Foreign Languages question from a newbie CC parent

Parents Forum
1

Hi!
I am a newbie parent here…both my husband and I went to undergrad outside US and we are learning about the college process now. I had a few questions that I am really hoping experienced parents can guide me-

My DC will be in 8th grade this coming Fall. She has good grades in a pretty competitive private school but I am realizing it in the coming years it is also important to have a spike via ECs. Unlike my other younger child who knows exactly what interests him (at least for now), she is decent at many things but not exceptional in any. We tried sports for the past few years and after watching her play tennis this week, I realized even with more lessons, private lessons, this (and other sports she’s tried out) sports will not be her forte! :))
Am I right there is no point in having her spend 6 hours going for tennis practice after school? And rather she should focus on what interests her more and what she might be better at?

I casually had a discussion with her and it seems languages come naturally to her. She shifted from French to Spanish and qualified for the Advanced Level at MS in one year. Is this something we could encourage her in and perhaps guide her to shape into a meaningful ‘spike’ in the coming years?

I know HS is still not here but it seems that her peers are all starting to pursue specific interests like dance/field hockey/music etc.
Thank you so much!

2

I vote for throwing away the tennis racket!! No sense pushing a child into a sport that they don’t have any interest in. I think your child’s interest in foreign languages is great, but don’t just assume it is automatically her passion.

There is no right or wrong answer for ECs. If the child can’t show their PASSION for an EC, it is meaningless. They need stories for essays, for interviews, etc. that communicate why they felt drawn to tutoring immigrant students, or raising money for breast cancer by hosting bake sales, or spending hours inventing something that solves a unique problem.

You probably will never know WHY your child will get accepted/rejected by any particular college. And you will probably have both acceptances and rejections. How can the same kid be liked by some schools and rejected by others? Some of it will have to do with the volume of applications received by the college. And when a college is looking at 30,000 applications to fill 800 open freshman spots, you can see that whether your child played sports or volunteered at a homeless shelter seems less crucial a decision.

All you can do is encourage your child to learn HOW to study well, have them do their work as independently as possible (increasing independence with each passing year of high school) and giving them opportunities to interact with a variety of possible hobbies and interests. It could be an academic interest that leads to being on a team that goes to national competitions, or it could be a singular interest that goes deep and doesn’t win any awards. It could be the arts/drama/music that gets them excited.

Show your child that you love them no matter what. Give them the confidence that will allow them to venture out and try new things. Don’t assume that every new venture is “the one”. Let your child try something new without having to commit to doing it the rest of high school.

There are so many avenues to explore with an interest in foreign languages. D’s college roommate is going to be a medical missionary in a spanish speaking country. You can work towards a job in the State Department. You can travel the world as a translator. You can teach English classes in China. Now you won’t do those things as a high school student, but you can talk to people who work in those kinds of jobs, and you can find ways to volunteer at libraries or other organizations that read to children who don’t speak English. So many opportunities to pursue if your child is interested.

Use family outings as a time to discover things together. Take your child to a night of music/drama/theater, a museum exhibit, travel to interesting places, interact with older and younger folks who might enjoy the child’s company and brighten their day.

Just live life and let your child soak it all in. There will be some things they will keep coming back to, if you give them some freedom and some space to explore.

3

Can you get a honest feedback about her tennis talents from some independent third-party not involved in her training? Does she work hard during tennis practices? Does she run for every ball? If she competitive in general? If not, you can safely drop it. If she works hard in practice and seems to enjoy tennis then the answer is not that simple.

4

Usually stars at any sport are obvious. If you have to ask the question then you don’t have a star on your hands. If she wants to do it for her own interest/pleasure that’s perfectly normal and acceptable as both an EC/personal interest. Spending excessive time practicing would be a waste of time, IMO. Other than what she herself is inspired to do for personal reasons.

5

6 hours a week at a sport she isn’t interested in is a waste of her time. She is still a kid, and she sounds completely normal. Trust me, the kid years are nearly gone. Let her enjoy every moment of whatever she has fun doing. She will get into a college and be fine.

And FWIW, the spike stuff is nonsense. It might apply to 2% of kids, and I of course don’t know your child, but if your child was one of those kids, you would probably know it by now.

My kid had no spike. She got into a highly selective college and got offered lots of merit aid from several colleges. Your child will be fine doing whatever she likes. The most important things, frankly and being totally honest, are grades and test scores. She doesn’t have to even think about that for at least two years.

6

Thank you all for your thoughtful responses. Yes, we’ve talked it over with her and she is going into playing tennis once a week (and I think she is relieved!!!). Academics are something which come more naturally to her…is it true that if she can be in the top 10% of her class (in a pretty well regarded school), that might help overcome other ‘potential’ weaknesses? I know she is still a ‘kid’ but hearing other parents talk about national tournaments, track meets, ballet troupes does make me nervous.

