<p>I'm not trying to be provocative ... I really wonder what role adults, particularly dads, who were members of fraternities, have to play in bringing some sanity to the debauchery that underlies fraternity life, given the more widespread exposure of the darker side of some fraternities. This being just the latest example....</p>
<p>This is not a new problem ... it has been going on for decades; there were whispers/rumors of it 30 years ago when I was in college, and I'm sure it went on long before that. Every fraternity? No, of course not. But the rumors and whispers were widespread enough that why, as a young woman, would I want to risk associating with that? Why would any young man with any principles want to risk associating with that ... putting himself in the position of potentially being pressured to participate in something so demoralizing? I didn't understand it then, and I certainly don't understand it now that it is being much more widely publicized and discussed in the media. </p>
<p>I personally never went to a frat party and had very little respect for frat boys because the whole thing seemed so empty/shallow; too much testosterone in a confined space almost always leads to boorish behavior at the least and often temporarily-lowered IQs and really poor decision making. Yes, "frat boys", because nobody who allows such behavior to go on within the fraternity system, even if it is not <em>your</em> fraternity, without speaking out and standing up against it is anyone's "brother". Obviously some of you witnessed/participated/were aware of such goings-on when you pledged. Does your conscience not bother you about not speaking out? What do you tell your son about pledging a fraternity now? What do you tell your daughter about frat parties and frat boys? </p>
<p>My daughter is 15. I've had her sit down and read the articles about the Georgia Tech and UVa frats. "Is that all boys really think about girls, mom?" No, not all of them. But yes, some of them.... No, not all boys are nice, even when they act like they are.</p>
<p>Well as a “frat gal” of several decades ago (sorority) I can tell you that you are trucking in a lot of stereotypes. And as per usual, there is <em>some</em> truth to any stereotype. However, like other social groups, frathernities have individual personalities, the vast majority of which are benign. (in my experience) There are always a few bad apple fraternities, just as there may be a few bad apple brothers within an otherwise good fraternity. It was well known on our campus which of the fraternities had a bad reputation (2 of them out of 35 or so fraternities), and one was kicked out/disbanded when I was a sophomore. </p>
<p>You can find similar bad apples in virtually every walk of life: fraternities, sports teams, the clergy, youth counselors, teachers, “department of homeland security professionals,” major entertainers who are father figures…the list goes on.</p>
<p>The point of rush is to get a feel for the type of fraternity you’re considering pledging, and what type of guys are in that group. The 90-95 percent of fraternities that focus on fun, academics and service projects don’t make the news as often because it’s dull, but common, and of little interest to newspapers. </p>
<p>I was in a fraternity in the 80s, a middle-of-the-road one socially but respected for the huge parties. We attracted women because they knew they were safe, and that, in turn, attracted more men. It’s worth noting that W was not in a sorority and still has plenty of friends and connections from college.</p>
<p>There were rapes at fraternities while I was there and they almost all came from the “top frats,” the Phi Psis of my time. The football fraternity had a brutal rape of an underaged girl similar to the RS article. The basketball fraternity lost its charter for sexual assault. Two of the four “rich kid” fraternities were on probation.</p>
<p>My oldest is a college sophomore and I discouraged him from joining even though he was fairly heavily recruited. My D is a freshman and has never been to one, not really interested in the culture. If my youngest goes to college in the NE, I wouldn’t mind him joining nearly as much as I would if he goes in the west or south. IMO, there is less social division between frat/GDI in the NE.</p>
<p>I was a Phi Psi, ironically, at a smallish midwestern school in the early 80s and I can’t say it was a good thing. I did meet a lot of great, quality guys who have been life long friends but we also had some total degenerates that I remain embarrassed to be associated with and who did some pretty misogynistic, nasty, criminal things. Pretty much every one who applied to the school got in and it’s still the same way despite being a very good school and it seemed to me the worst offenders were pretty dumb guys. That’s what surprises me about the UVa thing. We had many terrific fun parties, but there were always those guys who were, frankly, creepy and they kind of ruined it for me. I’ve had nothing to do with the fraternity since the start of my senior year but all of us are guilty for looking the other way and not doing anything about it – still a source of regret. I can say if Osama bin Laden had been a phi psi ( and there’s nothing wrong with phi psi; every chapter is different) we would have found him a long time before we did cause these people keep tracking me down despite seven moves and my asking to be taken off the register some time ago. I wouldn’t necessarily discourage my son from joining a fraternity or social club depending on where he went to school, but we’ve talked about my experience. I make him read all these articles about rape on campus and we talk about it from time to time. For me, at the relatively small school I attended, it wasn’t necessary to be in a group like that to have a social life but my brothers had been in fraternities at a different school and had good experiences so I thought I would too. </p>
<p>My brother – who is now in his mid 30s, making him the age of many younger “frat dads” – was always more deliberate and explicit than my parents in warning me about the intentions of many young men. More than 10 years after graduation, he’s still very active in his fraternity. Because of men like him and other relatives in fraternities, I’ve never thought of fraternity membership in general as inherently negative. In the spirit of full disclosure, I would say that all of my male relatives in fraternities have pledged one of the Divine Nine (aka, traditionally black fraternities) at HBCUs, and I haven’t seen merely as many allegations about those types of fraternities as about groups at TWIs.</p>
<p>I hung around a number of frat guys, Dated them. Married one. What I saw at the frats were two different situations. When going to invitation only events, and being friends with them, knowing them, all was fine. Above board and gentlemen all. But freshman year I went to a few open parties, decided it was a meat market situation, and that was it for those things. It seemed to me at my school that the guys were predators more for the freshmen and women from other colleges and townies. If they knew you, it was a whole other story. </p>
<p>Never liked the idea of frats, but went to a school where Greek was pretty big, so avoiding a frat guy was nigh impossible. They did tend to be the most socially adept of the guys. </p>
<p>My DH had nothing to do with his frat after sophomore year. Didn’t like the culture, had more friends outside the frat than in. I knew his frat brothers better than he did, as many of my friends were dating and involved with them, as I was to some degree. </p>
<p>I have no trouble believing the gang rape story. I truly believe that there is a predatory nature of the frat parties. I knew many women who were hurt terribly by the cavalier attitudes those guys had, but that is not limited to frats, I have to say. Know only one woman who was raped, only one who confided in me, at my school, but I knew of some sordid going ons with other women, not at the school. There was an attitude of disdain about the females from town and the other schools. That was all many years ago.</p>
<p>People often say-- I think some may have said it in this thread-- that they don’t know anyone who was raped. Maybe, but probably they just don’t know anyone who has told them about their rape.</p>
<p>I was on a bike ride today with a friend, and I mentioned the UVa gang rape story. He said quietly, “My daughter was gang raped.” This was the first I’d heard of this, though it happened a few years ago when she was a high school sophomore. If he didn’t tell me this, and we are close friends, I must assume that many women I know have been raped and haven’t cared to talk about it in public, for understandable reasons.</p>