Foreign Student! I'm in for HYPMS, right?! :)

<p>@llpitch
umm...no i said he has a reach at Harvard, a high reach, but a reach nonetheless. I jst don't think he fits the MIT and Stanford criteria. But i think he might make some of the other ivy leagues like (cornell, princeton and Upenn) because he fits their criteria. He is more of the academic type with awesome academic acheivements, and less of the EC person.
I have just spoken to soooo many people at MIT and Stanford that i have a general idea of what those students are like.
Look, he is an amazing candidate, much more academically accomplished than me, but all i m saying is that i wouldnt be surprised if he gets accepted at some of the top ivy league schools whilst getting rejected by MIT and Stanford.
PS: i dont think i ever said he is 'in at harvard.' u should be particularly sure of what i said, before 'lol'ing at me :)</p>

<p>Thanks Sid, for the honest response... really appreciate it... ermm... actually, i'm one of the best actors in my school and was runner-up for national level debate (back in 10th grade) in India... and play national level cricket here in singapore... sooo... is that still less for ECs...? just wondering... should i like highlight all this more...?
llpitch: yeah... i guess MIT reject and Harvard reach does sound kinda woerd the first time ya hear it... but i guess Sid does make a loada sense...</p>

<p>Others... whaddya guys think... reply eh! please please please! :)</p>

<p>Thanks again guys... looking forward to loadsa other opinions, views, replies etc. etc. etc.! :)</p>

<p>ok..i think that saying MIT and Stanford will reject you is too cynical... i just reread my comments and your thread for the 3rd time.
Look, you, i and all the people commenting here know you are amazing, and have a killer resume, but to simply put it, i just think you are gonna make some of the ivies over MIT and Stanford. Thats not saying that you're gonna get rejected, but thats not saying that you're in either. I m just saying that your accomplishments suit ivy league schools a lot more than MIT and Stanford.
The reason i say this is because i dnt see a passion in your essay. From all the talks i ve had with other MIT and Stanford students is that they were REALLY passionate about something they did, and they really committed themselves to it. Like, if u are really into cricket, u can talk about how you have played at different levels, coached younger kids' teams, etc. If there is something you are passionate about and are able to portray that, then you should make most of these universities. For ex: u say you were a national runner up in a debating competition. dont just stop there, tell us howmany years you've carried them out for etc.
Just exhibit passion as a main theme in your essays and u ll be fine!
Dude, you have a much better chance than i thought i did. So you ll be just fine.</p>

<p>btw, since ur in singapore, u probably use MSN...add me, <a href="mailto:sidforeva@hotmail.com">sidforeva@hotmail.com</a></p>

<p>I think having more of an idea of the kind of school you want to go to, and having more of an idea of the personality you want to forward on your application is going to be very important in getting into these top places, particularly as an international from Singapore. You have 18 schools on your list, including all HYPSM. Would you really fit in at all of those places? They are all great institutions sure, but it just looks like a list of top schools rather a list of places somebody is applying. Also, to a certain extent, your extracurriculars are laid out in a similar laundry-list format. What I'm trying to say is to deal with the college process on a more personal level, and look like a student that some colleges see as the right match rather than an ambitious international trying to get into a top U.S. university.</p>

<p>Thanks Sid! Noted! Will try and focus on stuff I'm actually passionate about instead of just mentioning everything... I thought they needed well-rounded people... but I guess having diff things but focusing on a few ones is probably a good idea! thanks! :)
lol! yeah... ya guessed it... live-in-singapore=have-msn... though I prefer gtalk... tried adding ya, but dunno... probably the internet just sucks or smth... will do soon asap!</p>

<p>Innervisions: ermm... yeah... well ya guessed it... I am prettty much going by the banner-name-factor in choosing univs... cuz I guess that NUS and NTU (the singapore national univs) ain't too bad either... so yeah... I guess NUS' gonna be my safety school... n yeah... am not really clear about what sorta engineering i want to pursue which further stops me from focusing based on course than just the rank... ermm... could you please elaborate on the personal level thingy ya mentioned... is this about essays?</p>

