<p>S1 ('15) was in Spanish 3 this year, as our district places Honors kids in Spanish 1 in 8th grade. He struggled much of the 2nd semester with it (mid-70s) and his pronunciation is horrible. (think of a Jersey accent speaking Spanish) </p>
<p>He's clearly a math/science kid and is taking AP Chem and BC Calc next year. By dropping Spanish, he will be able to pick up a full year of CAD. He will like by an engineering major, although I could see him studying business because he's very quick to grasp concepts. Target colleges are small technical schools in the northeast, such as WPI & RPI. </p>
<p>I spoke with his guidance counselor, who was concerned about his rigorous schedule (History & English are Honors level) and thought this was a reasonable compromise. </p>
<p>Does anyone see a problem with this? (One thought is he could always pick up Latin in Senior year if colleges really want 3 years of a foreign language. He has decent ECs - will be 4yr varsity athlete and captain senior year, plus Eagle Scout).</p>
<p>When they say “three years of a foreign language”, they mean level 3 or higher in some language*, not three years of different languages.</p>
<p>Do not forget to consider college graduation requirements. Although foreign language graduation requirements for engineering majors are rare, it is common for business major degree programs to have foreign language graduation requirements that require more than level 2 of high school foreign language. The same goes for liberal arts majors, including math, statistics, economics, etc. Check each of the potential schools on the application list for details.</p>
<p>*In some cases, equivalent proficiency as demonstrated by recognized standardized tests, or college courses (typically faster paced so that a year of college language may be equivalent to two or three years of high school language) would be accepted.</p>
<p>It really depends on how selective of a college he will be looking at. Only the most selective colleges are more likely to require or recommend 3 years of (the same) foreign language, while for the almost everywhere else 2 years is sufficient. </p>
<p>You can look up the requirements for a few colleges that you think are plausible ones for him to apply to. If he hates Spanish, my inclination would be to let him stop taking it in favor of a different subject that he would enjoy more.</p>
<p>Thanks. I was a business major and did not need a foreign language and do not remember speaking with former colleagues that other schools required it. To me, it’s a ‘nice to have’, but not a requirement. I can still ready quite a bit of Spanish (only 3 years in HS) and some Portuguese, plus speak a bit when needed, but I have no ear for it so conversations are difficult. In many ways, my son is my clone, so I understand what he’s going thought. He does OK on written exams, but struggles with oral ones.</p>
<p>Many colleges consider the highest level as the number of years, so Spanish 3 would mean he’s had 3 yrs of Spanish even though the first year was during middle school. Call/email the schools to see what they say. </p>
<p>Neither WPI or RPI say anything about FL requirements for academic preparation:</p>
<p>My son took Spanish 3 as a high school freshman after having taken Spanish 1 and 2 in middle school. He never took a foreign language course again.</p>
<p>He had no trouble being admitted to colleges that require 2 or 3 years of foreign language for admission, even though only one of his three years of Spanish was taken in actual high school (rather than middle school).</p>
<p>Check with a few colleges to be sure, but in general, “three years of foreign language” typically means “foreign language through level 3” rather than “three years of foreign language taken in high school.”</p>
<p>I agree with the advice to check college websites and keep in mind that many colleges have their own FL graduation requirements. My younger son struggled with Latin in high school and in the end decided to do the fourth year even though he’d finished Latin 3 as a sophomore. He’s ended up in IR and is now struggling with Arabic! (He has said his biggest regret with Latin is not having had experience with a spoken language - he felt it put him at a real disadvantage with respect to other students.) </p>
<p>Consider also whether Spanish might be useful in his future life. As an architect I have a surprising amount of contact with Hispanics and wish all the time I’d studied Spanish instead of French and German.</p>
<p>All that said, on balance for your kid, I suspect dropping Spanish will serve him better, at least in the short run.</p>
<p>I agree that it’s a good idea to check with the schools that your kiddo is targeting to get their answer rather than our anecdotes. Our kiddos had a very tough time in the language they chose (Mandarin). </p>
<p>Our S gave it up after 3 years & chose to take a 2nd AP Physics course SR year instead of a 4th year of Mandarin. He got into many of the schools he wanted, some with significant merit awards.</p>
<p>D never got beyond 1st year Mandarin and finally gave it up as well. She transferred into her dream school with basically NO language. She fulfilled her language requirement (for her BA) by taking 2 6-week summer courses locally in German and a 3rd semester at her dream U. (She had taught herself German because she enjoyed reading it in blogs and wanted to follow a European singer.)</p>
<p>My nieces had tutoring to help them with their foreign language. </p>
<p>I took Spanish for many years in HS & conversational Spanish in college. It’s good enough to convince most Spanish-language speakers that their English is better than my Spanish and we all decide to converse in English. ;)</p>
<p>Okay–just throwing this out there as a totally science- minded person–why in the world is 3 years of a language needed to be considered “college material”? Why not just require logic problems or painting or crossword puzzles solved in pen to prove your worth?
