Forming the apply list, Wesleyan is up there...need your help.

Colleges and Universities A-Z Wesleyan University
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<p>Looking for some calibration here. On paper, Wesleyan looks terrific based on a lot of his preferences, but we have no idea how competitive he is. His guidance counselor says he has a 50:50 shot at William and Mary (and that is in state). So, this is sort of a chance him (my son) thread, but also a general sense of what is an unreasonable reach and what is safe as he forms a list. Sorry for the broad question but am new to the forum...here we go...</p>

<p>He does not work very hard in school, so his GPA is his weakness...He is incredibly normal and does not like the chase of admissions, but has done well enough to be competitive at some good places, perhaps wesleyan</p>

<p>GPA UW 3.75 W GPA higher of course
SATI M 740 CR 800 WR 670 (not sure if he wants to retake)
SATII CHEM 740 US 740
AP EXAMS - CHEM 4, HIST 5
He is taking AP Physics and Biology in his senior year, and has a couple dual enrollments as well. 4 years of foreign language. 8 years of fine arts.</p>

<p>ECs -
SPORTS: JV soccer (2yrs), Varsity Soccer (2yrs), Varsity Track (2yrs), Varsity X-country (2yrs). </p>

<p>MUSIC:
Concert Band (clarinet - 4 years) - playing for 7 years.
Jazz Ensemble (Piano - 4 years) - playing for 10 years
Some musical accomplishments at jazz festivals (e.g. best soloist), he is a promising (but not a prodigy) in terms of Jazz and Rock improvisational piano. He has a rock band and plays in a high end student jazz ensemble in the summers. He gigs around from time to time but they don't earn much.</p>

<p>OTHER:
Works part time, soccer ref, life guard.
Started the school debate club.
Some but not extensive community outreach. Volunteered for political campaigns.</p>

<p>Interested in Science or Govt/Politics, is very broad, not a music major but wants to jam out with his friends or do some gigs on the side.</p>

<p>THE LIST:
Wesleyan, Oberlin, UVA (in state), William and Mary (in state), Carleton - Not sure which might be reaches.</p>

<p>Cornell, Duke - Seem like reaches, as the other Ivies do.</p>

<p>Safe - well that is part of it isn't it.</p>

<p>I would appreciate your thoughts about where Wesleyan fits in with his list and where he fits in with Wesleyan. Any info that should encourage or discourage us from Wesleyan is appreciated.</p>

<p>Let me know if I broke any forum etiquette with this ramble...</p>

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<p>omg, no apologies necessary, are u kidding?</p>

<p>I would think that W&M would be pretty safe for an in-stater with those stats, no? If not then, you would really have to put on your thinking cap: URichmond? VTech?</p>

<p>All that aside for the moment, S sounds like he would make a great fit (I’m assuming he’s not recruitable or you would have said so already?) Competitively, I’d say, it would certainly be worth his while to put in an app. Heck, if fin/aid is not an issue, I would even rec applying ED.</p>

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<p>Hi, thanks so much for the prompt reply. What do you mean not recruitable?</p>

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<p>Other quick replies. Richmond seems like a flower of the south to him. He says he’d prefer a gap year to tech.</p>

<p>I did not mention that his guidance counselor said W&M is 50:50 before his SATs…she also knows nothing about him. </p>

<p>We’d love fin aid, but can afford to send him out of state if he has a passion</p>

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<p>Hmmm. That’s interesting.
Okay, if his GC is calling W&M a 50:50 shot and S is in the market for something like Wesleyan but not as difficult to get in – now, don’t faint – I’m thinking Occidental. Very similar urban/suburban feel. More Californi-ish in terms of architecture. But, still a very diverse, intelligent, student body. The best part is, they accepted over 40% of their applicants this year.</p>

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<p>Occidental is an interesting idea. Mom does not want to ship him out but I would love it if he decided to bolt out west.</p>

<p>The guidance counselor thing is a bit odd. Numerically he seems pretty solid (though not safe) for W&M, and even UVA. If you mean recruitable for athletics, his track coach says there would be some interest from W&M, I assume as a walk on.</p>

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<p>^^yes, i meant athletically. If Wes is his first choice, and you don’t mind taking a Hail-Mary on the fin-aid, it might increase his chances to apply ED.</p>

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<p>Southern:
How about Davidson (although very challenging for someone who doesn’t like to work hard, grades on a curve)- maybe could run track
Wake Forest
Northern:
Penn State Honors-- lots going on on campus
Villanova-- nice size, near a city which addresses the music scene & might get merit $
Lehigh- great math & science- kids have lots of fun there</p>

