Forming a "NETWORK"

College Majors Musical Theater Major
1

<p>This subject has been weighing on me lately, and I thought it would make a good thread to get people's opinions since there are so many helpful people here on CC!</p>

<p>Before I start, I just have to make clear something: </p>

<p>SOOZIEVT, if you read this, First of all I have to say that you nd your D were my inspiration for starting this thread.I sent you a PM regarding this subject but it seems your saved messages are currently full. I hope you don't mind me using you to describe my topic, but I thought that your post would be a great example. Feel free to correct anything I may have miss-posted about you, and join in the discussion as well. :)</p>

<p>On to the main topic:</p>

<p>Some have the convenience of going to an NYC school such as NYU and create a network of NYC'ers for jobs. Soozievt's post on a thread demonstrates this:</p>

<p>"PS...one more thing....my kid went to college in NYC and between who she met in college and who she met in NYC the past four years of college....she has a growing network and one thing has led to another....she even turns down jobs and gets jobs for her friends all the time. There is a life for those in the theater and music world (she is in musical theater, not just acting) in NYC and one can piece together many small jobs and earn a living, while auditioning, or in between shows. "</p>

<p>but what if someone goes to,say, the Boston Conservatory where he is not surounded by people from NYC? How then does he/she go about forming a network to supply him with jobs once he moves to NYC? Of coarse one should not decide on a college mainly because of location, but choosing a school outside of NYC seems to come with a SLIGHT(notice emphasis on slight) dissadvantage.</p>

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<p>BdwayDreamer, sorry that I did not answer the PM. I receive many PMs and cannot keep up with them all. When I can, I opt to contribute to CC’s message boards, sometimes with my parent hat on and sometimes offering thoughts from the perspective of being a college counselor. </p>

<p>But since you did bring up my name here and a past post of mine, let me say this…</p>

<p>I do NOT believe that a MT college student needs to go to college in NYC! My daughter only applied to one college, in fact, in NYC. She would have easily gone to a good BFA in MT program outside of NYC. Being in NYC is NOT imperative during the college years. Excellent training is key and it can happen at many MT college programs. </p>

<p>That said, now that she has attended college in NYC, there are some plusses about it. She did not audition during college in NYC for work, however. I don’t see that as a viable reason to go to college in NYC as some prospective students on this forum sometimes mention (though YOU did not). She had no time to attend auditions in NYC, nor would she have left college to work. </p>

<p>But where the plus part lies is that for one thing, she met a ton of people IN college…professionals in the field, faculty, students/peers, and alum. So, just among her own school (not the broader city itself), there is a big network. She went to a very large school and so met many people there. This itself can happen at any college. But her faculty were working professionals in NYC. Her fellow peers are a very large group and so they are working in the field and create work for one another too. She has even been able to get some survival type jobs working in a professional capacity for her alma mater. </p>

<p>Adding to that, just living in NYC, she met various people and each experience leads to more experiences and a bigger network. She was already a bit established in NYC by the time graduation rolled around and had a beginning basis. She also was familiar with living in NYC and various resources and so on. </p>

<p>But someone who goes to school elsewhere can do ALL of this too. First, they have their own network of faculty, students, alum, and professionals they met during college. As far as a network of others in NYC who are not affiliated with their college, they can simply start that once they move to NYC. Everyone starts at some point in NYC. My D only started a bit earlier, even though she wasn’t working that much during college, she simply lived there sooner than those who moved there after graduation. It was merely a slight advantage, but not one that is crucial to success by any means. Again, I can now see some advantages to her having gone to college in NYC and the smooth transition after graduation. But it was not a deciding factor in picking a college. I will admit that my D has always loved NYC and surely the fact that NYU was located in NYC was in the “Pro” column of pros/cons for schools on her list. But location was not the main factor in picking her school. Since she was lucky to have many college options, she could be pickier about where to attend and the NYC location was one plus about NYU but she wanted NYU for way more reasons than that. </p>

