"Free Ride"

Colleges and Universities A-Z Cornell University
41

<p>hey figgy, didn't mean any offense, calling a university "rich" is confusing to me for the same reason calling a corporation "rich" would be. ("microsoft is rich"?) ...especially since cornell's endowment isn't particularly high, per capita (if it were, Cornell could probably join the ranks of schools with no tuition cost for lowest-income students and this thread would not exist.)</p>

<p>sallyawp, I agree that it's important to take charge of one's future. however, everywhere I look I find more and more evidence that one's ability to pay back loans isn't significantly affected by what college one attends. there was an article in the nytimes about that this morning: <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/30/education/edlife/gems.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/30/education/edlife/gems.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>I love Cornell and if you handed me a transfer to any other school in the world I wouldn't take it. But my parents are making an extremely generous contribution to my education that I only hope I can pay forward to my kids someday. I don't think it's fair to tell people that taking out tens of thousands of dollars in loans to attend Cornell will automatically put them in a better financial situation than taking out no loans and going to a state school that gives merit scholarships and charges less for tuition. Key word being financial--they may <em>enjoy</em> Cornell more, and they may indeed find better opportunities for research, lifelong friends, etc, but if a student works equally hard at a cheaper school I think they very well might come out of school (and end up, in the long run) in a better economic situation.</p>

<p>So, what if Cornell cost $100,000 a year? $1,000,000? Would it still be worth taking out loans then? There's a line somewhere where it is no longer feasible to borrow and say "oh well, the diploma will make up for it" but you're not taking that into account. I appreciate your frustration at kids who glide through college and take for granted that the tuition bill will be paid but it's not reasonable to tell kids who can't do that to ignore it and pay everything off later.</p>

<p>I hope Cornell works on this--the quality and quantity of financial aid--bcause clearly it is affecting the decisions of some pretty bright kids. Best of luck to malakiblue and harvardman--your situation isn't easy. For what it's worth, harvardman, I know you can pay off a several thousand dollar loan after college and I think Cornell will be worth that for you. I just get worried when students are looking at tens and tens of thousands of dollars of debt.</p>

42

<p>my fafsa efc was 18,000-19,000, my Cornell EFC was like 11,000 or something</p>

<p>my parents also make 40,000 off the books, lol. </p>

<p>grants- ~5,500
loans- ~10,000</p>

43

<p>IF cornell cost six figures a year, then I could see your point. But I think you and I both know that the diploma is worth the debt. We all know how competitive the job market is these days. Going to a good school like cornell would more than likely be the difference between getting a good job or admission into a well-respected med/law/business school and ending up with a mediocre job or at a low-ranked grad school. I'd rather be saddled with some debt and be able to eat it a few years later when my career gets up to speed than half-ass it and end up in a deadend job. I personally am an engineering major, and, straight out of school, I will be making peanuts compared to the doctors, lawyers, and I-bankers of the world. Yet, even just comparing the mean cornell engineering salary vs. the national mean, the difference alone is enough to make up about 8-10k a year. That's not including the benefits of name recognition, alumni/business connections, a better shot at grad school in the future, and the value of becoming friends with plenty of driven, goal oriented people who may just become assets later in your life and career. I don't think you can put a price tag on that. So I tend to agree wholeheartedly with Sally. Do what it takes. Make it happen. If you have to bust your ass to get there, then when you finally end up in the red it will be that much sweeter.</p>

44

<p>Look, I'm not suggesting that anyone take out well over $100,000 in student loans like I had to do. It's not easy to pay them off. What I am saying is that if Cornell goes far enough with its financial aid package so that your expected contribution to your tuition, room and board is only $10,000 per year, what's so bad about that? For goodness sakes, that includes room and board, and it's not so far fetched to spend $10,000 a year just on living and eating expenses if you were out on your own. You can't even attend most large state universities for that price. I was simply pointing out that griping about not getting a full ride to Cornell, no matter what your financial circumstances are at home, sounds pretty darn ungrateful to me when Cornell (or any other university who has done as much, for that matter) has put an ivy league education within reach. Ten thousand dollars a year is not too much to pay for an investment in yourself that pays off for the rest of your life -- whether you receive your college education at Cornell or elsewhere. The beauty of the situation of which I spoke is that that student can get a CORNELL experience for a grand total of approximately $40,000 over four years. Sounds like a bargain to me.</p>

45

<p>Taking loans is a personal decision that requires a person to judge what they are comfortable with. I personally think that 40,000 in loans for undergraduate plus graduate debt (which can be extremely high dependig on what you are doing) is absolutely not "doable" as some of the above posters would think. You would be seriously limiting your financial options right out of school which sucks of you are looking to do things like get married or buy a house right away. Also, some people in certain majors at Cornell are not going to have a particularly easy time paying off tens of thousands of dollars in loans. Engineers probably won't have a problem. But what if you were a Linguistics or Classics major who decides to live in the City (just a random example). If you don't think you can realistically afford to go to Cornell then I would undoubtably encourage you to seek more money. If you can't get more and its still unaffordable (as you see it) then go somewhere else. I mean if you are truely talented, you will do well even if you end up at a slightly lesser ranked school.</p>