<p>thanks a lot, guys, for your response!!
others, plz plz plz chance me... the more the opinions, the better it is... being in a system totally different from the US systems, to be frank... i'm really uncertain and unsure of my chances... any response will be greatly appreciated! thanks a LOT, guys! :)</p>

<p>Thanks Sid! Noted! Will try and focus on stuff I'm actually passionate about instead of just mentioning everything... I thought they needed well-rounded people... but I guess having diff things but focusing on a few ones is probably a good idea! thanks! :)
lol! yeah... ya guessed it... live-in-singapore=have-msn... though I prefer gtalk... tried adding ya, but dunno... probably the internet just sucks or smth... will do soon asap!</p>

<p>Innervisions: ermm... yeah... well ya guessed it... I am prettty much going by the banner-name-factor in choosing univs... cuz I guess that NUS and NTU (the singapore national univs) ain't too bad either... so yeah... I guess NUS' gonna be my safety school... n yeah... am not really clear about what sorta engineering i want to pursue which further stops me from focusing based on course than just the rank... ermm... could you please elaborate on the personal level thingy ya mentioned... is this about essays?</p>

<p>thanks a lot, guys, for your response!!
others, plz plz plz chance me... the more the opinions, the better it is... being in a system totally different from the US systems, to be frank... i'm really uncertain and unsure of my chances... any response will be greatly appreciated! thanks a LOT, guys! :)</p>

<p>NUS is far from not bad. Even if you were accepted into every Ivy League school I'd think twice about rejecting NUS in your position, because NUS' tuition is around 2600 USD per year, which if you think about it, is almost 10 SGD a day while affording reasonably good education.</p>

<p>While your awards have a focus, your ECs do not. Hence,
Massachusetts Institute of Technology -- REJECT
University of California, Berkeley -- REACH
Stanford University -- HIGH REACH
California Institute of Technology -- REJECT
Brown University -- REACH
Carnegie Mellon University -- not sure
Georgia Institute of Technology -- not sure
Princeton University -- HIGH REACH
Harvard University -- HIGH REACH
University of California, Los Angeles -- REACH
University of Illinois -- not sure
Cornell University -- REACH
Purdue University -- not sure
Yale University -- HIGH REACH
University of Chicago -- not sure
Duke University -- not sure
University of Pennsylvania -- REACH
Columbia University -- HIGH REACH</p>

<p>Seriously look into some safeties either in Singapore or in India. Don't rely on the US to accept an international.</p>

<p>uhkay! thanks! what exactly is defined as focussed ECs... like.. i've been in drama for 6 years now... n have done tonnes of public performances and school open house films etc. plus a lotta community service... soo... is that like focussed... cuz... my main ECs were students' council (as I had a major position, drama, debates)... so would focusing only on them help rather than showing myself as well rounded in sports, culture, performing arts, community service, leadership etc. etc.??
thanks for the reply! =)</p>

<p>PS: others...? whadsay...? am i in...? and yeah... with the reach/high-reach/reject/match etc. etc. could ya guys also mention what would raise my chances (cuz i have a lotta other not so major achievements which i din't mention)? what... as in... rephrasing? better SATs? focusing on smth... etc. etc. thanks!</p>

<p>Refer to the above! :)</p>

<p>When they say "well-rounded," they don't mean that you dabble in everything. They mean that you do things other than study.</p>

<p>And can you not read? People have already said that there is no guarantee, so no, you're not in. Move on. kthxbai</p>

<p>well... thanks for letting me know, my puddly-friend... but just to make sure i dun't end up calling myself and my life a puddle; i like to take opinions from those who are better acquainted with the system and improve my chances... i guess your strategy would be to get straights Es and join some lame EC, cuz of cos there's no guarantee, right? well... the thing, which i've inferred is that BECAUSE there is no well-defined-pattern of selection, gathering as much advice as you can and thinking about it, and then choosing to or not to act on it is a better idea than to well, fall into puddles... So guess what, even an impatient, bluntly rude person taught me the meaning of "well rounded" in the US admissions sense of the word... which makes me believe that CC and these forums actually do help... i am trying to "move on" to a good univ, which is why i'm asking questions, seeking suggestions et al... if you are particularly affected by such behavior, i suggest ya "move on" to other threads where people can "read" the dunno-what-kthxbai-thing you've written in the end... so yeah... looking forward to constructive advice and criticism and chances from others... and well, a more understanding ol' Puddly! :)</p>