<p>The bottom line is that you start networking in college and continue to build that once you get out of college and move some place like NYC. The location of your college in terms of networking is not that crucial of a factor in college selection. If you have many college options, you can certainly weigh that as a factor in your decision making. But MT graduates of colleges outside of NYC fare just fine once they get to NYC too. And a lot of my D’s network has grown and grown in the two years SINCE graduation. One job or experience leads to knowing more people in the field.</p>

<p>PS, I forgot to mention another plus about her college years in NYC…the fact that she got to see so much theater at so many levels for someone who planned a life in theater, was a big plus. Remember, it is a plus but not an essential.</p>

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<p>One more thing…location was just one small factor in my D’s selection of MT programs. Picking the best fit program was primary and location was secondary and only came into play more once she had acceptances in hand and could afford to be pickier about such factors. There are only a few MT programs in NYC or very close to NYC. Honestly, NYU/Tisch was the only one of them that interested her and so was the only NYC area college she applied to. This is an example of how she picked best fit programs over location. Nothing against Pace, Marymount, Wagner or Montclair State but these programs were not what my particular kid was looking for. They are good programs but were not good fits for her.</p>

<p>Once acceptances were in hand, however, I can say she’d rather have been in NYC than in Ithaca or State College, PA (some of her options). But she still applied to programs in locations that were not her ideal locations because the programs were attractive in some ways.</p>

4

<p>I agree location did not play a real factor in my D’s decision as well. Location only came in to play after she had her choices as well. She would have preferred warmer weather but ended up in the snowiest locale. Oh well!!! Great program in the end is all that matters.</p>

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<p>Physical proximity to NYC during your colleges years does not warrant much attention in my opinion. Living in NYC, for some, is actually a distraction and some NYC schools actually have rules not allowing their students to audition for professional shows. Having said that - some students thrive in NYC and others do not…it is a pretty personal thing.
About your actual question concerning developing networks. This is an essential part of show business. This networking is actually a reason why a talented student might want to attend a highly regarded program - these programs have active working faculty, a strong network of working alumni (not just performers, but directors, choreographers, music directors, stage managers, agents, and so on), a program that has a steady stream of show biz professionals visiting their school on a consistent basis. Such schools exist across the USA. These working networks are extremely beneficial in landing your first couple of jobs (after that it is your attitude and work ethic that will continue your getting work or not). Beyond what your school offers there are ways to build your own network. During the summer if you take a summer job in the chorus of a theater that has SDC directors/choreographers and some AES working professionals - that might move your career further than taking a star role at a theater that hires mostly other college folks and has a director who only works locally - your choice. You might spend summers interning for major casting agencies, taking dance classes with working teachers in NYC, acting classes with working directors. Many ways to “market” yourself prior to entering the professional work force.
Of course, the best way to get going in a career is to concentrate on your studies while in a training program so as to show the best you possible when you begin auditioning. I say again, location should not weigh too heavily in you college search - if the consideration is how close to Manhattan you might be - there are so many more parameters you should consider when choosing a program.
Lulu63 - I take that to mean you are in Syracuse or Ithica or maybe No. Colo?</p>

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<p>Agree with a point above in that many of my D’s peers/alums are not just actors but working in other facets of the industry and so her classmates are doing neat works and that alone is a kind of network. </p>

<p>One thing I will mention with regards to my own kid, is that she also CREATES work for herself and doesn’t wait for work to come to her. She is not waiting to be cast. She sets goals of things she wants to accomplish and makes work for herself. She initiates many of her own endeavors. Not everything she does for work in this field is by being hired by someone else.</p>

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<p>Soozievt, I totally understand that you do not believe that a MT college student does not need to go to a college in NYC. I am just thinking about the negatives of not being there.</p>

<p>I am not so concerned about creating a network for auditions/performance jobs, I am more concerned about so called “survival jobs”. I would Like my supporting jobs to be in the theatre realm. I am a fluent pianist, and I believe accompanist jobs and musical director jobs are a good fit. I would also like cabaret, singing jobs,dance instructor,assistant director,…anything to do with the theatre. I am hoping to make a network in college that would supply my supporting/in between/side jobs. My impression is that most NYU students plan to live in NYU after graduating so it would be easier to make conections, including NYU theatre dept. teachers, for work almost IMMEDIATELY after graduation. What I am wondering is, would one still be able to make connections with the right people,including NYU or OTHER school’s teachers, in order to start working in the theatre shortly after moving to NYC? I would prefer not to start out as a waitress.</p>