Unless a language is needed, taught in a total submersion manner for learning, I would maintain that most foreign language courses in HS are a total waste of time.</p>
<p>D took Spanish 1 & 2 in middle school, Spanish 3 as a HS Freshman and nothing more since her HS Spanish program was terrible and she didn’t want to jeopardize her GPA. She had no problem being accepted to 11 highly selective schools and is currently an engineering student at MIT. I wouldn’t worry.</p>
<p>The HS language classes I took enabled me to place into 2nd semester, 2nd year Spanish and get a total of 13 credits plus the 3 I got for taking the course I was placed into on a pass/no pass basis. I enjoyed taking conversational Spanish until my shaky foundation in English grammar made the Spanish grammar too challenging (plus everyone taking the advanced conversational Spanish was majoring in it & I had no plans to major in it).</p>
<p>Don’t feel that my kids were impacted much by their non-mastery of foreign languages, though S said he could have gotten a foreign language bonus from employer if he had proficiency in a foreign language. He attempted the test but did not pass. :(</p>
<p>Disagree totally with post #9’s opinion regarding foreign languages. Chemistry major way back when- after 4 years worth of HS French I did the recommended German (other language rec. was Russian) including a scientific reading course. Times have changed and with computers- translations so readily available. It was interesting looking up German chemical synthesis articles when looking for reactions in one organic lab course- needed to make chrysanthemic acid (as in the odor causing compound found in chrysanthemums) from starting agents (they changed the compound shortly after my time as after too many semesters word gets around and students don’t do the research). Part of the search was to find processes with best yields- grams of starting compounds hopefully led to at least milligrams, not micrograms, of final product.</p>
<p>Regardless of future plans learning at least some of another language is very useful in understanding our own. I never was taught English grammar rules the way I was taught them in French. I was a top student (NMS etc) with an excellent mastery of the language but never taught nomenclature for all sorts of tenses et al- thank goodness. You learn there are other ways of thinking when learning a second language. A chicken and egg issue- does language help determine culture or does culture determine language? Examples include the German use of extremely compounded words, having two or three genders assigned to words that have no apparent gender affiliation, subject-verb-object word orders, idioms and so much more.</p>
<p>Requiring a foreign language has nothing to do with proving your worth. Being well educated includes all fields- not just math/sciences or humanities/social sciences. For those with a science interest getting language credits out of the way in HS leaves more room for desired fields in college. Much better to take the college level sciences than those in HS whereas a foreign language is the same no matter if learned in middle, high school or college (except perhaps the allowed vocabulary).</p>
<p>Colleges might accept language and literature in translation to meet foreign language requirements. Our son studied Mandarin for eight years and he’s handy to have around in certain areas of the US and Asia. I don’t think that he would have had any problems in college-level courses were there a language requirement but he was in a CS program with no FL requirements.</p>
<p>That said, I do think that it is useful to know a foreign language. I do run across job postings here and there where knowing a foreign language is desired.</p>
<p>Thanks heavens I’d taken German when dh decided to do a post-doctoral fellowship in Germany. And I’ve never regretted speaking French even if all I do with it is watch movies without reading the subtitles. I regret not knowing Spanish all the time.</p>
<p>I agree with wis75 that everything I know about English grammar I learned from learning foreign languages.</p>
<p>Spanish seems like it would be fairly easy to learn in the more populated areas of the US. I picked Spanish in high-school. The kids pick it up just from exposure.</p>
<p>If he’s completed Spanish 3 and hates the thought of more Spanish, I’d let him be finished with Spanish and concentrate on other things unless he’s aiming for a school that pushes for four years of FL. My S1 stopped FL after Latin 3. He ended up with a full-ride to our largest state u. and graduated with honors. He didn’t take any FL in college.</p>
<p>If the reason to learn foreign language in HS is to learn English then maybe we need better English teachers. I think learning languages is great but I think you need a very practical reason to learn them well.</p>
<p>Wis–if the definition of being educated requires a broad knowledge of all fields (and I agree totally)–why aren’t there more generalized humanities courses in HS? Actually, my HS from way back when did have one taught by a very astute English teacher–she taught major grammar/writing skills along with a little bit of art, architecture, styles of furniture, periods of history, cultures and anything else she could stuff into the year to broaden our horizons.</p>
<p>DS only had 2 years of French in high school. He was accepted at all the schools he applied to, including Brown and U of Rochester. Those two schools don’t require you to take foreign language while in college.</p>
<p>My son also only had 3 years of French. 1st year in 8th grade in middle school, 2 in HS and did not go on in a language. He has 4 years of CAD in HS and is an engineering major. French 4 was honors french in our HS and he really did not want to do it. By not taking the extra language he was able to do AP Calc and AP Physics and a year of programming. </p>
<p>I think if schools see that your son did other things instead of continuing in language they will think it is okay. If you find that he really wants to apply to a school that wants that 4th year in a language, I contacted a couple of schools and they said that while they prefer a 4 th year in the same language, they would accept a 4th in another.</p>
<p>It will be okay if he drops spanish don’t worry about that. Him dropping spanish will allow him to do so much better in the courses he enjoys more and excels in better. It will also help him to relieve the stress he may have from school and extracurricular activities. But you most remember to let your son know the IMPORTANCE of a second language in the future or after high school, especially in this day and age. More and more kids in this world are born into bilingual families and speak two languages (especially in foreign countries), they are already put at an advantage in the world not only because they can access more information from more people on the planet than a person who speaks one language, but because it is a valuable skill in the business and engineering world; a skill that makes you more valuable to companies and business’ and firms. In the world today it is invaluable to speak more than 1 language.
Speaking as an engineering student who is soon to graduate in this fall, I can tell you right now that your son should not give up in Spanish. Even if he quits in high school make sure he tests out of it in college and finishes learning the language whether in school or out of school. I waited to long and forgot to test of out french so still had to take 1 semester of french to get credit for it, and now I am finishing it outside of school through free online courses and language exchanges. It is important to test out of a language because will it allow him to have less of a semester load which will also give him more time to study in college as well for his harder classes related to his major. He would also be able to finish the language quicker in school if he decided to. It may be difficult to learn but it can be done! And it will be much easier for him to learn while he is still relatively young. Repetition is the mother of learning. It doesn’t even have to be Spanish it can be another language that he might have an interest in and might pick up faster (Although it would be wise for him just to finish spanish since he already has 2 years). The top languages that engineering companies would like students to know are english, chinese, spanish, french, german, and japanese. So don’t let your son be at a disadvantage. Don’t let him give up.</p>