Fordham Ram article on Fordham's grading policy

<p>Here's an article from the Ram on Fordham's grading policy for anyone who's interested. It provides some fairly interesting insight..</p>

<p>Counterpoint: Is Grade Capping Beneficial To Students at Fordham?
Kaylee Burke</p>

<p>Rachel* is a junior here at Fordham University. In high school she was anything but average - she was an exceptional, diligent student. She took AP and honors courses and still graduated with a 3.8 GPA, placing her in the top fifth of her class. Admirably, most undergrads at Fordham can relate to Rachel's* academic performance in high school. Most Fordham students want their diligence recognized even if it means there is a rise in grade inflation.</p>

<p>According to the Princeton Review, the mean GPA of accepted students at Fordham is a 3.7. Thus, a new, higher standard must be established for an "average" grade, also known as a C. This standard should reflect the typical performance of the student body majority. </p>

<p>As concern over grade inflation grows, it is widely known that most institutions are not raising their standards. Across the board, GPAs are on the rise and, sadly, it is not because we are members of a genius generation. Why is this a problem? With a student body that is accustomed to getting A's and B's, a C is a near tragedy. When a student grows up being outstanding, it is hard to adjust to the fact that he or she is just your run of the mill student and thus deserves C's on much of his or her work.</p>

<p>Fordham administratiors, like many schools, supports the concept of raising the bar and preventing grade inflation (but that doesn't mean it is actually happening). One professor disclosed that Fordham issues guidance sheets to professors expressing the meaning of each grade. This faculty member noted that the sheet went something along the lines of, "A is outstanding/exception; B still strong; C a fine pass - the implication is that, at Fordham, a C is [a] perfectly okay grade."</p>

<p>Still, it seems, when students truly expect an A or B, it is difficult for some professors to give them otherwise unless their work is truly below the norm. Professor Kerry Sweet opined: </p>

<p>"I believe that some professors, clearly not all, may give students the grades that they - the students - want, rather than the grades that they deserve. Motivations for doing so may vary, but popularity cannot be discounted. No professor wants to get the reputation as a tough grader and therefore see enrollment in his/her classes dramatically decline. We are very aware that our grading tendencies are discussed among the student body."</p>

<p>Grade inflation would not be an important concern if it were not for the students who truly deserved A's and B's, despite the elevated standard of a selective institution. Professor Sweet went on to quote The Incredibles in saying, "When everyone is special, no one is special." Students who put in above average effort and encompass above average intelligence should be rewarded with above average grades. This is impossible when the standard is A or B.</p>

<p>While I am not a proponent of curving class grades or restricting professors from giving out a certain number of A's and B's, I do feel that we do need to revolutionize and reinvent the image of the C. C's, as Fordham tells its students, are not only acceptable, but respectable. Since below excellent GPA's are feared in the world of graduate school applications and job hunting, it is not so easy for professors to jeopardize the futures of their students by giving out C's when not-so-excellent students from other universities are rolling in with 4.0s. Therefore, we must universalize the idea (even other more and less prestigious schools) that C is not for Catastrophic. C is for Copasetic.</p>

<ul>
<li>Name has been changed</li>
</ul>

<p>Yes and pigs can fly. As if Harvard, Princeton and Yale will follow Fordham's lead? Or any other school for that matter? While some professors may be giving out higher grades in rising waters than others, I can assure you that some professors at Fordham are very much of the old school. I know of one in particular who believes that giving an A to a first semester freshman is almost criminal behavior, and giving a B to a freshmen is for extraordinary work. I commend the notion of excellence and expectations, but I also think if the bar is too high, it is deflationary not only of grades but of ambition for kids. Its pretty tough to come home with so called average grades when your neighbors are at prestigious colleges and come home with straight A's and you know it was grade inflation working in their favor.</p>

<p>I know a person at a prestigious school who got no higher than a 73 on her midterm exams, but who ended up with A's and B's on the semester. Explain that one to me.</p>

<p>There should be a balance between expecting excellence and being harsh.</p>

<p>Great article. I don't go to Fordham, but this article is probably applicable to hundred of schools out there. I think the "A" should be held to a much, much higher standard than it is today. Schools like Reed and Chicago are famous for tough grading and still draw top students and graduate them every year. Grade moderation is necessary to counterbalance the incredible grade inflation.</p>