<p>I know that a determined person could EVENTUALLY make a network for “survival” jobs, but starting out in new york city would be alot harder if you haven’t been living there and you will most likely end up as a waitress.</p>

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<p>I don’t think it is as black and white as you say. But yes, there are some advantages to already building a network in NYC during your college years. I still don’t think that is a make or break thing. But if given several acceptances, it is something to weigh if it matters a lot to you. </p>

<p>My daughter also gets work as an accompanist and musical director. All of her survival jobs are in music and theater and she has never waitressed or worked outside of the performing arts. The fact that NYU is in the city also means her being able to work for their college and pre-college programs as an accompanist and musical director (they already know her and contact her and she has not had to apply for jobs) and she also turns some jobs down for them and has a bunch of friends she recommends to them instead of herself when she can’t take jobs for them. </p>

<p>Like you, my daughter is also interested in singing jobs that are not in theater and so she has built this up in NYC over time, starting while in school but even more so once she graduated and so she is booking more significant venues now as a singer/songwriter. It is certainly possible to do this if you go to another school and eventually move to NYC. She simply started sooner. </p>

<p>Graduates of non-NYC programs make their way in NYC just fine. If you attend college in NYC, your network in NYC may start sooner, and you have your school, faculty, and peers/alum right there after you graduate too. Again, it can be a plus but it is not essential to your goals. I’ll admit that it has been beneficial for my kid, but it was not the most significant factor in her college selection. Being in NYC was very attractive to her as she loves NYC and NYU was a school she had talked about going to since she was 12 years old. It ended up being a perfect fit for her but it is not the end all and be all. Look for best fit first.</p>

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<p>The above post makes alot of sense.The "fitz’ should come first.</p>

<p>So I still wouldn’t have to waitress even though I’d be starting out with no network? I would just have to look for work and apply for the jobs (ie. singing, accompanist, musical director,etc.) and float my name around instead of starting out already having a job due to my connections(without applying)? OR would I have to have a job such as waitressing WHILE I make these connections? Mabe just a few months?</p>

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<p>BwayDreamer there is no way to answer that question. Maybe you will end up waitressing or temping in addition to performing, musical directing, and accompanying, maybe you will not. Maybe some months you will and others you will not. Whether or not you go to college in NYC you may end up waitressing/ temping to make ends meet… or not. I have friends who have Broadway performance credits (and teach, accompany, etc…) who live in NYC and end up waiting tables, checking coats, temping, catering, etc… sometimes to make ends meet.</p>

<p>As others have said, networking happens in college, during professional summer jobs, through internships in and out of NYC… some networking can also happen at non-theatre related “survival jobs.” Going to college in NYC may make the transition from college to “real world” a little more seamless (assuming you want to live in NYC), because you would already have a comfort level with the city. I have former students who graduated from colleges not in NYC who have also made the transition pretty seamlessly, and who have been able to secure gigs accompanying, MD etc… pretty quickly because of their academic and professional networks.</p>

<p>If I remember correctly you are in HS and are currently coming up with your list of colleges? It sounds like you may want to include some schools in NYC on your list so, if admitted, you can weigh the importance of being in NYC to you when making a final decision. :)</p>

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<p>Thank you KatMT for helping :slight_smile: You reminded me that nothing in this buisness is stable and that even “survival jobs” can be unstable.Mabe I will need a temp job or something of that sort along with my other theatre related side jobs. My goal, however, is to be completely employed in the theatre. Sooziemt’s D is a prime example. Your fallback jobs don’t have to be NON-theatre related.I would like to have my work in the theatre realm immediately opon moving to the city. As Sooziemt’s D demonstrated, it is definitely possible if you come from a college in NYC. All of her jobs have been in the theatre. What I am wondering though, is if this is possible coming from outside the city to start working in theatre related jobs immediately upon moving. I guess only if you can make connections with New Yorkers at your out-of-city college. Does anyone understand what I mean?</p>

