<p>I know there is a whole discussion on another thread discussing the reasons one should or shouldn’t pledge a fraternity but I think my son has made up his mind already. I have been reading some articles on hazing that were attached to links on this forum and quite frankly I am really worried about serious (as in life-threatening) consequences. I just read the story about a pledge at UA in 2009 that was totally intoxicated, unconscious and put in a truck and fell out while it was moving, suffered very serious injuries, and dumped back in his dorm room…really??? My son wants to pledge a fraternity for all the positives that come along with it and because we live so far away I thought it would be a good idea so he had the opportunity to meet people and have a social life right away but after reading some of the stories now I am not so sure I want to go along with this. This isn’t your typical “clean the frat house after parties”, "drinking till you vomit (which I am also fearful of because of the number of deaths that go along with that) - this goes way beyond that. I know that UA has certain rules or policies against hazing but obviously they are ignored until something drastic happens so my question is if my son insists on going thru with this anyway, are there certain frats that are know to be particularly brutal during pledging? Are there ones that are known not to be so reckless? I’m just trying to figure out if I can at least guide him in a direction that might be a bit safer. Does anyone have any reassuring words for a mom that is sort of freaking out about what I have been reading??</p>
<p>The hazing and behaviors mentioned on the other thread are not exclusive to the UA. We live in Georgia and there are very disturbing things that happen on the campus of our flagship. Although there are restrictions in place, the only true way to regulate this is from within, meaning pledges who refuse to participate or accept it. There are a couple of moms on here who may be able to help you with their sons’ experiences who seemed to be better and I would recommend you speak with them and seek their guidance. I specifically recall one who said her son’s house was okay with his choice not to drink. There may very well be a good alternative which would allow him to pledge and enjoy his experience without the foolishness that has been described. If not, I personally would be disappointed if my child felt it necessary to participate in or submit to such demeaning behavior. It is the equivalent to organized bullying.</p>
<p>This disturbing behavior isn’t limited to Greeks. The national news and our regional news has been covering the death of a marching band student at FSU. His death, and the serious injuries of many students over past years, was the direct result of hazing at the hand of his classmates. The young man was beaten to death on the bus. The ritual includes repeated punching as students board or depart the bus. It is shameful and completely intolerable how we allow this to go on for social acceptance or status. Seeing these grieving parents bury their son was heartbreaking and unnecessary.</p>
<p>The statement has been made on other threads that some of us just cannot understand the system…no…I guess I don’t.</p>
<p>My husband was in one of the top fraternities at a Big 10 back in the 80s. The drinking age was 18 and hazing was the norm. However, the houses that actually believed and lived by their philosophical standards, such as men of good character, scholarship, etc., didnt give a bid to a young man who would do anything to become a member of their fraternity. They wanted men who had standards. </p>
<p>He has never, and will never, share what happened during pledge week because he has always taken the oath of silence that he promised to his fraternity seriously. He has had numerous conversations with our son about going through the rush process and pledging and has made it clear to him that part of pledge week (at least for my husbands fraternity) was testing the character of the men who would become their brothers. He said that there were a few guys who did not make it through pledge week because they were asked to do specific things that were not indicative of a man of good character and they agreed to do them. The men who did make it through respectfully said no, which is what was expected of them. </p>
<p>The lesson that my husband has taught my son is that its not worth lowering his standards and values to become a member of a fraternity. </p>
<p>If the members of a fraternity expect their pledges to drink to excess or engage in dangerous or immoral behavior then why in the world would anyone want to be associated with them? </p>
<p>Our son has been invited to attend several weekend parties and events at various fraternities this spring. Hes flying to Bama today to spend the weekend at a house that he liked when he went to Greek Preview. He has had the pleasure of meeting several awesome young men from different fraternities and Ive had a few conversations with the rush chairmen from two houses (making sure that he will have a place to sleep and figuring out how he will get to and from the airport) and they were both polite and intelligent young men. </p>
<p>Malanai and ahpimommy will agree with me when I say that the majority of the fraternities at UA are filled with solid, wonderful young men. There are 29 fraternities at UA and Im sure that a few resemble Animal House. Trust your son to be able to figure out which ones represent character and which ones are built solely on having a place to party 24/7.
Ultimately, each young man who decided to go through rush and then accept a bid and pledge a fraternity must be responsible for their own choices. You can lead a horse to water but you cant make him drink it unless he really wants to.</p>
<p>Well said. This sounds like exactly what the poster wants for her son.</p>
<p>I don’t think anyone here should point out which houses are “intolerable” and “tolerable” on a public forum. If one feels compelled to do so, a pm would be more suitable. Publicly stating “this” or “that”, as fact, is considered tent talk and it’s a true disservice to any student considering going through recruitment. Have faith in your young adult to make the decision that’s right for him.
