Frat 101

Parents Forum
21

<p>Marian, you are very correct. Which is why when people start talking about drunken debauchery taking place in fraternity houses I know that either 1) they do not have kids in a fraternity, 2) they have never been in a fraternity, or 3) if they were in a fraternity, it was back in the 70's when drinking was legal at 18. Because no fraternity would be stupid enough to get caught serving up alcohol openly out of their on-campus house. If they are that stupid, they've probably been caught or will be very soon.</p>

<p>The parties that go on involving illegal substances take place in private houses and apartments, just like with the "civilian" crowd (they don't have their parties in their on-campus dorms, either).</p>

22

<p>My husband's fraternity brothers referred to the place they lived as well as their organization as 'the house' and did not use the term frat, nor did they refer to nonGreeks as outsiders or civilians. They were a very good group of nice guys who never threw a closed party that I can recall. BUT, alcohol was a big deal (70's-80s') and the house had a bar with working taps where beer and hard liquor were served. Drinking age was 21 in that state at that time (if I recall correctly) and IDs were not checked. </p>

<p>Today, I think the attitude regarding alcohol, 'initiation', respect and how brothers, pledges and nonGreeks are treated...just depends on the specific organization and school. If you like wild parties, you'll find Greek organizations that party wildly; if you don't and prefer focus on other activities, those Greek organizations are there as well.</p>

<p>(Btw...doubleplay, I have a bridge for ya if you don't think alcohol is part of the social scenes in on-campus dorms. In fact, at many schools, alcohol is permitted in the possession of those 21 and older IN their dorm rooms. If that ain't a recipe for an alcohol-fueled dorm party, I don't know what is...lol!)</p>

23

<p>My post 70/80's college drinking experience has been at the place my kids go, where there are very few 21 year olds living in dorms (it's a huge public university and mostly freshman live in the dorms). I'm sure it's different in schools where kids live in the dorms for all four years. </p>

<p>Yeegads, I remember huge intradorm parties at my college where the beer trucks would just pull right up to the dorms on campus and open up the taps! What a different world our kids live in.</p>

24

<p>I'll do ya one better dp. At my husband's college (everyone knows which one it is...), the guys used to haul kegs up to the top of the football stands. I'm sure they don't do that anymore....lol!</p>

25

<p>"where there are very few 21 year olds living in dorms (it's a huge public university and mostly freshman live in the dorms). I'm sure it's different in schools where kids live in the dorms for all four years"</p>

<p>Could this be why universities charge so much for dorm housing? Could their true goal be in sapping all funds from kids hands to save them from beer by taking away the money to buy it? Could they really be saving our kids from alcohol by being so expensive that those whom need beer money have to go elsewhere to live? </p>

<p>;)</p>

26

<p>1) the number one rule of Greek life is that it varies by campus. Things that are common at one place are entirely foreign at another. Whether it's wet rush, parties in the chapter houses, or grueling hazing, these are going to vary on a institution by institution basis. There will of course be variation within a greek system, but we're talking about splitting hairs here. You're unlikely to find a house that viciously hazes on a campus where no one else does. You're unlikely to find a chapter that never parties in their chapter house when everyone else does. Often new colonies come in thinking they can be different, but over time they'll start joining the rest when they realize they can't compete for the top new members.</p>

<p>2) The term "Frat"...the comment retort at my alma mater - you would call your country a "four letter word that you can probably figure out", so why would you call your fraternity a "frat". </p>

<p>3) Yes, sometimes rush decisions can be petty. Given that this is a college admissions board, I'd think people can relate admissions decisions to the sometimes inexplicable reasons - whether they're right or wrong, they happen.</p>

<p>4) Yes parties, happen. But at many schools, the greeks are the most successful people on campus. At my alma mater, being Greek literally was instant credibility when applying for selective organizations. Most organizations, were over 70% Greek at a school where Greeks only make up 15% of the student population. More than half the guys in my chapter who graduated between two years ahead to 2 years behind me, have gone on to graduate or professional school of some sort, and I know the percentages for other top houses are roughly the same. </p>