46

<p>I agree with what starmel just said, and actually had something to that effect in my post but got rid of it. Which is that there's going to be an exception for someone like a classics major, where you are going to be going into academia, or becoming a writer or something, as compared to a degree which will land you a job in a professional field. Obviously if you aren't going to be making any money, then paying off debts will be hard! But the majority of majors at cornell are going to land you a top notch job, and i truly feel that in that situation the debt would be worth it.</p>

47

<p>Well...the major of Classics keeps coming up. Thats the major I would choose if accepted. I thought it would be a good major along with Romance Languages. I plan on going to law school and then become a professor of law (international law). So should I stay away from this major?!</p>

48

<p>what the hell, you don't have to pay cash on the money Cornell doesn't cover. Get a US Bank loan for god's sake, the interest rate is low. I don't understand, all you have to do is take another loan to cover what cornell didn't, it's not like you won't be able to pay it off when you get older.</p>

<p>Classics can lead to law. Also, in academica many professors make upwards of $145,000, and our Cornell President makes $600,000+. Academia pay rather well.</p>

49

<p>"If you can't get more and its still unaffordable (as you see it) then go somewhere else. I mean if you are truely talented, you will do well even if you end up at a slightly lesser ranked school."</p>

<p>Unfortunately, where else can you go and pay $10,000 per year or less for tuition, room and board? Perhaps you can go to community college and live at home, but then you're not comparing apples to apples. Tuition, room and board plus estimated costs for books at SUNY is over $17,000 per year. Tuition, room and board plus estimated costs for books at the University of Virginia is just under $18,000 per year. The costs of the same at the University of Michigan are approximately $21,000 per year. University of California - just under $23,000 per year. You get the idea -- and these numbers are all in state tuition, so not every student will pay so little to go to these schools. There is also typically a lot less financial aid available at state schools. Maybe you can hang your hopes on some fantastic merit scholarship? </p>

<p>The reality is that if taking out $10,000 a year in loans seems too unreasonable to you, you don't have many options. A $40,000 investment in your education might seem like a lot to someone who has parents willing and able to pay or some other means of financing his or her education. However, if it is a choice between $10,000 a year in loans or NOT going to college at all, I think that the loans are not such a bad idea. So maybe you'll have to work for a year or two before going to graduate school, or save for a few years extra before buying a house or buy a used car instead of new. So what? You are still better off for having gone to college and taken out the loans. You have to face the realities here.</p>

50

<p>"Perhaps you can go to community college and live at home, but then you're not comparing apples to apples"</p>

<p>YOU are the one whos not comparing apples to apples. how can you compare an ivy league school to state schools? perhaps you can compare cornell to other ivies. even the lesser ones like dartmouth and u penn. If you take the same person with the same family situation and put them in another ivy league school, GUARANTEED, they'll get more money. I understand cornell is huge, and they have state affliations, bla bla bla. That doesnt give the rights to squeeze us because I know they got money. its a fact. but if they wanna be stingy, you cant do anything about it. In the end, they are the ones who will eventually lose students to dartmouth, and u penn, and brown.</p>

51

<p>"YOU are the one whos not comparing apples to apples. how can you compare an ivy league school to state schools?" </p>

<p>I'm sorry, but you clearly did not understand the point that I was trying to make. All I was trying to say is that paying $10,000 to go to college is not that much money -- whether it's at a state school or Harvard. I only used the state school costs as a model for what a great deal Cornell is at $10,000 per year because you're going to have a difficult time finding a better deal in the marketplace. You're making an entirely different point that is not at all responsive to what I had to say. </p>

<p>However, in resopnse to your comments, I have a hard time believing that Cornell is trying to "squeeze" you. Why would they bother? You have choices in education, and Cornell has every incentive (just like every other school) to make it possible for you to attend once you've been accepted. You may be correct that another ivy league school might give you more financial aid money than Cornell, but unless you've actually applied for and received financial aid from these other schools we just can't know for sure. If you can go to school for free somewhere else and that is the single most important factor in your decision about where to go to school, by all means go somewhere else. Otherwise, the reality check for you is that $10,000 a year is a great deal for tuition, room and board. If you think that you are entitled to go to school for free, then all you need to do is find someplace willing to give you a full ride. If going to the ivy league is a priority, then take a gap year, reapply, and find another ivy league school willing to do more for you. Otherwise, recognize that Cornell is offering you a good education at a fair price and make your choice.</p>

