Freshman blues - normal??

Parents Forum
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<p>Wow... sounds a lot like me during freshman year - overwhelmed, stressed, not making friends. I lost weight, barely slept, and had chest pain from the stress. Four years later, I was nearly in tears at graduation with some of the best friends I could have ever met and knowing that I would miss college a lot.</p>

<p>It seems as if everyone has friends by week 3. It seems as if the workload is overwhelming. In most cases, it just takes some of us a little longer to adjust. I didn't start getting close to people until sophomore year. I was lucky - ended up in a suite with a few other girls who all are wonderful people (still close friends) and had similarly rough freshman years. By the first week of meeting some of them, it felt like we had known each other for years. Just took longer for me to meet the right people. I imagine that your D will be the same way. Best advice I can give is the advice I received: don't say that you don't have friends until you've met everyone on campus. I'm a natural introvert, but learned to be extroverted enough to talk to other people. I made a point to never turn down a social invite - to dinner at the dining hall, dinner out, over to a friend's friend's room for hanging out and a movie. </p>

<p>As for the academics - I was an engineer, which was rough. The workload felt easier when I socialized - soph. year, I went out every Friday and Saturday night (never drank or did that scene - but always dinner or a movie or shopping), and it made my (gulp) 100-hour weeks a lot more bearable! I was working like a dog through the week, then took my weekend nights off for fun. Lesson 1 of time management: when you are working, work! (Get off IM and the phone.) When you make time for play, then play (go out with your friends). </p>

<p>Second thing re: academics is just to realize that it's hard. She'll get better at crunching information and going through the work. A lot of what D is going through is a weed-out - does she have the drive and stamina for this? They would not have let her in the door if she didn't have the brain!</p>

<p>Give lots of hugs, send CARE packages, and assure her that there are things like summer classes to ease off the workload - and, in the words of Zeus, "Relax. It's only college."</p>

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<p>I don't believe there is a college where everyone can't find a peer group. They might not be on your dorm floor and it may take work to find soul mates, but to give up after one term would not be a hgood idea. This is life and mom and dad aren't there to facilitate everything anymore.</p>

<p>As a boarding school student, I have a hard time understanding Louie. Everyone was unfriendly and stuck up? Have you considered what your daughter's role may be in the situation?</p>

<p>Good LACs have a wide range of people just as good boarding schools do. Freshman year I really didn't relate to the kids on my floor. I made my friends doing ECs and in classes. Sophmore year we all got to live among those we chose. </p>

<p>It just seems really wrong for you to be looking into other schools and agreeing that all of these classmates are just unfriendly and are complete snobs. It can't be possible.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
I do not understand why architecture school has to push these kids "to the edge". Seems that they could learn a lot more if they weren't constantly seriously sleep deprived. Yes, she has access to the studio 24/7, and is utilizing it. ...</p>

<p>One of her major concerns all along was whether she had the creativity to study architecture - she says she's one of the ones that will have to "learn it".

[/quote]
</p>

<p>First, some male architecture professors make women feel that their projects are below average. They do this subconciously. Pointless to get mad about it. A female architect has to have the self-belief to get over it. </p>

<p>Futher, if a female student is really stroppy or daring, those same professors will question the woman's mental health. It happened to 10 of the 20 women in my class. (Not me. They were afraid I would bite back. Grrrrrrrrr). It is a tried and true method of cutting the competition. So...when they start questioning your D's mental health, she can be sure she has awakened the alpha dog in them, LOL.</p>

<p>Architecture school is the way it is because the architecture professsion is MUCH MUCH tougher. The system is bloodyminded but it works. It is good training. I loved it. If a student can't find a path of their own in architecture school, their chances of finding happiness or success in the profession are next to nil.</p>

<p>In the past, I have written about 'talent'. Talent is an unknown. You don't know if you have talent to compete until you get into architecture school. If you don't have the talent....as a woman....it may not be a worthwhile course of study--unless your D pictures herself in real estate development or a related field.</p>

<p>I was an unholy mess of a student in my first year of architecture school but I always thought I had top talent. Call it blind self belief. Top it off with a high conflict personality and a willingness to be daring and voila! A successful female architect.</p>

<p>Your D is right to evaluate her creative ability. In the end, a creative ability is a facility to destroy things, to destroy a couple of knowns in the hopes of creating an unknown. All those stories of destructive artists? All cases of a destructive tendancy gone too far.</p>