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<p>I agree with everything Kat wrote above!</p>

<p>If you really want to be in NYC for college, include some NYC schools on your list. But do not worry about the rest right now. Graduates of other colleges come to NYC upon graduation in pretty much the same boat as the NYC graduates. It is not THAT different. The NYC graduates maybe have a jump start, that’s all. And their school and the people associated with it are right there. </p>

<p>But even BFA graduates of NYC schools take survival jobs such as waitressing!! No matter where you go to college, you will need to have some sort of survival jobs while pursuing other professional work in the performing arts. It happens to be that my D has some skills that land her professional survival jobs in theater and music and so she has never waitressed and likely never will. So, regardless of where you go to school, if you attain a variety of skills (seems like you intend to do so and already are on your way), you can obtain some decent survival jobs that may even be professional ones in their own right (such as accompanying and musical directing). So, this situation of the kinds of survival jobs you may or may not get is relatively the same no matter where you go to school. My D’s roommate is a yoga teacher as her survival job (she is in musical theater) and she went to school in NYC. She gave up waitressing when she became certified as a yoga teacher. But many grads of colleges in the NYC area also waitress a as a survival job. But YOU don’t have to waitress if you don’t wish to. My D doesn’t. And I don’t attribute that fact to the fact she went to college in NYC. It is because she has worked to achieve survival jobs in performing arts out of choice. She would have done the same no matter where she had gone to college. Her newest “survival” job is she was commissioned by a major theater to write/compose a new musical. She wasn’t planning to write any more musicals but she ain’t turning down this opportunity and it is flexible on her own time and the money for it equals a year’s salary for her. This could have happened to her even if she had gone to college some place else.</p>

<p>I think right now you should not worry too much about this stuff. If being in NYC is important to you, include some NYC colleges on your list but I would make school location a secondary, not primary consideration, at this juncture and then see where you get in and perhaps you do get into a school that is a good fit that is also located in a location you favor. Meanwhile, starting now and during four years of college, acquire skills that may prepare you to attain professional type survival jobs in the arts if you prefer that to waitressing. Network through your school and summer jobs and so on. Things will develop. It takes time no matter WHERE you go to college.</p>

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<p>BwayDreamer, I just cross posted with you.</p>

<p>Don’t worry TOO much about if and how you might find accompanist or other types of jobs immediately upon landing in NYC. You might. Even if you go to college in NYC, you might and you might not. So what if you do a very temp job as a waitress or work in retail or babysitting for a few months until some other jobs get lined up? You might even be cast right away (my D was cast on a tour the week after graduation, for example). Going to college in NYC won’t guarantee you anything. You can make this all happen for yourself once you graduate and land in NYC. Going to college in NYC may or may not get you the survival jobs you want right away. Even if you do, many of these jobs are very short term! My D is always lining up the NEXT thing. For example, she musically directed a show at Tisch this past semester. The job ended. Granted, more offers for the fall have come about but she has had MANY jobs in the two years since she has graduated! They typically are not long lasting jobs…be it as musical director or accompanist…there is a start and end to each job. In this field, basically, you are ALWAYS job hunting. It is not like other typical college graduates who land a job and hope to stay in it for a long while, like years!!!</p>

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<p>Thank you Soozievt, I really appreciate it. :slight_smile:
I guess its not a big difference if I end up having to work a temp job for a few months.
And if I do land a job right away, thats great, but putting too much emphasis on it is silly :stuck_out_tongue: So mabe I don’t have the privilage of having a strong network to support me after I graduate. I know that I possess the determination to do so on my own time.</p>

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<p>BwayDreamer, it’s good that you’re thinking of these things but don’t get too caught up in worrying about securing theatre work immediately upon graduation. Some students do but most do not, regardless of where they go to college. My D has been continuously employed in theatre and related work since graduation but, although she went to college in NYC, she hasn’t worked there post grad! She went to Chicago for a year then moved to London and has been in the UK ever since. She, like Susan’s D, is one of the fortunate ones. Susan’s D is incredibly talented and has been incredibly successful at such a young age. She is certainly one to admire and to attempt to emulate but it’s a good idea to realize that her experience is the exception and not the rule for new grads. Although many of her, and also my D’s, fellow Tisch grads have had much success, there are also some who have not. This will be the case for all schools.</p>