52

<p>Ok, I don't think you understand what people were saying earlier. From what I understand, many people have been getting $10,000 dollars in loans plus a hefty parent contribution. When you combine summer earnings with a big parent contribution (which may have to be covered with a loan as well), and extra $40,000 plus grad school debt is alot of money have on your back. But then again, that may be a drop in the bucket for some people on this board. While it is true that you have the POTENTIAL for a big payoff with a Cornell education, that is by no means guarenteed. Life happens even for Cornell alums. And there are many who are trying to maintain middle class status (ive talked to plenty during phone-a-thons). You may be willing to gamble with your financial future but that doesn't mean that is a reasonable choice for everyone. Also, I wasn't trying to knock the Classics major. I'm sure you can do very well :)</p>

53

<p>ps about the grad school thing (along with it being my plan)...you arrange for the company that you work for to help/or full out pay for it. It is what my goal is going to be and hopefully lots of people will get that deal. </p>

<p>I remember reading an article about 10 or so harvard business school grads and most of them were actually struggling at one time or another. A few were extremely successful. It's just what is going to happen. It's partly what you put into it and it's part luck. If you have the attitude that it will pay off to have this education, well damnit make it happen!</p>

54

<p>I received a "full ride" from Cornell University in the form of a Cornell grant and a national scholarship (MFCNS). This is an anomaly, though, as I am a white, middle-class student who doesn't necessarily require such generous aid. Regardless, I was recruited for the architecture program: contacted personally every few weeks, given a scholarship, given money, given early notice as a RD applicant, etc. </p>

<p>Money is thus used in two ways: for need-based purposes, and for recruitment. If you are trying to get money that you don't necessarily need (why not?), then you better be in the top of the already outstanding applicant pool. Evidence your passions and be yourself-- you can't do much else.</p>

55

<p>Jesus, recruited by architecture? That's crazy. How'd you manage that, suckah?</p>

56

<p>Ya wow congrats</p>

57

<p>Like i said, all i did was show them as best as i could my passion for architecture and life in general. i wrote honest essays about leadership and my love for people, swimming, learning, and teaching; submitted a portfolio of ideas; had fun in the interview, etc. </p>

<p>you don't want to have the mentality that things can be attained if you change something about yourself (not directed to anyone specific). if you think you can succeed at cornell and take full advantage of the education it offers, apply by all means-- it's an amazing place. i'm so humbled and excited to start by undergraduate carreer as a Cornellian. :)</p>

58

<p>nice, you must really good. Congratz</p>

59

<p>I realize that absolutely nobody here is going to feel sorry for me. But it's just as tough in my position as it is for someone coming from a lower-income family having to take out loans. I completely symphatize with someone who had to turn down their top-choice school, because I had to do it too.</p>

<p>I'll be honest. My family is upper-middle class, annual income in the upper $100s. I've had the opportunity to do pretty much everything I've wanted. We aren't big spenders, we don't have a boat, cottage,we don't take extravagant vacations or go out for fancy dinners, we don't live beyond or means, etc. Yeah, it probably doesn't look good that we own a 2005 car (well...it's a Dodge Neon) and lease two 2006 Dodge Durangos, but my mom works for Chrysler and gets a good deal, so cut some slack. Reality was that we wouldn't get financial aid with our income, despite the higher cost of living in our area. So my parents had two kids to save for college, plus a mortgage, bills, retirement, etc.</p>

<p>When April 1 rolled around, I had been accepted to Michigan (in-state), Cornell, Northwestern, and a few others. Cornell and NWU had estimated cost of $45,000. Michigan $21,000. After visiting Cornell, my dad decided that they would give me whatever the cost of Michigan was for four years (contributing a decent amount more than they had saved). It was just unrealistic for me to take out $20,000+ in loans per year to attend Cornell when I could attend Michigan pretty much for free.</p>

<p>After visiting Cornell, I really wanted to go there. It was the setting I wanted, the atmosphere I wanted, the prestige, all-in-all, very similar to Michigan. In the end, I have picked up about $10,000 in scholarships for my first year at Michigan. Maybe saving all this money right now and knocking my intro clases out of the way will help me to afford to be a transfer student at Cornell in the future.</p>

<p>In the meantime, I'll be making $6/hour working 30 hours a week at meijer.</p>

60

<p>Damn best of luck dsmo. My friends is also middle class (not upper) and fell into a GIANT hole for aid and had to turn down Middlebury for Wheaton (Not that it's bad...but she just LOVED Middlebury). She's excited now, but she wants to be a French Teacher so Middlebury would have been perfect <a href="except%20the%20cost%20was%20EXTREMELY%20high...especially%20for%20a%20future%20teacher">they are amazing at languages</a>. So she's hoping maybe for her masters...</p>