I’m sure most of the women on this board have felt the difference between a squeeze and “squeezing by.” Probably some men, too.
The moment you expel violators for a first offense.
These kinds of rules are being implemented all over. Kid’s school has similar. In some cases the Frat party is now “safer” than the bars.
@EyeVeee I know you don’t condone it, but why should the answer be, if girls don’t like it, then don’t go to the party and maybe the boys will wise up. That seems backwards to me. It’s not like we’re trying to train a dog to use a wee wee pad. Why don’t we teach our sons, say starting in middle school what it means to respect women and have dads model that behavior for them. That behavior should just not be happening.
So anyone could throw a party there? Or only the frat could?
“What Swat is now going to find is a campus with less to do socially. The rigors of the academic programs need a release valve at times, and removing one of those from a small campus already lacking large social activities has the potential to make things worse. Will sexual assualt stop when the drinking and partying moves to groups of 10 in a dorm room versus 200 in a larger venue? Will Swarthmore feel more and more isolated to the students as the ability to interact with anyone outside your core friend group shrinks? Will the Tri-Co interactions go away because BM and Haverford kids don’t come for the frat parties or other events?”
I call BS on this. Plenty of LACs have no greek life and still have plenty to do on campus, including parties. You don’t need greek life to through good parties. Haverford students throw plenty of their own fun parties with zero greek life. And I’ll also add that Haverford’s Quaker Bouncer system is a real plus in my opinion in terms of keeping students a little bit safer re: drinking and sexual assault.
I don’t have sons, I have daughters. I agree with you, but until others do a better job, I’ll tell them to avoid situations that make them uncomfortable and/or may be threatening. I also told them to surround themselves with friends, and not drink to a point where they can’t protect yourself.
@OHMomof2 - I’m told that only the fraternities could use the space.
On my part, I apologize for, and completely retract, my harsh words which were, thankfully, deleted.
You are also right in that football is problematic, since, aside from deaths, it has so many terrible injuries, and it also has issues of hazing.
Because that’s fantasy land utopia. You’re demanding behavior. Teaching daughters not to go, or otherwise not associate with jerks may actually change behavior. No girls want to hang out at a house full of creeps.
Eyevee- I agree with you to a point. But what happens when it’s not a drunk frat guy groping your daughter but her boss? Or the CEO of her company? Or her firm’s major client?
Yes, young women should learn ways of NOT putting themselves in harms way. And it is likely more dangerous to hang out at a party with a lot of drunk people, than it is to attend a chamber music concert. But the strategies you are teaching your daughters don’t work in the real world. I had a boss who was a lech- you didn’t have the option of showing up with three colleagues every time you had to meet with him, or worse, get on an airplane with him. I’ve had clients behave in horrible and disgusting ways- and just not showing up at a meeting is not an option if you need to pay a mortgage that month.
So I do wonder- yes- I am careful (like every other middle aged, professional woman I know) to avoid potentially dangerous situations. But why couldn’t these awful men have learned some self-restraint back in middle school? What senior leader of a big company thinks it’s ok to host a meeting with a subordinate in a hotel room (with an unmade bed, no less).
Yes, teach your daughters to avoid drunken frat parties. But what about the unavoidable, incredibly stressful situations they’ll face in their careers-- often created by these same drunken bores who are now all grown up (no more “boys will be boys” when it’s a 55 year old CFO, right?)
@doschicos - Haverford has arguably the exact same situation with “Drinker”, the baseball house. They may not have a national Greek charter, but they have a private space (with living accommodations for 18) and are in many ways the social “elites” on campus. No Quaker bouncers required.
Last I knew (a couple years back), baseball players were no longer in Drinker House, intentionally. Do you know for a fact that has changed, @EyeVeee?
@blossom - When these children become adults, they need to be punished for their actions. When that happens, we just need to be careful to consider the facts and not immediately assume guilt. Finally, I think society is more and more willing to believe accusers and punish perpetrators.
Until everyone plays by the rules, I’ll advise my family to be careful.
@doschicos - yes. I have a daughter at Haverford right now.
[qoute]
@EyeVeee I know you don’t condone it, but why should the answer be, if girls don’t like it, then don’t go to the party and maybe the boys will wise up. That seems backwards to me. It’s not like we’re trying to train a dog to use a wee wee pad. Why don’t we teach our sons, say starting in middle school what it means to respect women and have dads model that behavior for them. That behavior should just not be happening.
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Unbelievable. Do you seriously believe that fathers are modeling groping women?
Well, that’s disappointing to hear, @EyeVeee about the baseball team and drinker, and yes, at any school sports teams can be a nuisance.
Given your daughter is at Haverford you then know very well that campus social life/partying is just fine without greek life and that also includes events and parties that are not connected to sports teams.
@tpike I didn’t say fathers were teaching sons to grope, I said they need to teach sons to be respectful of women, by modeling good behavior. Though I can think of a very public figure with a groping history who has sons!
There are so many! Which just goes to show the extent of the problem.
MODERATOR’S NOTE:
There are. I don’t think we need to list the examples. Deleting those posts that did.