<p>Art is wildly destructive. Architecture is Art with Plumbing and Wires. There is some rationality within. At the core, though, there is a base destructiveness, a willingness to take a chance and destory known objects and concepts. My advice is to tell her to finish out the year and see if her talent develops as she gains confidence. She might look for a summer job with a female architect?</p>

<p>ps You can send me a private message if you like</p>

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<p>2girlsmom- I bet your daughter isn't the only one feeling this way about the social aspects. She just doesn't know it yet. I wish her luck.</p>

<p>I too have a freshman in architecture. While he has made friends he complains about the workload. He talks with his friends from HS who are away at other schools and they only other one who has as much work is in premed.</p>

<p>My concern is that he is already talking about transfering into Industrial Design. This coming from a student who spent 4 years in architecture
classes in high school and loved it.</p>

<p>There is some great advice in this thread but the one that stands out the most to me is having him finish out the year then make his decision of transfering into a different major. Luckily the school he is in has a top industrial design program if he does decide to go in that direction.</p>

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<p>I haven't posted here for a very long time and have anxiously hoped that someone else would make this point so I could remain in my little spot in the woodwork to where I've been exiled.</p>

<p>I'm neither a doctor nor a therapist, but I've read too many articles and seen a couple of unfortunate situations up close; thus I think the point bears making here that anti-depressants dispensed by the student health service may not be the answer for these or other students coping with the freshman (or sophomore, junior or senior) blues.</p>

<p>Anti-depressants have been known to cause psychotic, even suicidal reactions, in teens. This doesn't mean they will, just that they can. Even when well tolerated, however, if a student is taking AD's and not under the ongoing care of a psychiatrist or psychotherapist, the potential for problems is great enough to warrant concern. A common issue is that the patient will start to feel better on the AD, or will become disenchanted with it due to side effects such as weight gain, effect on libido, etc. and cease taking the medication cold turkey, which can also bring on psychotic or suicidal reactions.</p>

<p>I know that thousands, if perhaps not millions of people take AD's with no adverse effects, but the red flags have been consistently raised in research regarding teens and AD use. I would at least make an effort to research how prepared the student health service at the teen's college/university is in terms of monitoring/follow-up/longterm care of students taking anti-depressants. </p>

<p>I apologize if my comments strike anyone as alarmist. I lost a dear friend to suicide because he stopped taking an AD cold turkey that had been prescribed by a very competent and caring family practice physician, but in that setting, follow-up care and monitoring is not the same as with a therapist or psychiatrist. There are risks, and even though they may not be statistically large, they are 100% to the family members left behind in such cases.</p>

<p>I would second the suggestion made by SBMom that the students who are struggling seek out volunteer and/or spiritual organizations where they will be wholeheartedly welcomed as the first and best course of action.</p>

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<p>I can't claim that I can relate to your situations as they differ from my kids' college experiences so I don't have first hand suggestions. I can tell you that I can relate as a parent because it is very difficult for you to see your kid struggling or unhappy in a situation. </p>

<p>I think both of your daughters' situations are a tad different. </p>

<p>For 2girlsmom....an architecture student has LONG hours in the studio. This goes with that territory. She will find out if this is for her or not though she seems to enjoy the work so that is good. It is not like the hours/schedule of a liberal arts student. It sounds like your D did not have that active of a social life in HS either so this is not entirely new. Two suggestions for her.....one is that even though the workload is VERY heavy in studio, she should come up with some designated "breaks"......ex., take Friday nights off from schoolwork or something of that sort. This is a time management issue and this does not mean take it easy but build in some time away from the studio and schedule it. Second, the people she sees the most are her fellow studio-mates. I would think with the long hours side by side, that they might bond and she can reach out to them (sometimes kids must INITIATE and not WAIT for others to approach them) and ask someone she likes in the studio if they want to take a dinner break together or some late night munchie some place after they are done working. My D did an architecture six week intensive this summer and the hours were very long in the studio but she said her studio group bonded and they often took meal breaks together and they still fit in some diversions like a movie and breaks on the weekends. So, she needs to build in those breaks and she can look to the kids in studio and make suggestions for a "break activity" or even a meal with them. She needs to make that move. </p>

