IMO should be the most important criteria for any school) and not to mention even using conventional (i.e. flawed) data, they are welcoming the strongest freshman class in years… shouldnt it at least have kept its rank?? and LOL at sarah lawrence’s 100+ drop. did they REALLY have that rough of a year?</p>

<p>these are hardly the only strange rankings on this list… but then again… this is why college rankings and people’s obsession with prestige is ludicrious so much of the time. what ever happened to what school offers each individual student the best intellectual growth, not the most prestige?</p>

<p>LOL</p>

<p>Berkeley is #65</p>

<p>Forbes should stop making rankings, that doesn’t embarass themselves. </p>

<p>Seriously. </p>

<p>I could make a better ranking without even looking at college information.</p>

<p>UCLA is #71? Cornell is #70? </p>

<p>LOL. This list is complete ********.</p>

<p>If you take this list and randomize it, it would probably end up more accurate.</p>

<p>UCLA is #71? Cornell is #70? </p>

<p>I think you’re missing the point of doing a study like this…you do it to find out how schools rank GIVEN CERTIAN CRITERIA. You don’t start out with the rankings and then build criteria that support them. Check out “begging the question.”</p>

<p>to what extent , if any, does forbes use peer assessment in its criteria? </p>

<p>We know that the ‘default ranking service’ in our culture, USNR, uses PA and that it accounts for 25 pct of the weight , I believe.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>…and go from visceral feelings. PA , I bet, is ALOT like non-peer assessment, since I think that alot of the assessment that college admins or whoever are called upon to make these assessments, use ‘gut’, newspaper headlines, or visceral impressions , not unlike regular ol’ people - since that is what they are, of course.</p>