<p>bump bump bump</p>

<p>Massachusetts Institute of Technology - Reject/ Huge reach
University of California, Berkeley - Low Reach
Stanford University - Reject/ Huge reach
California Institute of Technology - Wouldn't know
Brown University -- Pretty high reach
Carnegie Mellon University -- High match? not sure
Georgia Institute of Technology -- wouldn't know
Princeton University -- High Reach
Harvard University -- High Reach
University of California, Los Angeles -- Match
University of Illinois -- In
Cornell University -- Reach
Purdue University -- not sure, probably in
Yale University -- High Reach
University of Chicago -- really depends, write killer essays
Duke University -- Reach
University of Pennsylvania -- Pretty high reach
Columbia University -- High reach</p>

<p>Research schools like UMich, Rice, Tufts etc.</p>

<p>I have another thing to say as well thats just a personal opinion. Judging from your other posts (i think i've seen your "Indian studying in Singapore" chances threads in just about every ivy forum) I think you're applying to these schools for all the wrong reasons. Applying to top schools should be more about where you fit in and what you want in a college rather than what the "ivy" brand name means to the world. Dartmouth (which you had a chance thread in a week or so ago but seems to have disappeared off your list) and Caltech are such vastly different schools on so many levels that I would like to know your reasons for applying to both.</p>

<p>When you ask the question, "what should I do to get into these schools?" it shouldn't be about doing specific things that you are just doing to make yourself seem more impressive; It should be more about furthering your own specific interests to a deeper level so that you really stand out as a committed student. To get into a top school you need to know what you enjoy doing (outside academics) and focus to work really hard on those handful of things instead of just having a mash of a thousand different extra curricular things you have done at a purely superficial level to 'bulk up' your resume. I personally feel you're doing the latter and it's really not going to get you anywhere in the end. I'd love to hear your take on this and why you're really applying to these schools.</p>

<p>well... uphillbattle, thanks for looking at my posts in detail, really appreciate it; the thing is, i'm rather new to US admissions... all i did in the past 4 years wasn't intended to furnish me with a great curriculum vitae but things i enjoy doing... community service, drama, students' council, cricket and math are really things i'm very passionate about... i know i stretched myself like crazy trying to do well in all of them; and did achieve rather a lot in each; but now when I list them, I do agree, they do look like a i-did-everything-cuz-i-wanna-get-into-the-ivies laundry list... soo, i just want to know how to get the apparent focus required... Becuz in reality, i was focused on each one of them which is why I was voted VP of the Students' Council of an institution of 3000+ students, why I won prizes at the Singapore Youth Festival etc. etc. and why I have actually done 2000+ hours of unaccounted for community service (mostly in india). So, is there any way to show that there was not one, but a few things i was passionate about and i made sure that i worked on each other, by managing my time and life properly... soo... that's the actual meaning of "what i should do". Also, what I was looking for was exact answers; like some global competitions (relating to what i'm passionate about, of cos) which I could participate in... cuz... except for the math and NASA, all my achievements are primarily restricted to SE Asia or India...</p>

<p>About applying to the top schools, i admit, i am guilty of just going for the name value; as i mentioned before, i am absolutely now to the US admission system and US universities etc. etc. and to be frank, when I first posted and even now, am pretty much unsure of how each university is... my intention in just naming the top univs was that if my application is good enough for them, doesn't it automatically satisfy the lower universities (overall) but awesome in their own right... Also, i feel that it is a bit late for me to know each univ individually, with my A-Levels coming up soon; soo i thought applying wouldn't be exactly a bad idea, and choosing outta the best later (after getting admission) works out... and yeah... i don't exactly know, but my parents refuse to send me to US unless i get admitted to a top-notch-university which leaves ya open-mouthed (namely, HYPSM)... cuz, well NUS, the local university in Singapore ain't very bad either... sooo, that's why i decided to name all the "ranked" universities...</p>