<p>As for networks, although my D, like Susan’s, did not choose Tisch for its networking opportunities, she certainly took advantage of the amazing connections she made during her four years there. I don’t think that a single week went by without her meeting someone who came to one of her studio classes as a guest. This happens with such ease in the city because of the thousands of professionals available, and the fact that the faculty have these connections and are able to call on them. She met actors, directors, choreographers, stage managers, dancers, producers, agents, pit musicians, costumers, playwrights, filmmakers, I can’t even remember all of them. At most Tisch productions, you’ll find that industry professionals will come to see the shows. Connections of this sort, as well as previous connections she had, were responsible for her forming her own theatre company while at Tisch and working with a combination of students and professionals. This experience led to yet further connections with the people involved with casting and the tech side of the shows. That’s what tends to happen with networking, one thing leads to another, and then another. </p>

<p>I agree that you don’t have to be in NYC in order to network. The opportunities may be different, and likely fewer, in other cities and towns but that just means that you will work harder! :slight_smile: What you do in your college summers may then present you with a good opportunity to ensure that you can focus on your networking. There are many ways these days, particularly with the ease of social media, to make connections if the desire and the effort is there.</p>

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<p>The location of the school is not the most important thing because you can work hard and things can happen no matter where you go to college.</p>

<p>I will admit, however, that once my daughter was in college, I really saw so much networking and opportunities, such as alwaysamom describes with her daughter. NYU is a very big school. The faculty are working professionals in NYC. Other professionals in NYC are constantly coming into the school as well. The peer group is large and talented and not everyone is trying to become an actor or “only” an actor. Many of the fellow students go on to start theater companies, direct, choreograph, musically direct, write, compose, etc. and so they involve one another in their projects post graduation. Many create new works of theater and cast their fellow classmates/alum. My D has cast her friends and has had friends who have cast her in their projects. So, some networking is simply with one’s classmates who are creative go getters and so on. Then, faculty are involved in projects. My D was hired while still a student to musically direct works for one of the professional faculty outside of school. As alwaysamom writes, and this is not specific to Tisch or NYC schools, one thing leads to another and that leads to another. Someone sees you in this and calls you up for that. You can’t take a job but recommend your friend for the job (my D has gotten many friends jobs!). Networking builds and builds. It takes time. It is not all right once you graduate. My own kid’s network has grown a lot SINCE graduation. Her network has gone well beyond those affiliated with Tisch. As I said, someone will see her work and invite her to be involved in something else. This can happen no matter where you go to school! It is a gradual process and happens over time. It is still happening for my D and will for most people in their career. It just doesn’t happen all at once for most people. </p>

<p>But as I also mentioned in a post, some students take a survival job such as waitressing and then attend auditions and hope and wait to be cast in something. My D has not chosen that path and tells me that will never be her. She is NOT waiting to be cast in something. She barely has time to audition much as she is involved in so many projects. She initiates a lot of work that she is involved in. She is a creator and initiator. She isn’t waiting for something to come to her. She goes after her own goals to make music and make theater. She also is involved in several facets of music and theater and not just performing in musicals, though she is involved in that and loves that too. Some kids are only trying to be cast in musicals and then have big lulls in between being cast in a show, whereas my kid is involved in theater and music 24/7 but it is not simply due to luck or even being cast (though that has been a part of her life too), but she creates work and opportunities for herself in theater and music. She wrote a musical, in part, so she could be in it (she played a lead in it, and it was recently produced in NYC). She is a singer/songwriter, and her original CD is being released this summer and she has gone after booking her own gigs in venues in NYC and has been able to book increasingly better and better venues. She performs weekly in NYC with a group made up of fellow Tisch alum actors too. So, what I am saying is she diversifies and does not have all her eggs in the “audition for musicals” basket and is involved in many areas of music and theater and enjoys all these areas in fact. But the point is, in many of the cases of her work, but not all, she has created the work and initiated or gone after it, rather than waiting for opportunities to land on her lap. It is a different approach than waiting to be cast and doing something else unrelated in the meantime as many do. What I am saying is that my D is not waiting around for some big break to be cast in some big theater, and is very passionate about theater and music and so stays involved in the field and creates her own work a lot too, and supports herself financially all through theater and music endeavors, and is involved in MANY things at one time. So, no matter where you go to college, work hard and be a go getter and your drive will take you places and one thing will lead to more things but it doesn’t all happen right away. I will admit, however, that for my daughter, NYU/Tisch was a great match and was the seed for many opportunities during her four years and has led to more and more since graduation. Many, but not nearly all, of the things she has done since graduation, have some connection back to NYU or those who have attended. Other things she has been involved in have less direct relation back to NYU, but then again, if you trace back how one thing led to another, even some of those jobs are due to something that happened before back in college. But I also think those who have attended other schools could likely say the very same thing!</p>