7

6 hours on a sport she isn’t that good at seems silly. That doesn’t mean she has to drop it all together if she enjoys it though.

Every kid is different. My older son lived and breathed computers since he was seven. It was easy to figure out how to nurture his interests. (Actually he mostly took care of it himself.) My younger son hadn’t a clue where he was headed in 8th or 9th grade. He played in the orchestra, but was only a pretty good violinist. He’d played a decent chess game in elementary school but lost interest in it. He loved being in Science Olympiad and he got medals in Ecology, but it was clear he was not a STEM kid at all. He joined the Literary Magazine because his friends were on it. He spent way too much time playing video games - often with historical and military themes. He read a lot of sci fi, particularly military sci fi.

In 10th grade he started playing with origami to keep from falling asleep in AP Bio. He learned to make earrings with it to give to his female friends for birthdays. He got good enough he sold his stuff in a couple of local galleries. That ended up being one essay.

Spring junior year he needed to do a community service project and he helped archive the neighborhood records. He found the story of the fight for open classrooms in the local elementary school and the burning question of whether the playground should be open after school fascinating. What it was like to feel like a real historian became the second essay.

None of this was planned. He wrote two interesting and different essays that showed him as an intellectual kid with wide interests. He graduated in the top 6% of his class (missed 5 by one kid!) and had a nearly perfect CR score. (Math was 100 points lower.) He got accepted by some excellent schools. (U of Chicago, Tufts, Vassar). BTW he ended up majoring in International Relations, spent a year in Jordan learning Arabic, and is planning on being a Navy officer.

The point is that you don’t have to plan this out. If your kid seems interested in something. Help them find the resources to delve deeper. (I bought a lot of cool origami.) If it’s meant to be your kid will figure it out. Colleges need well-rounded normal kids too.

8

Don’t let all that talk make you nervous. I am one of those CC members that advocates for kids doing things that interest them rather than trying to impress colleges.

If it makes you feel better, my D and her friends, admittedly a group of excellent students, have been accepted to some great colleges. Not one of these girls has anything that makes them stand out, and I really mean that. Yes, they do all have good grades and test scores, they have ECs and volunteering, but no awards, no class president, not even any sports, shock horror! They have just done what they enjoy doing. Here is a partial list of colleges my D and her friends have been accepted to: Amherst, Vassar, McGill, Northeastern, NYU, Kenyon, Uni of Rochester, Wesleyan Uni, Franklin & Marshall, SUNY Binghamton, as well as a bunch of other really good, well-regarded colleges.

I wish I had known a couple of years ago what I know now, but I assure you, forewarned is forearmed. My son will get the benefit of my own advice in 2 years time:-)

On the idea that top colleges also need well rounded regular kids, I heard an interview with the Harvard D of A,who said that well-rounded kids are still the bread and butter of the school. I love math mom’s advice above.

9

I would not spend the next 4+ years trying to create a “meaningful spike” to make a college application look good. Your D will likely develop interests on her own as she matures, or she will be a well-round student with well-rounded ECs both of which are fine for college admissions.

10

Is your daughter hoping to be on the HS tennis team? One of our kids was a meh tennis player but that was his sport. The other was a meh swimmer and that was her sport. They both went to every single proactive, and meet or match. They both cheered on their teammates and contributed to the teams in positive ways.

You don’t have to be the state or even school champion to have this as your EC. She should do the tennis if she LIKES it.

Actually…it sounds like you are looking for ECs that will pad her college application resume. Really, what you should,be doing is encouraging her to participate in ECs that she enjoys.

What is this “spike” thing you are referencing?

With regard to foreign language interest, I’m not sure how that could be parlayed into an EXTRA CURRICULAR activity. Unless she tutored young kids in the language or something like that.

The Thumper family had these household requirements for our kids…

  1. They had to participate in ONE school sport per year..not over season...per year. One chose tennis, the other swimming. Neither was a starter or a leader but they liked their chosen sport.
  2. We required both kids to do something in the arts for all four years. It didn't matter to us what it was. Our kids both were instrumentalists. That's what they did.
  3. Both were encouraged to try new things...and they did. It didn't mean that it was their favorite EC...it just meant they tried.
  4. We didn't think about how this was going to affect college applications. We thought more about finding things our kids actually enjoyed doing...and hopefully could continue as adults (both still play their instruments, swim and play tennis).

Your kiddo is a rising 8th grader. It is very possible that the EC that will pique her interest just hasn’t come her way…yet.

What does she do for fun? Any chance something there could be used as a spring board for EC involvement as she gets older? What are HER interests? Not…not yours…hers.