<p>"When everyone is special, no one is special."</p>

<p>This is the crux. A top high school student looking for a top college has a better opportunity to stand out where the average GPA at the college is closer to 3.0 than 4.0. Grad schools account for the average GPA at undergrad schools.</p>

<p>I don't think grad schools generally admit students with a GPA under 3, and I think they require GPA's of above 3 in the field the student is heading for grad school in. I suppose a report card full of C's, where C is a "perfectly okay grade", is fine for someone who just wants to be able to say they have a degree when they apply for a job, but for kids headed to grad school, a report card with a lot of C's on it will be a problem.</p>

<p>Are the professors at Fordham generally supportive of students wanting to go on to graduate school? Or are most kids who want to go to Fordham not interested in grad school?</p>

<p>Hmmm.</p>

<p>This makes the administration at Fordham is in favor of driving down Fordham GPA's, and that Fordham GPA's could soon be so low as to make many Fordham students not be competitive for grad school or med school or law school.</p>

<p>"for kids headed to grad school, a report card with a lot of C's on it will be a problem."
They should have a problem. What were they doing earning C's? Does a true C average student qualify/deserve to be in grad school if he/she received a B average from a grade-inflated school? Let not kid ourselves by thinking that all those who want to attend grad school have the intelligence and/or academic preparedness that make them grad school material. Furthermore, grad school admissions aren't exactly ignorant on the subject, they know what grade inflation and deflation are, and where they occur. A B- at Cal Tech in nanotechnology might impress a lot of grad schools more than an A at most other technical universities.</p>

<p>"This makes the administration at Fordham is in favor of driving down Fordham GPA's, and that Fordham GPA's could soon be so low as to make many Fordham students not be competitive for grad school or med school or law school."</p>

<p>This problem can be solved easily by doing what Dartmouth is doing: gives the class average GPA for each class that appears on the transcript. For example:</p>

<p>HS200-History of Rome<strong><em>B+ (3.33)</em></strong><strong>Class Average (3.7)</strong><em>25th percentile(3.5)</em><strong><em>75th percentile</em></strong>_(3.9)</p>

<p>This puts into perspective the difficulty of the class and how tough the professor might be. If you earn an A- while 2/3 of the class is getting an A, then your A- isn't worth much in that context. This will help grad schools understand your individual performance in each of your classes better. It will also reveal the cupcake classes you are taking to boost up your GPA, and at the same time rewards those who take hard classes and get lower grades than other.</p>

<p>Another problem with grade inflation is that it takes away the ability to see clearly what one's GPA really means. C once meant 'average'--as in turning in homework most of the time, did the basics to satisfactory level--and B meant 'promising, but not exceptional. Now that B has become the new C, it leaves you very little room at the top to distinguish a top, one of a kind student from the above-average crowd.</p>

<p>the real problem is that other schools dont grade fairly. I guess this is how fordham builds a sense of quality in their education. Encouraging students to run the extra mile for that same A, or else C galore.</p>

<p>Since Fordham is selective and becoming more selective every year, the average student accepted at Fordham probably has good grades and good test scores. When average Fordham students graduate, most should be good candidates for grad school. Reddune's idea is a great idea and it would cheer up people when they get their first C in a class where most people get C's "doing what Dartmouth is doing: gives the class average GPA for each class that appears on the transcript. For example: HS200-History of Rome<strong><em>B+ (3.33)</em></strong><strong>Class Average (3.7)</strong><em>25th percentile(3.5)</em><strong><em>75th percentile</em></strong>_(3.9)"</p>

<p>HS200-History of Rome<strong><em>B+ (3.33)</em></strong><strong>Class Average (3.7)</strong><em>25th percentile(3.5)</em><strong><em>75th percentile</em></strong>_(3.9)</p>

<p>Reddune.</p>

<p>If the class average is 3.7 and the 75th percentile is 3.9 (both of which are usually an "A" or "A-" at many colleges, then that may well qualify as cupcake, where more than half the class has a 3.7 or above.</p>

<p>I think grad schools and employers are looking for consistently high scholarship, work ethic, and integrity.</p>

<p>Then again, some grades are rather subjective and not always perfectly scientifically objective. One person's "A" paper is another person's "B" paper.</p>