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<p>My daughter is a recent graduate of The Boston Conservatory and a member of SAG/AFTRA/AEA. She was successful prior to going away to college and has been back on the auditioning circuit for a little over a month. </p>

<p>During this transition, she waitresses two days a week, gives voice lesson basics to 3 students, teaches a dance class 3 nights a week, baby sits a doctor’s two children occasionally, and auditions regularly in NYC (we live about 35 miles outside NYC).</p>

<p>In the past two weeks she recorded two AFTRA Pepsi radio commercials (with a southern accent – kudos to her dialect coaches). As her voice, MT and dance lesson hours increase; she will start to eliminate the waitressing days.</p>

<p>There is no shame in waitressing, She tells me it actually helps her with her acting by mimicking some of the “characters” she encounters. Even though her future earning potential “in the business” is bright, she will keep on waitressing until it no longer makes financial sense.</p>

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<p>Bway Dreamer – it will be a long time before you have to worry about “survival” jobs – right now you need to focus on putting together a college list and preparing for your auditions. However, I am a little concerned that you mention working at your survival job for “just a few months” – in the life of a performer, that is a pretty unrealistic goal. I know that you have been focusing on the example of SoozieVt’s daughter – but believe me, she is the exception and not the rule – and not because she went to college in NYC. She has an exceptionally diverse set of skills. You may have them too – and you should certainly focus on developing your talents. But be aware that most young performers go through frequent periods of not being employed in their chosen field, no matter how talented they are. You could be successfully employed in a Broadway show right after graduation, but once that show closes, you are back on the audition circuit and will need to pay your bills. That is a reality of the theater business, and something that you should come to terms with if you intend to pursue this profession.</p>

<p>Regarding the location of your college, it is indeed possible to develop a good network outside of NYC. You should certainly include some NYC schools on your list, but don’t eliminate other schools that interest you just because they are not located in the city.</p>

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<p>onstage is right. While my own daughter is actively pursuing three areas of her performing arts career, she has survival jobs on the side all the while! They never stop!! They are often short term and so she is always looking for new survival jobs but she always has survival jobs in place to pay her living expenses. Her survival jobs happen to be in performing arts too, but many of these she does simply to pay the bills. So, MOST graduates will need survival jobs on an ongoing basis for years because paid professional performing gigs come and go and there usually are lulls in the action in terms of the career stuff.</p>

<p>Right now, your focus should be on getting into college. Then, all the while, develop a range of skill sets so when you get out, you can do many things and not just perform in musicals.</p>

20

<p>Establishing a strong network is critical in the never-ending job search that is a life in professional theatre. In my experience, you’ll want your network to be global, rather than local or even regional, no matter where you call home.</p>

<p>That said, our D who is just finishing high school has already established an extensive NYC network although she lives almost as far from there as possible in the US, and has never spent more than a week there. She mentioned a couple months ago that she thought that if she met anyone currently on Broadway she would personally know at least one person they know. I doubted her, but her theory was recently put to the test when she met the cast of a show in development here with actors on leave from Broadway. When the cast friended her on FB, I noticed she had no fewer than 10 mutual friends with every cast member.</p>

<p>The professional theatre network is small, so always work hard and be a pleasure to work with, that you may always find work!</p>