<p>For Louie...your daughter sounds like the social type and has just not clicked with friends at her college yet. First, I'd say forget those girls on the floor or in the dorm if they just are not friendly. They are NOT the only kids on campus! She needs to look elsewhere. A couple suggestions.....what extracurriculars did she do in high school that she loves? She needs to join one or two at college and often these groups bond whether it is a team, a play, an acapella group, a student organization, the newspaper, etc. They will have things in common and the groups form around an interest area and not necessarily are friends before joining. Is she involved in anything yet? Also, she is going to have to reach out and not wait for others to bring her into their fold. Is there a girl or boy she has met in a class that she can then ask to go to a movie or party with ? If she connects to just one person and does something with that person, she likely will meet friends that they have. She needs to find these kids outside her dorm situation as that group of kids unfortunately has not been the right group for her. I just think there has got to be kids for her on that campus. And she has to find them and not wait for them to find her. It can start with an activity or with reaching out to just ONE person she has met. </p>

<p>I think it is too early to think of transferring. Also, not that I am against transferring but just mentioning when you transfer, you step into a situation where lots of people have already made friends before you arrived so that situation is not going to go away. I also think it is too soon to really evaluate if this is the right school or not. It is still a very new situation and that is part of the issue and too hard to tell if it is the school itself. Of course if by mid year, she still does not like it there, it is ok to think about what alternatives there are. But the issue of making friends in a new place is going to exist anywhere. It seems a little bit here that she has run into a snotty group in her dorm and not the most friendly bonding type thing there but there has got to be kids still wanting to make new friends on that campus. Kids likely have found some friends already but I doubt that means they are done making new ones. She may see kids in groups and think they are all set up for good but I think she just has to find her group. And one way is through an activity. I think it is good that she is talking to a counselor and I hope she gets some encouragement of ways to handle this situation. Are there any freshman seminar or other common linked groups? These are often another way to meet some kids. Has she met kids in class? Can she reach out to someone there and go to a meal together? She may have to just really try hard to break that ice. This is not like high school where she already knew everyone. It takes some work. Unfortunately her freshman dorm is not that kind of bonded group but she can find one around a common interest area. She can also just go to a party and try to socialize. It is not easy but she might want to DO something about it. I don't know that people will just come to her. To me, the easiest one is the extracurricular activity. All the ones my kids are in are very bonded though they have friends from other things too. Just an example.....my freshman D is in an a capella group and tonight there is a sleepover of the entire 18 member group at one of the kid's apartments, even though only about five kids are new (freshmen) in the group and the idea behind the sleepover is to "bond". My other D's ski team already went camping one night this semester to bond. </p>

<p>Good luck in both situations. Perhaps you can make these suggestions but the rest is up to them.</p>

<p>Susan</p>

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<p>Thanks to Dizzymom for emphasizing my opinions in post #20 concerning antidepressant therapy. As a pharmacist who has spent some time working in a psychiatric hospital for children and teens, I want to reiterate my concerns about antidepressant use in non-adults. They are powerful drugs with many side effects and adverse reactions. They need to be closely monitored. <em>They are, IMHO, overprescribed and viewed as a panacea, when what is often needed is an empathetic ear.</em> If a child is not adjusting well to college because she can't cope, is overcome with sadness and things just can never be right for her even outside of college, I would worry that she had some chemical imbalance or clinical depression. If there was an external situation confined to campus that was causing the sadness, I would look to external remedies. SBmom's ideas were great and well worth a try! Were I in this situation and my kid's good-faith effort to find a nice social group failed, I would personally have a difficult time making her stay in this small, confined circumstance. Personally, I would encourage my kid to transfer before I would let her take antidepressants. Sometimes, it's better to admit you made a mistake than to force a round peg into a square hole.</p>

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<p>One more note on the whole health centre counseling, etc. My D1 had several friends who were put on anti-depressants their freshman year. Later, none of them are on them, they were having a bit of a hard time adjusting, not horrid, but not comfortable, once one girl in the dorm got the meds, every one wanted them. Now all those girls have a health history or anti-depressants. The meds seemed to be passed out fairly indiscriminantly. The other spooky thing is that one of the counselors seemed to try to fit them all into his rubric of a diagnosis, he was pushy (this is heresay, of course) about what might be their issue- family troubles, neglectful father, bi-polar, suicideal ideations, etc. I have heard these girls- alive, healthy, involved, successful in school- discuss how ridiculous his ideas were, yet how he pressured them to agree- well, now whatever he wrote is on their permenant medical record.</p>