<p>My girlfriend (who was not in sorority at the University of Washington - Seattle), upon meeting a number of my fraternity brothers at a wedding recently, remarked "Gosh, I should have joined a sorority, I could have met some successful men". Lucky for her, she's in medical school as it is, and even luckier - she met me...;)</p>

<p>That said, I know lots of other schools where the Greeks are far too worried about social outlets, booze, and drugs. You really have to look at what the Greeks are doing on campus to see if it's right for you.</p>

27

<p>omgosh....lol!! </p>

<p>Nothing personal bigred...but I don't think fraternities are hoarding all the 'successful men'...lol!! Seriously, I'd venture the 'successful man' rate for Greek vs. nonGreek is pretty on par. And probably the 'slacker/loser' rate as well. </p>

<p>(Do women really still go to college concerned about meeting successful men? Please tell me it isn't so...)</p>

28

<p>Fraternities give you more options to be successful, just like some other organizations do. Go to your chapter's alumni dinner and come home with 3 requests for your resume.</p>

29

<p>^This can be said for organizations other than Greek and for universities as a whole. For example, you do not want to see an Aggie ring on the guy who interviewed before you.... and then see that Aggie ring on the interviewer....unless you have one yourself. ;)</p>

30

<p>Just relaying a story. I'm not saying that all fraternities at all schools are full of guys who are heading off to law, dental, medical, and business school. Just that when I was introducing my friends at this wedding and telling my GDI girlfriend that so and so was in law school and so and so was in dental school and so and so was in medical school (as well as myself) that's what she said. I'm trying to make a point that at some schools you're greek affiliation definitely determines where you are headed and if you aren't greek at these schools you're in a world of hurt. But I recognize fully that there are other schools where being greek puts you at a severe disadvantage. </p>

<p>As far as personal experience goes, during the last 10 weeks of my third year of medical school I've had two attendings who were fraternity men at my alma mater and immediately we've had great conversations about our fraternity days. Even though we weren't in the same chapter and are sepeaated by decades, my bond with those physicians was much closer than other doctors I've rotated under, and my evaluations higher. Sharing a joke with those guys has gone much farther than I ever imagined. </p>

<p>Finally, the benefits of a fraternity can be matched by a number of different organizations, but no single organization can match the experience, friendship and leadership opportunities that a fraternity can. At my school I believe I would have had to be involved in 6-8 different organizations to get the same number of benefits that I received from the fraternity in one place. Again though this is not true at other schools, and I fully recognize that at some schools, fraternity life is very different.</p>

31

<p>A little bit I found out from searching through my school website: </p>

<p>80% of students graduating with honors (above a 3.2) are Greek.</p>

<p>60% of students pursuing graduate studies were Greek.</p>

<p>90% of the SGA Reps are Greek.</p>

<p>And 75% of the Undergraduate Judiciary is Greek. And this is all considering that Greeks are about 30-35% of our student population</p>

32

<p>We also have a lot more fun than GDI's :)</p>

33

<p>Again, school specific experiences. </p>

<p>If the social aspect of your university is dependent on Greek organizations and the school doesn't provide or encourage other options, a person might feel going Greek is a necessity. Ideally, a person would join a Greek organization because there is desire for brotherhood or sisterhood and they believe they have something to offer to the organization and community.... in addition to receiving reciprocal benefit. Less than ideal, but sometimes a hard reality, a person might feel they HAVE to join a Greek organization in order to 'fit in' or feel socially plugged in at a school. And btw, in some cases (my husband's), the school actually depends on Greek organizations to provide housing and encourages new students to explore the opportunities of Greek life.</p>

34

<p>Mr. B - are you a JHU alum?</p>

35

<p>I am no fan of Greek houses, but I must admit that they often do exert a "presence" on campus disproportionate to their numbers.</p>