11

I have no clue what “spike” means in this context. What I recommend to @infomom909 is this.

Let your middle-schooler pursue her own interests and passions, as long as she’s engaged in some activities outside the normal curriculum in school. These can be hobbies, clubs, intellectual pursuits (reading, film), camping – whatever! You can never know in advance where these will lead.

My son’s hobby since age 9 or 10 was fantasy sports (baseball statistics). He was very good in math. Nothing much to put into his college application, but his strong interest in statistics on this subject got him interested in statistics for many other subjects, and it induced him to teach himself to use spreadsheets and statistical programs. A major EC activity in high school was debate, which got him into independent research, teamwork, and competitive success. Aside from this, he was an editor (opinion editor) of his high school newspaper. More research and writing, and now a flair for making good arguments in writing. (But he didn’t waste his time in “clubs,” or become a serial joiner of organizations.)

His hobby and his main EC’s were HIS interests, which combined to become a basis for his future career in ways that we could not have anticipated.

I reiterate: you can encourage your daughter to explore activities, but let her define her interests, then support and encourage here in those. Activities that energize and motivate her interests or satisfy her curiosity.

12

“Am I right there is no point in having her spend 6 hours going for tennis practice after school? And rather she should focus on what interests her more and what she might be better at?” - you are not the one deciding, the kid needs to decide if she wants to do or not. ECs are essential for personal development, but only the ones that are fun and enjoyable for a kid, they need to pick what they want. I let my D. to decide at 7, while exposing her to many unrelated activities, she was in 5 of them. Her decisions came slowly, she was hanging in there in certain things that she had no ability whatsoever, which was very clear to me. I still diligently was driving her everywhere after work while I knew that some of it will fall out, but I did not see it as a waste of time and money. Finally, she choose just 3 and she stayed with them all thru graduating from HS and one of them - music, become her minor at college while she realized that she had severe time limitations to continue with her sport,…but her team records are still there! I am glad that I did not deprive her of all these activities that were so essential to her development and all these memories for the rest of her life!!

13

So at Son#1 Prep school the Dean was discouraged bc he had many top bright students (with top SAT scores 4.0gpa 12 AP’s normal EC’s etc) not getting into tippy top or even top colleges…

He did some research and came up with a plan for every student to have to complete a “Caritas Project” (they could work in groups) something that utilized their skill set and preferably had a national/world level impact complete with PR…it had to have verifiable press coverage so if someone (college admissions I’m guessing) googled it, they could read about it or maybe it was just PR for the school idk. Students spent 3 years working on these projects… We were like “they are only kids this is too much” etc… but somehow

Bingo suddenly the numbers getting in to top schools tripled. Projects like Water filtration systems built designed and installed on Indian Reservations, starting soccer tournaments and 5k races supporting cancer research etc raising tens/hundreds of thousand of dollars, setting up learn to code centers in inner cities or code girls clubs, starting coding tournaments rating big $$… these projects were big and every person used their particular skills in some part of the project… it became a big wow factor on college applications(and in life). Many of them also earned prestigious scholarships bc this gave them “passion direction and changing the world for the better”

Son2 couldn’t afford to go to Prep school, but I took the experience of son1 and knew son 2 needed to have something like this … problem was what? During Son#2 HS years his “what” just fell into his lap out of necessity and he poured himself into it. He was able to create huge change for his community. As he was about to start the college application process I happened upon an article that made it all click and I thought “AH HA!” This is what the dean did and what my son did that made him stand out from others this is the principal…

http://calnewport.com/blog/2010/03/26/how-to-get-into-stanford-with-bs-on-your-transcript-failed-simulations-the-surprising-psychology-of-impressiveness/

he has a section in his blog on how to find an innovative activity http://calnewport.com/blog/2008/10/01/a-simple-method-for-developing-an-innovative-activity/

Anyway I started reading the Cal Newport blog and I am blown away … if I were to do it all over again (and I am definitely going to buy son#2 the college book) I would read his book “how to be a high school superstar a revolutionary plan to get into college by standing out without burning out” by Cal Newport

Son number1 would never have been focused enough to do this on his own, the project taught him so much, gave his life direction, pointed in the area that he might want to choose for a career and the friendships for life with that group he worked with are all priceless. Same thing with son #2 in his own way, and he is now planning on minoring in social impact in college bc it is so important to him

Ps he also has stuff about studying on his blog archives i.e. “how to maximize and get great grades”!
http://calnewport.com/blog/archive/

My advice is to take what she is good at (languages you said) and parlay that into something

14

Thank you all for your replies. THANK YOU, runswimyoga…I will definitely look up the links.