Everyone’s experience is different. Alcohol topics, hopefully, have been fully covered repeatedly in the home before sticking them in a social situation that may be harmful. Just as a general question:
How many of you parents truly believe that your child is going to be alcohol-free for the entirety of college? For example, I took 4 young adults (over 18yo) on spring break this year. I met with each set of parents for a pre-departure meeting to hear their expectations and limits for their child.
One dad told me, “oh, she doesn’t have a taste for alcohol. It’s not her thing. She’s been around too many of her friends that get out of control and that’s just not her.” I was pleased to hear that since I had to keep an eye on them. Lo and behold, that was the ONE that I needed to reel in more than once. It’s just an example of parents that don’t really know what their kid is like when they’re out and about without mommy and daddy breathing down her neck. I have a strong suspicion that this was not her first time on the playground.
Not all frats are the same. Not all sororities are the same. Not one individual experience is the same.
Our students are young adults now. It’s time to let them spread their wings without parents hovering over their every move. Our kids may be different than what we “think”. Obviously, WE always know better…but the kids should decide if going Greek is their thing.
I believe that choosing to be part of the Greek system should be researched and that you educate yourself. Just like choosing a school, I’m certain that your student has researched and educated himself before making a decision where to attend college.
Our views and beliefs will vary from that of our offspring. That’s good. That’s being open-minded.
There have been thousands upon thousands of alum that would tell you that they had a wonderful experience within the Greek system. With every single situation in the world, there will be issues!
When the media gets a hold of a top headliner, that is all that we’ll see/hear for weeks. Remember, on the other side, a thousand more would have a different story. We have a mixed bag of Greeks and non-Greeks in our family. I must remind myself over and over to not “label” one child Greek material or not. It’s her own personal choice. It’s my responsibility to say whether or not this is financially doable.
From my experience, the more stories that I hear (which are generally the negative ones) causes much more angst than necessary. It’s our culture. Bad stories live on and on. Positive ones are given a smile and nod then forgotten.
As parents, we have anxiety over decisions that our kids make or will be making. That’s normal. Trying to persuade your child into making the decision of your choice is not.
If you share a “scary” story with him/her, also share a positive one.</p>
<p>I agree that it would be subject to personal opinion and in poor taste to name houses here. And my issues are with hazing and negative behavior, not particularly with the Greek system. I don’t understand a person’s angst for wanting so badly to be involved in any organization which would ask one to submit or participate in it whether it is a Greek organization or other. Of course, that is up to individual choice.</p>
<p>Thanks for all of the responses - I guess I am a bit anxious over this because you mostly only hear the bad stories. I am certainly aware that he drinks and will do so in college but he doesn’t drink to the point that he vomits and passes out while people stand around either unaware or are too afraid to do anything about it. As far as researching the fraternities that would be a good fit for him it’s kind of tough. He doesn’t know anyone at all at UA and we only just recently found out during our campus visit a few weeks ago that the rush process is underway. We live in NJ so it’s not easy for him to get down there for any parties or events to get to know any of the guys. We are going for BB June 18-19 but I’m not sure how much will really be going on to get a sense of what kind of guys each frat has and what values they hold. I know he has registered with the IFC and has emailed a few people but other than that how do you “research” a frat without being there? The semester is almost over and I don’t know what other opportunities he will have to meet any members other than BB in June - thanks for any input!</p>
<p>I agree with the others and will respectfully decline to post “tent talk” about specific fraternities and sororities. </p>
<p>While there are some houses which haze, but it is up to the individual student to decide if they should participate. If a student does not feel comfortable participating in an activity, they should respectfully decline to participate. As lovemykids2 posted, this can be the answer the active members are looking for. At the same time, don’t be afraid to try new things within reason. For example thousands, if not millions, of people make a living as maids, janitors, and administrative assistants.</p>
<p>In short, Greek organizations are choosing you as a person. Why try to be someone else?</p>
<p>Have you tried going back through the previous threads on this board to find others relating to fraternities or rushing? You may find comments and names of posters you could contact for specific guidance on particular houses and their child’s experience. :)</p>
<p>And yes, it is possible for students to refrain from drinking throughout their college experience. My D doesn’t drink and has no plans to do so. And no, I’m not fooling myself. :)</p>
<p>smr- It’s not plausible to “research” a particular frat.
