<p>Caution is in order here, IMO. A relative of mine is a civil engineer in a pretty
large firm. His salary in 1987 was about $50K. His salary in 2007 was about
$110K. No bonuses ever, one lay-off (he eventually got rehired with a pay cut) and perhaps another to come.
I'm talking big city, not Podunk. You can stagnate very easily in engineering
if you aren't opportunisitic. There have been lots of foreign-born and trained engineers
in his field too. I think they drag down the salary levels. Do not think short-term when you see salary levels, they do not mean much after awhile.
A couple of weeks ago CNBC did a report on the need for more engineers
in the US and a caller (or e-mailer) pointed out that she left the field because of the salary issue. If you have the ability to stick out the academics
and do well, get the degree and go into a general management position or
some other field. It's still a great all-purpose degree to have.</p>
<p>" These are dwarfed by starting salaries at major firms in major legal markets, which average $145,000 in Chicago, LA and DC, and $160,000 in New York. At those rates it takes 2-3 years to recoup the investment, opportunity costs included."</p>
<p>Yes, but in those jobs you get in 4-5 years worth of work in 2-3 years. On an hourly rate it's not so great.</p>
<p>"Median salary for lawyers:
1-4 years $67,178
5-9 years $91,221
10-19 years $95,901"</p>
<p>Take the two-year cost of the community college for an RN, and subtract it from the four-year cost for the prestige private for the future lawyer, and bank it. Bank 10% of the nurse's income starting the year out of college. Bank the three-year cost of law school, as well as 10% of the nurse's income. Let it accrue at the average stockmarket rate of 11% before taxes, as well as adding in the increases for the nurse's salary (as you would for the lawyer.)</p>
<p>The median lawyer would be well into his/her late 40s or 50s before catching up to the two-year degreed RN.</p>
<p>Nobody uses the word Programmer anymore. The job title is software engineer.</p>
<p>No Software Engineers in my IS department, nor other 8 places in my carrier. We call ourselves Programmers and that is what written in our Resumes. However, I have seen this terminology and always wonder what that means. Well, we decided at lunch that if we start calling ourselves Engineers, maybe we can demand more $$$, just kidding, it did put us in a better mood though.</p>
<p>MiamiDAP - For CS/CE graduates,
[quote]
the term programmer is sometimes considered an insulting or derogatory oversimplification of these other professions.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Programmer</a> - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia</p>
<p>zen</a> perfect Blog Archive Computer Science vs Programming (Software Engineering)</p>
<p>Software Engineering is usually more math oriented. It also may encompass the whole software engineering process including project management, testing, writing specifications, gathering product requirements, development and debugging. Engineering is frequently associated with making products for resale, sometimes for mass markets.</p>
<p>The titles programmer, programmer/analyst frequently refer to those that work in-house or as consultants. I worked as a programmer/analyst back in the 1980s and moved to software engineering several years later. We also had business analysts that had no technical background - they interfaced with our internal customers to design systems from a technical perspective and handed requirements off to the technical team. These people generally had a good business background. The programmer/analyst could do this too which could save some communications times as the programmer/analyst would understand the technical and business sides.</p>
<p>Hey guys. this thread is very captivating, and it plays into my question here.</p>
<p>I"m currently in high school, and thinking about college. Either I want to go into the business world, or engineering. If I do go into business, I would definently get an MBA. </p>
<p>If you guys have any experience, do share it, and what is your take? I'm interested in both and I can handle the workload and get through it. </p>
<p>What do you guys suggest?</p>
<p>One other thing, what do you guys mean when you say that all these engineering guys are ending up at wall street???</p>
<p>A lot of engineers end up doing finance related jobs. At my college, 20% of the graduating EE majors went on to finance.</p>
<p>I would say do engineering undergrad then do an MBA. If you do business undergrad there's no way you can do engineering grad.</p>
<p>true, however it probably depends on the quality of the business school. i bet that wharton majors make more right out of school than penn econ majors.</p>
<p>If you do business undergrad there's no way you can do engineering grad. - that is VERY true. </p>
<p>Engineering is it! It is a profession. MBA ia a degree, I (Programmer) have it, my husband Electrical Engineer has it, my manager has it. Your future/salary will depend on your position in organization. You will get into management if you have a desire to do so and get promoted, not because you have MBA. However, MBA from Ivy's is a different story, I am not familiar with that, I will let somebody else talk about it.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Take the two-year cost of the community college for an RN, and subtract it from the four-year cost for the prestige private for the future lawyer, and bank it. Bank 10% of the nurse's income starting the year out of college. Bank the three-year cost of law school, as well as 10% of the nurse's income. Let it accrue at the average stockmarket rate of 11% before taxes, as well as adding in the increases for the nurse's salary (as you would for the lawyer.)</p>
<p>The median lawyer would be well into his/her late 40s or 50s before catching up to the two-year degreed RN.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Forget going to college. Forget getting a job. Sell cocaine to Ivy league students. Bank the two year cost of the community college and the 3 year cost of law school and for good measure the 4 year cost of med school. Buy a house at a subprime rate. Rent it out to illegal immigrants by the room. Bank the difference. Place earnings in offshore accounts so that you dont have to pay taxes. Accrue balance at the average 20% rate of hedge funds. </p>
<p>The RN will need to run an HMO to catch up to the jobless, uneducated cocaine dealer. </p>
<p>I love these unrealistic financial models that can be made to show the most extravagant results. I guess I hadnt noticed that RNs owned all the fancy houses in our neighborhood!</p>
<p>Even the oft-misquoted Dale-Kruger study found that the more expensive the education, the higher the lifetime ROI.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I maintain it's silly to compare salaries of an undergrad degree as a terminal degree in fields in which many, perhaps most, view it only as a stepping-stone to a more lucrative advanced degree.