Yes, we checked with her if she would like to continue tennis and the answer is not at that intense level. So once a week it is…

I have been reading through the responses, and a common theme is let her explore, choose, decide. I am always torn about such advice—for some kids, it works, works very well! I have a younger one who knows what he likes—it has ranged from weather to shark tank to chess to history. He delves deep into whatever he is into, and in his case, I will indeed let him be and I know he will find something he wants to do, whatever it is!

With my DD, I feel it is different…some hand holding, some direction, gentle that is, might help her. She is surrounded by high achieving peers and I don’t want her to be in 11th grade and realize her academic achievements are not taking her where she wants it to because she did not think and plan a bit about ECs.

I wish the world for these teenagers was different–I really wish they could be rolling stones and not think about gathering the moss. But the reality is a bit different, is it not? For example, the faculty in the school my kids attend often remark “let kids be kids, let them smell the roses” but then the same school when it comes to admission, asks applicants to submit recommendation letters from academic AND extracurricular teachers!!

I come from a different culture where the stress on academics was overwhelming and I believe counterproductive. I hope I know better and I will never impose my ‘interests’ on them. But I don’t want to be completely hands off as well!

All your comments are so appreciated and they calmed me down. :slight_smile: This was my first ever posting here and I am touched by the warmth of all the answers. I know I will be back with many more questions in the coming years!:))

15

No question it’s a delicate balance and what works for one kid might not work for the other. As a parent you know more about what’s out there. So if you may be able to nudge an interest to the next level. When my son’s earrings got professional enough, I suggested he go to the galleries and see what happened. He would not have thought about it on his own. I don’t think most kids send in extra recommendations. My older son had two extra recommendations from people who could speak to what kind of computer programming he could do as no one in the high school had a clue. (He’d taken AP Comp Sci as a freshman.) But my younger son didn’t have anything but the two teacher recommendations the schools asked for.

When I look at kids today, I often think of my Girl Scout leader a million years ago who pushed our troop to do a big project cleaning up the C and O Canal in DC. We got all the troops in the district involved. And in order to get publicity she got us to ask Supreme Court Justice Douglas to pick up the first piece of garbage. Of course it made a great college essay, because I learned a lot from being involved in the project.

16

She’s still young enough for special interest summer day camps – many of which only last a couple of weeks. Perhaps if there are still spaces in some local programs, she could explore a new interest or two this summer – which might lead into a more lasting commitment to that activity in high school.

Kids are often willing to try something new if they know that it’s only for two weeks.

17

Agree with @Marian on that. My D is really shy. We felt we had to get her out of her comfort zone, because she lived in her room, and so we forced, yes forced, her to do a two week “college experience” course. (She did choose a program she felt would be the least intolerable.) She got to choose two subjects of interest and live with strangers for two weeks, but it was only three hours from home. She dreaded it. She begged me not to drop her off. She begged me not to leave. I left, and went around the corner and cried. I know, pretty pathetic.

Two weeks later, I picked up a smiling, happy girl who had a large group of lovely friends. She had a blast. She went all over the city, went out to dinner, met kids she liked, and had fun. When I picked her up she said this: “well, I learned that I am not socially inept.” Best money we ever spent. Last summer, because of that experience, she was very happy to do a similar one, but this was for college credit, and for three weeks. She chose to do computer science, something she didn’t know too much about, but she thought it would be interesting and challenging. Again, money well spent.

Both summer courses were useful. Course 1 confirmed her interest in psychology and Art. Course 2, while interesting, confirmed that she has little interest in computer science. Summer courses can be really good for some kids.

18

Let her do what she loves! I am a rising high school senior with an interest in language. I recently recieved a 5,000 dollar scholarship to study Chinese abroad this summer. When I was about your daughters age, my parents wanted me to be a good soccer player, and while I was decent, I was always a more academic type. I would allow her to do what she likes.

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@infomom909 I agree with the posters above who urge you to let your D explore her interests. I’m slightly hesitant to recommend this book because I find the whole premise of this author pretty over-the-top, but try to get your hands on a copy of Elizabeth Wissner-Gross’ book * What High Schools Don’t Tell You (and Other Parents Don’t Want You to Know) *. It has a good rundown on some interesting foreign language enrichment programs that might be of interest to your D in the coming years.

Good luck and welcome to CC!

20

While I agree about letting her explore her own interests, many kids won’t find them or commit, without parental guidance. How can they, when they don’t know the wealth of opportunities? And 8th grade is pretty young to be expected to figure all this out on her own, even if her younger sibling has.

Part of growing up is learning to balance what you love with what you ‘should’ experience. In that respect, activities aren’t much different than academics. But just playing once/week is fine. It’s the commitment over time that can matter.

And I agree adcoms don’t fuss over “spike.”