Every pledge class changes the dynamic of that particular house.
I suggest to research the Greek system. When you or your son do, there will be lots of information regarding the pros and cons of Greek life. You either want to be a Greek or you don’t. It shouldn’t be based on, “I want to be a member of this particular frat or vice versa”.
Researching frats on a one by one basis would be a challenge since each year brings a new set of pledges.
Sounds like he’s certainly entertaining the idea of being in a fraternity, he has taken the initial step of registering, putting himself out there and continuing to make connections. From this point, it’s a mutual selection. He doesn’t just go choose one. If there’s a connection or interest, he will know.
I’m certain that he will make the right choice for himself and have a great time at BAMA.</p>
<p>bamagirls-</p>
<p>I did go back on the thread and sent a few pms so I will see if they get back to me. Thanks! I obviously want him to make his own choice and go with what he feels comfortable but he also realizes that bids are going out spring and summer and he doesn’t have the opportunity to get know any of the members being that we live so far away. I wish he could just wait until he gets there in the fall and go thru the process but will that be too late? Given the fact that we are from NJ and he doesn’t know anyone at UA will he really be at a disadvantage? I guess what is meant to be will be…</p>
<p>As far as making friends I see no disadvantage. Those who have sons in the Greek system would be better to answer about how it may or may not affect his chances of pledging. I realize you are a mom just like many of us on here and want the best for your son. I, too, would be trying to find out as much information as I could if I had a son who was considering Greek life and I share your concern about the possibility of hazing. I’m sure some have had wonderful experiences by going Greek. I just want to assure you that whatever his choice is he will be fine and make plenty of friends. There are many Greeks on campus as with other major schools, but it is NOT the only way to be happy, make friends, or be successful at the UA or beyond. It is simply a choice of lifestyle which may or may not be beneficial to a student depending upon his or her personal preferences. My D chose not to rush and she has made some very good friends who have a great time at the UA. She has received wonderful opportunities and awards and does not feel left out or that she is or will suffer from her choice not to rush. I am so happy for your family that your son has chosen to attend the UA. Despite our disagreements on this board sometimes, the UA really does have a “family” feel that we love…always…Roll Tide!</p>
<p>I know that there are some students who have not pledged during their freshman year but went Greek later on.</p>
<p>Formal fall rush is in late August/early sept for fraternities. Whilst many of the ‘Old Row’ houses may have filled up their pledge classes, many other houses will not and will be wanting to meet new guys. I will also say, that being from OOS most likely means he had a much smaller shot at those Old Row places anyways, as they recruit predominantly guys they know from home/HS/church etc. I think he has a great chance of joining a fraternity just by going through fall rush (or even spring, or even as a sophomore)</p>
<p>There are several parents on here who’s sons are from OOS, didn’t do summer rush and joined in the fall</p>
<p>As for hazing, the BEST defence is ensure your children are raised with enough sense of self worth to say ‘no’ when asked to do something that makes them feel uncomfortable, just be accepted into a group (be it a Greek house, the soccer team, a clique on the dorm)…that they aren’t so desperate for acceptance that they will do anything… AND that once they become the senior members that they do not perpetuate this cycle by encouraging new members to do illegal or dangerous things for membership or to belong</p>
<p>A lot of fraternities, by the way, don’t want pledges/members who cannot handle their drink. They are on the look out for guys who drink too much/make a fool of themselves or get over excited about the free booze and go crazy. Why? Because it puts off the sororities!</p>
<p>Thanks - glad to hear that by waiting he will have opportunities to get a bid - how do you know which houses are “old” row and which are the “new” row ones? </p>
<p>I am sure once he gets there and gets the chance to interact with everyone he will figure it all out - he is a very outgoing kid so he will have to figure out the social life there !</p>
<p>As SoccerGirl mentions, S is oos and he didn’t start looking at houses until the fall and received a couple of bids, so that is a fine strategy as long as you don’t feel you have to be in old row. </p>
<p>As far as specific fraternities. Look at the gpa list. They list gpa’s for recruits and the house as a whole. I know it doesn’t tell the whole story, but I think it is good to look at.</p>
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<p>As many of you know, I am one of those parents. My son arrived at 'Bama in Fall 2010 as a devout GDI. He came home for Christmas as a pledged brother in a fraternity. As a family, we have zero tolerance for hazing. </p>