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<p>Do you have a sense of what his GPA is like in context? Is he in the top 10% of his class?</p>

<p>He sounds like a great match for Wesleyan to me - it’s a good place to have diverse interests :)</p>

<p>But I would say Wesleyan and Cornell are actually pretty similar in terms of admissions and competitiveness - Cornell is one of the easier Ivies to get into. </p>

<p>The schools on your list are pretty different in terms of atmosphere. Cornell is very different from Wesleyan is very different from Duke. So I’d recommend spending time thinking about what he really is looking for in a college.</p>

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<p>livesinNJ, madboy, Thanks for your thoughts. I think they are on target, or at least jive with my feelings. I have some general thoughts and specific points in response to yours. </p>

<p>In general, he is not sure about small college/research school quite yet, so is casting the net widely. Cornell is attractive for many reasons, e.g. we have a summer home near there. LACs are attractive because he is more intellectually motivated and hates to be annoying in a way that helps you get a head at a major research school (at one of which I am a professor). So that is a dichotomy he will have to sort out. He is gestating on what he is really looking for and I am trying to keep out of his way on that central point.</p>

<p>Here is his attraction to WU…it is larger than the usual LAC, with some graduate presence, but is still small, and really smart kids go there as their first choice. I am friends with the Prez of a quality LAC which seems to cater to the NYC college entrance machines that did not get into the Ivies, and that is not a great scene. Let me know if WU is like that. He would be more comfortable with a bit of quirkiness I think - conformity is not his thing, though he is not a weirdo either. </p>

<p>More specific points to both of your messages:

  • He is NOT in the top 10%, though he would be in the top 10% at my U (!). Public HS can draw the lines that one must stay within, and draw them pretty close together for some kids.
  • Duke, there is a legacy connection with me, so it is on the long list. He is not even sure it is a good fit.
  • Davidson, correct me on this, but I see that as the sterotypical pre-med entrance machine of the new south. He should give it an honest look perhaps.
  • Wake is of interest.
  • Nova and Lehigh are very interesting ideas.</p>

<p>Thanks for your thoughts!</p>

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<p>As a Virginia parent of four high school graduates who have gone through the college admissions process (and applied to many of the same schools that you are considering) I think I have a pretty good read of what the schools are looking for. William and Mary is clearly your best in state shot – they favor boys over girls and (probably as a consequence) tend to give more weight to the SAT than does U-Va. U-Va likes good SATs too, but they definitely care more about grades. In fact, in your son’s case, crazy as it sounds, his SATs might cause U-Va to do a double take. They’re so strong that they run the risk of U-Va viewing him as a slacker. His course load ain’t easy, you’re right about that, but it’s also dime a dozen at U-Va, where the typical in state applicant (particularly from Northern Virginia) will not only have taken six, eight, even 10 AP classes but also done well enough in them to place comfortably in the top ten percent of the class. </p>

<p>In short, I’d estimate your son’s chances at William and Mary at greater than 50 percent (and even higher if he applies ED), but I’d say his chances at U-Va are less than that and will turn almost entirely on his first semester senior year grades. It’s critically important that he do extremely well.</p>

<p>As for the other schools on your list, based on the experience of my kids and their friends I’d label Duke and Cornell as out of your son’s league without question and every other school on your list except Oberlin as pretty high reaches. Neither Duke nor Cornell will accept any non-minority, non-athlete applicant from any Virginia public high school (other than a magnet school like TJ) who does not back up his high SATs with either a ranking in the top handful in the class, extraordinary ECs, or both. It just doesn’t happen. Being a legacy could make a difference but Im betting it won’t. </p>

<p>My daughter with the strongest record among her sisters applied to William and Mary, Wesleyan, and Carleton among other places. She did not apply to U-Va. She had higher grades than your son and an apparently stronger courseload (9 or 10 APs in one of the best public high schools in the state), equally strong test scores, and impressive extracurriculars. William and Mary and Carleton accepted her, but Wesleyan did not. In fact, they didn’t even waitlist her. Her best guy friend at the same high school had grades, extracurriculars, and test scores more along the lines of your son. He got into both U-Va and William and Mary and was waitlisted at both Carleton and Wesleyan. He didn’t make it off of either waitlist. Smaller schools care more about extracurriculars than bigger schools, and here your son’s extras could hurt him more than at U-Va or William and Mary.</p>