<p>At my son's university, even though the number of students who join fraternities or sororities is small (about 10%), the influence of these organizations is significant simply because they are organized groups that are very involved in the university community. For example, in student government elections, the party supported by the Greek organizations almost always wins.</p>

36

<p>I have to point out often student governments and judiciaries are controlled by Greek organizations because of the significance of their voting block and cooperation among the houses to put Greeks in office. Even if the majority of a student body is independent, vote splitting ensures a concerted effort on the part of Greek organizations will be successful. An interesting and intense example is what goes on with student elections at University of Alabama.</p>

37

<p>I would like to comment on the last two posters who imply the greeks are involved in student government and events because they are organized and both imply that some sort of bad thing....</p>

<p>At my son's school they looked at excluding the greeks from activities because of that very "concern". The blocking out of the general student body...well guess what? in many cases the general student body doesn't give a rat's a ss about certain school activities. Events like homecoming and fundraisers or awareness programs need students that are a bit organized and willing to work together. How much really would get done on campus activity wise without greek volunteers? I think some folks complain about the meal but god help them if they had to put it together themselves.</p>

<p>In other words kicking the people who actually do student government, homecoming, fundraising and so on without having people willing to step in and pick up a "hammer" is not seeing the forest because of the trees. </p>

<p>When I went to college it was a means to an end, didn't care about student government, didn't care about homecoming, didn't care about fund rasing.. I was part of the general student population. I still think there are alot more "students" like myslef across colleges in america than not. </p>

<p>The fact that my kid did go greek, and that put him into situations where he thought alot more about other people, be they fellow students, special olympians, elementary school kids, the elderly and homeless single mothers.. than I ever cared about as a college student. </p>

<p>So really, it's a bad thing? Should he have stayed in the general student body? just come and go? stick to himself and his close friends? </p>

<p>Sometimes it is easier to kick those who do, rather than realize there are alot that don't.</p>

38

<p>I would think there is more vote-splitting amongst the Greeks as opposed to the independents vs. the Greeks. IFC and/or Panhel does not put up one candidate to represent the Greek vote. There are usually several candidates who may be members of different GLOs. It may be that one chapter may back up their sister or brother but it wouldn't be all the groups supporting a fellow Greek.</p>

<p>I believe that kids who pledge a fraternity or sorority like to be involved in various aspects of campus life. Hence, there is an "overrepresentation" of undergraduate Greeks in student government, student/alumni relations, admissions, community service because they are willing to get involved.</p>

39

<p>Opie, I liked your comments about community participation and greeks. I know for a fact that my son would not have done the community service and campus activities he's done if it wasn't for his fraternity. If you put students head to head (non fraternal vs. fraternal) in terms of community service involvement on my son's campus I'd bet money that the greeks come out ahead. </p>

<p>Sure, slam them for partying too much, slam them for hazing (although hazing is illegal and if it's done, it's done illegally), slam them for putting their own folks into office, slam them for getting their girls on the homecoming courts...but while you're at it give them a hand for the good things they do. </p>

<p>They are organized, they have leadership skills (both that have been brought to the table as well as cultivated within the fraternity itself), they are hardworking. Why wouldn't people with those attributes tend to be successful in campus government and other orgs? </p>

<p>Another thing that is overlooked is the encouragement given each other to actually go out and do these things. Fraternity members are highly encouraged to join to ambassador organizations, make good grades, get in the senate; fraternities want representatives all over campus. A lone student might have his friends backing him, but he probably doesn't have 50 to 100 people slapping him on the back everytime he does something great. That's a powerful motivator.</p>

40

<p>I think when we run into these situations there tends to be an example of extremes.. with the greeks it is always a bad sterotype of partiers who run everything at the expense of the innocent general student who "would" do all these good things if it weren't for the greeks.</p>

<p>Having neve been a greek myself, but running a all volunteer community youth sports organization there's one truism.... 5% of the people help 95% b itch about things real or imagined, but provide no help to solve the problem. I think most colleges would find without the greeks chipping in, many things wouldn't get done, and others still would require employees to complete.</p>