<p>Who knows where that may surface in the future, what with all the computer record-keeping! Employer physicals, life/health insurance applications, etc. The questions are frequently, "have you ever been treated for" anf these kids who took 1-2 months of ADs would have to say yes, when it was really a poor diagnosis. It is likely, though, that the doctor's notes would completely back up his prescription, but they may not reflect the reality of the situation at the time. I think these girls needed to be told, "yep, it's tough to adjust, yes, classes are tougher, yes, it is a big place (public state U) and your feelings are normal, how can we help you feel more involved" rather than shuffled onto drugs.</p>

<p>JMHO ;)</p>

<p>I would caution people to be careful with the quality of care offered. I would not want just nay one messing with my kid's brain!</p>

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<p>somemom,
The same thing has happened to a friend of mine. In her 40's, she went to her general doctor with some aches and pains and probably perimenopausal symptoms. The doctor practically instisted that she take andtidepressant medication, and was miffed when she refused. He said that everybody is taking them, and in fact, just about every middle aged woman on her block actually is taking them. Highly suspicious! Sounds like the suburbia version of your dorm story! Luckily, she knew that she was tired and overworked and middle aged, rather than depressed. I wonder how many people end up taking meds they don't really need?</p>

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<p>Here's a link to read about depression and perhaps discover if sad feelings are signs of clinical depression:</p>

<p><a href="http://depressionhurts.com/index.jsp%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://depressionhurts.com/index.jsp&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

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<p>Please remember that their are significant risks to undertreating depression (not just risks to overtreating). If your son or daughter is uncomfortable with the diagnosis and/or treatment recommendations at their college counseling center of college health center, please encourage him/her to ask to see a different practitioner, even one in the same setting. Also, your s/d can ask (sign release) that clinical information be shared with you. Then an open discussion can occur regarding why the practioner recommended antidepressants.
A lot goes into a depression diagnosis, symptom severity and duration, impact on functioning, history of mood disruptions. Depression can be triggered by external events (as well as internal ones).</p>

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<p>I think to be classed as clinical depression symptoms must exhibit for 2 weeks. There are different types of depression and thus you need to determine chronic versus acute. For a clinician to make the diagnosis there are particular symptoms.....what type of depression is fairly important to assess. As to medication.....are they recommending therapy w/ medication? Is the treatment of a particular type?</p>

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<p>I would like to add that college counseling needs to be approached circumspectly. With the best of intentions, these services are often overworked and may tend to try to pigeonhole diagnoses. In our case, my D had had a traumatic expereince over the summer (violent crime). The next fall, she felt herself flashing back, anxiety-filled, and in general not coping well (she had not seen a counselor in the summer because of an overseas program which started a week after the incident). I urged her to visit the school counseling center. She went a couple times, but was dismayed because they sought to situate her feelings in her childhood, practically insisting on her coming up with some family-related stress to account for her present difficulties, rather than the actual violent incident. She felt that was counter-productive and stopped going. I was really disappointed by this approach, and I think it made healing a lot harder than it could have been.</p>

<p>This is not to say that the center may not have been helpful for others, just that they didn't seem to tailor themselves to the actual individual situation.</p>

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<p>Yes, Garland, that is what these girls were discussing...laughing about it's ridiculousness a few years after the fact.......the pigeon-holing and the quick jump from a few concerns to an auto-diagnosis which did not seem to have been true for any of them, but now it is on their records.</p>

<p>I am sure they have the best of intentions, but it's easy to forget to look at the individual and try to quickly diagnose one depressed teenager after another.</p>

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<p>While not questioning that your girls were diagnosed I am wondering how you think that a diagnosis was recorded w/o meeting the criteria? Some feedback from the interviewee is required.</p>

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<p>Hazmat, not "my" girls, but a group of senior sorority girls discussing freshman year, so, yes, this is hearsay. What I heard was that they all felt pigeon-holed very quickly, the drugs were prescribed immediately and they all stopped taking them fairly quickly with no supervision and no follow-up and, even more notable, no ongoing "depression" so I am assuming the drugs were prescribed a bit prematurely, since they are all fine now and have not taken anything in 3 years.</p>