<p>thanks a lot for the post, really really thankful for it... any suggestions now...? (and ermm... how exactly do ya make yer chances higher to reach a high-reach? :) )</p>

<p>and just a random question... how do you attach your EC list to the apps...?</p>

<p>thanks a lot for everything, guys! others... so many views, so few replies? :( c'mon... a few words won't hurt!!</p>

<p>K i'm really glad you enjoy doing the things you put on your CV and I can definitely see you've stretched yourself. Yep it's definitely hard to get to know the universities on as good a level as people who have visited/live in the US do, (i'm an international as well I would know). </p>

<p>Yep I have to admit I applied to Harvard and Yale as well and of course the name value came into play though I only applied to those two out of the really top tier universities in the US as I thought I would fit in well in those two places. You have to remember though that these universities are incredibly selective and even if you are academically perfect they may choose someone over you simply for the fact that the other person plays the oboe and they need an oboist for their orchestra. These schools are so highly regarded and desired that they have the liberty of sculpting their incoming class with such minute details so admission chances really come down to arbitrary things like that (as someone said before in this thread). Those sorts of arbitrary factors you can't really find ways around. To give another example, I remember seeing a school that this year will probably only be accepting females off the waitlist. That's probably a hard arbitrary factor to overcome no matter how hard you try to express your interest and send in recommendations. </p>

<p>US admissions tend to place emphasis on essays (especially schools like UChicago) and you really should use that to your advantage. Use your essay to show how much you really enjoy the things you put on your CV by expanding on an anecdote etc. But make sure you make it relevant and honest.</p>

<p>In terms of EC list, I would say the Brown University application is an excellent place to start. It doesn't just have a list of rectangles to fill with activity names and boxes to check for how many years and how many hours a year you have done them. Instead it has a separate question as part of the application which asks you to prepare an organised document with awards and extracurriculars laid out in whatever format you please, but generally in order of importance to you. I think this is a great starting point for you to really list all your achievements/EC's/awards in terms of their importance to you under general bullet points (eg. Sport (Tennis)) and see which areas you have really contributed extensively to.</p>

<p>Sorry for the extremely long post, but I hope it helps :)</p>

<p>that's very well written UphillBattle. btw, i m glad that you are the second person who shares the same opinions on the OP's evaluation.
being an international is so disadvantaged...i was weeping about it all of last year.</p>

<p>I'd just like to tell you some things - </p>

<ol>
<li><p>For a moment, close your eyes and imagine that all the schools on your list are totally unknown. Would you still want to go to them? If your answer is a resounding 'no' for a few places, scratch them off your list.</p></li>
<li><p>You don't really need an American safety - NUS is like a done deal for you :). But, you don't need such a massive list either! Are you sure you want to apply to both Caltech and Brown? One is heavily lopsided, the other has the open curriculum which is meant for those who like to dabble around. Do you really want to apply to both Columbia/UPenn and Dartmouth? Columpia and Penn are in bustling metropolises, Dartmouth is in a little hamlet! </p></li>
</ol>

<p>Use the Counselor-O-Matic at princetonreview.com, that will evaluate what you'd really like in a university and present you with the universities which you'd like the most (under the 'Reach Schools' section of the results).</p>

<ol>
<li>I'm an Indian citizen too (albeit a class of 2014-er), and let me tell you, you'll be facing STIFF competition, especially since you need aid. As you probably know, India has denizens of overachievers. </li>
</ol>

<p>Your main advantage is the fact that you're extremely well-involved in extracurriculars. HOWEVER, dumping all your activities on the Common App wouldn't be advisable (actually, it wouldn't be possible - you have only 7 slots). Instead of typing out all 10+ activities in the resume which you will attach, elaborate on those 7 major activities which you will list on the Common App, and perhaps add one or two more activities. Also, clump related activities together. That will add a certain amount of focus to your activities. The key fact to keep in mind is that universities prefer depth over breadth.</p>

<p>Hope this helps!</p>