[/quote]
Then compare salaries of Engineers with law degrees versus Poli Sci majors with law degrees?</p>
<p>Is RN a Registered Nurse? Don't they require Master's Degree?</p>
<p>RN does stand for Registered Nurse. The RN is a 3-year nursing program. Next higher level would be the BSN, Bachelor of Science in Nursing. Then there are various Master's degrees in nursing.</p>
<p>Would it be better to go into a career that I know I will like and that I know I will make a lot of money or go into a career that I will like a little bit more but not necessarily make a lot of money. Specifically, I'm stuck between becoming a doctor and becoming an engineer. My plan right now is to get my undergraduate engineering degree regardless of what I decide and take the additional premed classes if I want to become a doctor. This isn't enough, though, to get into a top med school (UMich). If I decide I want to become a doctor, I'll need internships at hospitals and medical research experience on top of the premed classes. I'm just wondering, is it ok to give up a little job satisfaction for a lot more money, or at least a lot more assurance that I'll get a lot of money?</p>
<p>gladmom, not quite. </p>
<p>An RN degree can be completed in 2, 3 or 4 years. Community colleges offer 2-year Associate degrees which lead to RN licensure. Hospital programs offer 3 year programs which lead to RN licensure. Colleges offer 4 year programs, BSN, which also lead to RN licensure. </p>
<p>These degrees "lead' to the licensure because, after completing the programs, the nurses have to sit and pass the NCLEX-RN exam.</p>
<p>As far as Master's degrees... They are specializations for RNs. So an RN can get a Master's and become a Nurse Anesthesist, a Nurse Midwife, a Nurse Practitioner, a Psychiatric Nurse, etc.</p>
<p>Hmm.. how about a Math-Econ double major..</p>
<p>just wanted to contribute..</p>
<p>
[quote]
It seems like everyone goes into college wanting to be an engineering major, it's the new pre-med and pre-law. Whether they know what it entails or not, they know it supposedly pays good money so they declare themselves an engineering major. And usually get praised for it too.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Clearly false... as other people and the article have stated, the # of engineering degrees is not increasing. and it definitely has a downward trend (looking back from say, 20 years ago). </p>
<p>and i have not met many engineering majors who do not know what being an engineer entails. most of the engineers i've met have goals which actually pertain to their major.</p>
<p>rkbgt,
Do you realize how completely different Engineering and Medicine are? They require totally different mindset. Also, to go to Med. school, you will need very high undergrad GPA, which is harder to accomplish in engineering. However, some people go to Biomedical engineering and the rumor has it that Med.School Admissions value it better than Biology majors. In regard to:
"If I decide I want to become a doctor, I'll need internships at hospitals and medical research experience on top of the premed classes"
- you will definately need that. However, most people get these experiences in a summer. My D. is pre-med Zoology major (most common for pre-meds at her school), so I am familiar with this. She also will try to apply to U of Mich. Med. school when her time comes, but she has a guaranteed spot at another Med. school because she is in combined bs/md program.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Well, the ones who will eventually graduated are most likely the ones who wanted to do engineering from the beginning.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Eh? Are you sure that's not just describing your own determination? ;) </p>
<p>I love rigour, but at this point I'm not set on what I want to do. I definitely want to do something with plenty of research options; med, law and engineering once were unattractive options for me but I may take closer looks at those fields in college beyond the money because I realise I may have misconceptions. Much of my previous prejudice was based on perceptions society gave me. I used to think for example, that law and scientific research were quite incompatible fields.</p>
<p>Also, given that many people switch majors, I would say those that settle into a major in the middle of their college major may well be the ones who will graduate with that major. Why? When they take the classes, they find out what they really want, especially where different fields intersect. You have plenty of people who switch majors from their supposed high-school-dreams because when they actually took a class they found out what they <em>really</em> wanted.</p>