<p>I’d also echo what a previous poster has suggested – your son is looking at dramatically different types of schools. I cannot see the same kid at Duke or U-Va that I’d see at Wesleyan or Oberlin (which explains why, in my daughter’s case, she didn’t even apply to U-Va).</p>

<p>Hope this helps.</p>

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<p>super helpful!</p>

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<p>oh, and he is a bit of a slacker, not really, but he is not one of these people whose life has been focused on college entrance since the 8th grade. This is not meant to sound defensive or anything, it is just that I think that UVA might have a point. He is an extremely bright kid that could have worked harder in HS. Parenthetically, it is my experience from the professor’s side, that the students that have to stay up all night in HS are the ones that suffer in College, in part because of the load, but partly because the pressure to be what you are not simply continues on for another four years, or the reality check comes.</p>

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<p>I don’t disagree with you, but there is of course a middle ground. Most kids who score, say, at or higher than the mid 1200s on the SAT are perfectly capable of doing extremely well in most public high schools without having to stay up all night working. But let me add one more thing that might be good for your son. I have it on pretty good authority that when Blackburn was Dean of Admissions at U-Va the school’s informal practice was essentially not to care at all about SATs and focus only on the grades and course loads once the admissions committee saw a 600 or more in each subject area. U-Va has a new dean of admissions, however, and I have it on the same pretty good authority that when he was assistant dean he cared more about SATs than did Blackburn. The data on this year’s entering class (where the SAT average of the bottom quarter has gone up by 40 points) supports this view. </p>

<p>William and Mary justifies its heavier emphasis on the SAT and the corresponding effect of favoring boys as not being unfair to girls but merely as recognizing that boys and girls mature at different stages and have different learning styles in high schools. Not sure if this is fair or not, but there’s an argument for it.</p>

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<p>I think you are right on, and wonder if our authorities overlap at all!</p>

<p>I was interested in your thoughts about Wesleyan/Carleton, because both those seem to tolerate lower GPAs for SATs, which fits my son better. Also, the 50:50 sex ratio will favor boys in today’s academic climate. That is not to say he will get in, but these are the forces I see operating on his strengths and weaknesses.</p>

<p>Regarding big public schools, and I do know something about this, if all you are doing is going to class, I think a smaller high-quality place is better. If you are the kind of person that goes after opportunities when they are there, then a major research institution has endless opportunities that no small college can match (at least in the sciences).</p>

<p>I would hazard to guess UVA is third on his preference list, below W&M and Wesleyan. I think he is VERY intrigued by Oberlin…and really he is just getting serious about this list in the past little while and as we visit places.</p>

<p>Again, thanks for your thoughts.</p>

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<p>William and Mary will accept your son, I’m pretty sure about that. I’d also suggest you add Grinnell to your list. It’s slightly less competitive for admissions than Wesleyan or Carleton, has a similar academic and social atmosphere, and an equally strong academic reputation.</p>

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<p>I wouldn’t be quite so pessimistic as parent2009 about chances. Not being in the top 10% isn’t a dealbreaker, when coupled with strong SATs/extracurriculars/essays/recs/etc, and especially if the high school is fairly competitive. I was admitted to Wesleyan from an NJ public school where my GPA did not put me in the top 10% of the class - but I did have strong SAT scores and extracurriculars.</p>

<p>Smaller schools are definitely more likely to focus on things other than the numbers. That means that with a great essay that shows excellent writing skills and really shows off his unique voice and life story, and good recommendations from teachers who know him well, he’s got as good a chance as anyone.</p>

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<p>I like Grinnell, but he has not risen to the bait yet, even though he gives Iowa some credit for giving Obama a shot and for being ahead of CA (by a long shot) on the gay marriage front. :)</p>

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<p>Nigiri, my son, now a rising junior at Wes, got in with similar stats to your son. He is an interesting, totally non-competitive kid and talented musician, and we suspect his essays and music supplement played a considerable part in his admission. Definitely send in a music supplement; it can’t possibly hurt and might help (more so at Wes than at Oberlin, where most kids have some interest in music).</p>

<p>Admissions at these small schools is terribly unpredictable, so my advice is to apply to lots of them. My son was waitlisted at schools we thought he’d get into and accepted at Wes which was a bit of a reach. We can’t help but think they saw him as a good fit, and so far they’re absolutely right. He is doing beautifully there and is very happy.</p>

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<p>Skie, Tell me about your son’s music. They sound similar! My son will not major, but is in all sorts of bands and such, improvisational, makes money at it, though not much.</p>