<p>Also, in my work, I have occasion to read many people's medical records and it is amazing what is recorded there and how negatively it can come across. I see waaay too many doctors jumping to depression diagnosis and drugs when it may not be the real cause. Sometimes bad things happen and people are bummed out, it may not require drugs for those event-related issues, but it does not seem very difficult to obtain meds. Most people would be blown away by the way they are portrayed on the records- is it that they were really negative and vented to the doctor and it is recorded accurately or is it that the doctor looks at the story in the most negative light and records it in a way that they patient would not even recognise as their life and their comments? I don't know, but it's scary to read some of these and hear the patients very different description of the events.</p>

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<p>Thank you all for your support and suggestions - these are all great ideas as to ways for her to reach out to others. </p>

<p>I appreciate those who have shared their experiences with architecture school, and I think you're right - she will figure out pretty quickly if this is the route she wants to go. </p>

<p>Thanks again...</p>

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<p>Thanks so much for all the thoughtful responses. I actually printed out the thread (all 13 pages when printed!) for D to take back to college today. The thread reads nearly verbatim like the discussions my husband and I have been having both in our heads and together for weeks.</p>

<p>We have come to the conclusion that we will facilitate the transfer process with some conditions: first, that she continue with at least 2 ECs; second, that she take part in whatever group counseling session she is referred to; and third, that she dig in where she is as though her transfer won't go through. We think that even if she decides to leave in the end, she will at least have practiced the skills that will be necessary to dig in at the new college.</p>

<p>It occurred to me today that I have observed with all three of my kids that there is a downside to insisting on sticking things out when they lose interest. THey become reluctant to try new things because they think they will be held to a hard line even if it were only a "trying on a new hat" situation. We have had many discussions about how adults are trusted to know when to cut their losses and move on, whether in a new job, new relationship, or new location, and realize that sometimes kids need to be allowed to make the same judgments. </p>

<p>However, after taking this decision we will probably never know might have happened had we taken a more militaristic stance. (Sigh...) But really (we rationalize), it's no skin off our noses if she transfers to a school that is less expensive, closer to home, and a top public LAC with great opportunities.</p>

<p>As to the question of medication, we told her that the best way to convince the counseling office to back off is to take steps to appear as though she is NOT isolated and depressed, which feeds back into the "get involved" loop. If she can't pull it off, is unable to take the baby steps, then she must accept that they may be onto something.</p>

<p>Again, thanks for all the great posts. We'll check back in when we have further news (we hope good news!) to report.</p>

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<p>Good luck to your daughter, louie. She sounds like she has a good head on her shoulders and a wonderful, supportive family. I'm sure she'll be successful whether things turn around at her current college or she moves on to another place.</p>

<p>Remember, as an outpatient you never have to accept medication against your will. I still think that an evaluation from someone outside of the school would be a good idea, as the counseling department probably doesn't want to acknowledge that some flaw in the school may be at the crux of the problem.</p>

<p>Your comment on forcing kids to "stick things out" brought back an ugly memory for me. When my son was 11 or 12, he played baseball on a team with a brutal, mean, vulgar coach. He cried and developed physical illness when a game approached. He wanted to quit. Against my better judgement, I acquiesced to my husband's opinion that he should stick it out and honor his committment to the team. Finally, during a game played in a downpour (neither coach would be "weak" and call the game) our coach actually made an agressive move toward a teenage umpire, chasing him into the outfield. That was it. I took my son from the field in the middle of the game, and my hubby finally agreed. Sometimes you just have to save yourself. In retrospect, I feel that making our son stay was abusive and no good lessons were learned from the miserable situation. Anyway, I digress....</p>

<p>I wish you the best, and please let us know how things work out for you!</p>

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<p>I see that there are very two serious threads here but I would like to second the responses, particularly of the female architect, that talk about the intensity of architecture school. It's real, as is the sexism, sexual harrassment, and overall egomania described above. I returned to college as an adult to pursue my architecture degree and was then extremely disciplined, professionally focused and able to let a lot roll off my back. But at 18 I wanted to go away to college, study absolutely everything, make friends, and experience my new independence in all those ways that we Sixties era folks did.
What I am leading up to is the option for your daughter to move into a liberal arts program for her BA/BS and then go for a MArch instead of a BArch. Perhaps the architects in this listserv would disagree, but I know so many accomplished professionals who took their first professional degrees this way. I'm not saying she should rush to 'give up' --- but IMHO it is an option that gives 18 to 21 year olds a chance to enjoy life a bit and in fact receive the broad and rich LA education that can only serve to enhance their practices and their lives down the road.</p>