<p>I called him two days ago to discuss the concerns voiced in this thread. It was Friday, about 5pm, and, lo and behold, he wasn’t setting up the kegs for an A-Day Puke-a-Palooza. Quite randomly I caught him in the midst of what he described as a “philanthropy project,” in which his fraternity was cleaning up debris and helping salvage recyclables still remaining from last year’s tornado . . . smack dab in the middle of Happy Hour. </p>
<p>With respect to forced drinking he said no one in his fraternity is required to drink a drop, much less to the point of vomiting. I asked if that choice was made transparent to him during his pledge activities and he said yes. He added that no one in his fraternity is ever struck physically.</p>
<p>I’m going to use the following definition of hazing for the remaining portion of this post. It’s taken straight from Wikipedia and may not correspond with your definition: </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>As we all know, there are initiation activities as part of the pledge process. And, as my son reminded me, they are secret. That said, we discussed the purpose of the activities in which he participated, why he made the choice to participate, and whether or not he ever felt harassed, abused, or humiliated.</p>
<p>What emerged from our discussion is that his initiation/pledge process was a form of experiential education (learning by doing) that was graded, if you will, on an ongoing basis. The “curriculum” included: cultural and historical appreciation (not to be confused with brainwashing), service to the community, discipline, reinforcement of the principle that privileges are earned (not divined), appropriate respect for elders, and an emphasis on learning that choices have consequences (for better or worse). Sorry I can’t be more specific than that, though I think it’s ok to say that part of the process included mandatory study halls (dreadful, I know 
).</p>
<p>My son insisted that while it was all quite challenging, he never felt harassed, abused, or humiliated. It was all in framing things constructively in his mindset. Rather than feeling beaten down in any way, he thought that he and his fellow pledges bonded together and formed an esprit de corps that carried them through.</p>
<p>So, was it tough? Did it involve a lot of hours? My son said, “Yes. But it was good for me.” (As a frame of reference, he made the President’s List that semester.)</p>
<p>His fraternity includes members who represent the Honors College, Fellows Program, National Merit Finalists, Presidential Scholars, Dean’s/President’s List, and other credentials connoting academic achievement. It also includes students who are not in the Honors College. They are not an elitist bunch.</p>
<p>Greek life is not for everyone (it wasn’t for me). But there is something for everyone at 'Bama. And, as has been stated over and over on this forum, non-Greeks represent the VAST majority of students at UA. </p>
<p>Group dynamics and peer pressure can be powerful forces. They can make it very difficult to summon the courage of our convictions, but summon we (and our children) must! Nothing (at least in my thin book) trumps personal accountability and responsibility when it comes to the decisions we make.</p>
<p>Roll Tide.</p>
<p>“Greek life is not for everyone (it wasn’t for me). But there is something for everyone at 'Bama. And, as has been stated over and over on this forum, non-Greeks represent the VAST majority of students at UA.”</p>
<pre><code>Exactly right. The broad statement and generalizations on the other thread do not portray a fair account of the opportunities on campus. Going Greek is just one of many opportunities on campus and is a personal choice. Not going Greek does not have a negative impact on one’s experience on campus or beyond graduation.
</code></pre>
<p>“Group dynamics and peer pressure can be powerful forces. They can make it very difficult to summon the courage of our convictions, but summon we (and our children) must! Nothing (at least in my thin book) trumps personal accountability and responsibility when it comes to the decisions we make.”</p>
<p>I couldn’t agree more. Thank you for sharing your son’s experience, a positive one, which supports personal responsibility and choice. Some of the statements on the other thread left me wondering why one would feel it necessary to join any organization or feel such angst about joining one, Greek or otherwise, that was not in keeping with their own values and sense of character. Thank you for providing a snapshot of your son’s experience proving that it really isn’t necessary to lower one’s standards to fit in. The decisions we (and our children) make must be our own and the responsibility and accountability will also rest upon those same shoulders. We’ve taught our children from a very young age that they must think for themselves using the values we have worked so hard to instill in them. They know the choices they make are ultimately theirs along with the accountability and consequences, so they must be careful whom they follow or lead for themselves.</p>
<p>^^^Malanai, as usual, you have led us to the higher ground, or as Shakespeare wrote “This above all:To thine own self be true”.</p>
<p>Thank you everyone for your input, advice, insight and experiences. I really appreciate you all taking the time to share your words - it has DEFINITELY made me feel better about the whole idea of him pledging. Thanks for the reassuring words to a concerned mom! I know there are so many positives to him pledging and I am glad my concerns were addressed. I look forward to him finding his way at UA and finding a great group of friends to share his college years with.</p>
<p>Roll Tide !!</p>