<p>
[quote]
will professor recommendations be needed? He may drop a class, leaving him a class short of a full load -will this be held against him? (He's doing well in the others and should have very good recommendations from those profs.) does the dean need to say more than that he is a student in good standing? He's not been that involved in extracurricular activities except the lit magazine --this college has not been conducive for him in that way. In other words, it may not be exactly the stellar record he had from high school.
[/quote]
cozineave, if he decides to go to the school where he was accepted last year and to go there for spring term, none of the above may come into play. In calling the admissions office, your S can determine whether they will want a formal application or just accept him based on his freshman app.</p>
<p>If he does end up doing a "normal" transfer app, I can answer re the typical process.<br>
Most schools want 1-2 prof recs; not necessary to have one from every class.<br>
Being a class short of a full load may be a factor or may not; would probably depend on the reasons. Since he is thinking of going "down" a notch in selectivity, these kinds of issues may not be as critical as if he were reaching up in selectivity.
The purpose of the Dean rec is really as a sign-off that he is a student in good standing and not on the list of "regular trouble-makers" that populate the life of a Dean of Students. It is pro-forma except for those trouble-making kids.
Some transfer applicants stress about ECs and think strong ECs are important in selective transfer admissions. I only know that my S had very successful transfer apps (tho not 100% success) with nothing noteworthy at all wrt college ECs.</p>
<p>I actually agree with many of the points that interesteddad has made. I certainly agree that the 15 schools he named are filled with students who had to have been primarily intellectually focused prior to admission, or they would not have been accepted. Therefore, as he said, these may be adjustment and "new-found freedom" issues, or, as was later mentioned, the (bad) luck of the draw. This is why it can be really helpful to make that transition year the substance-free year, in terms of dorm choice, if the college has that option.
I would think that issues like drunkenness, drugs, & intensity of social scene are much less easy to skirt in an LAC than in a (larger) U; thus, sub-free is a great way to go-- if offered-- at any LAC. (That is in case this student is transferring from one LAC to another.) That's also another way of saying that precautions should be taken when transferring, lest a similar situation arise.</p>
<p>I also agree with trying to remedy the situation at the current college if this has not yet been attempted -- laying some of the responsibility for this squarely in the hands of administration, and particularly if there is <em>not</em> a sub-free option, or those spots are limited.</p>
<p>D#1 chose sub-free for freshman year. Second year she's staying with some of those roommates in a different dorm, & can trust them: thus sub-free for year 2, she feels, will not be as critical, as "adjustment" acting-out will not be a major unknown.</p>
<p>I think above posts contain a lot of wisdom gained through experience. I know a friend's D is a senior at one of the schools on "the list" and had a very hard time the whole first year because she had trouble finding non-drinking friends. She stuck it out there because she figured other places would be even worse (probably true) and has plenty of comfortable friends now and is VERY happy at her school, but it was a tough adjustment.</p>
<p>I would suggest students get involved in some ECs. These LACs all have great-sounding clubs for kids who want to watch goofy movies together, play board games, etc. That's imo a quicker way to find some like-minded friends than who your dorm-mates happen to be or who you meet through classes or at parties. jmho, Doesn't have to be a big time-consumer, just a low-key way to get to know other students in a sober condition. Lots of college students feel uncomfortable at parties without a drink or two (sad, but true), but most could play a Simpson's trivia game substance-free.</p>
<p>The OP wrote...
"I tend to agree that this was just the wrong decision for him --too many drugs, off-the-charts intensity of social scene, etc. The other school is lower key and known for a mellower social scene and in general is less of a hothouse environment. I feel my son is correct in his assessment that the LAC is a poor fit for him and I do not see the benefit of sticking it out in this particular case. My son is not going to change and neither is the culture of the school."</p>
<p>From that paragraph....</p>
<p>"off-the-charts intensity of social scene,"</p>
<p>There are good schools without "off-the-charts intensity of social scene". Believe it or not, there are fantastic students that don't want the intensity.
I know people that have gone to top ten places and hated them for this reason.</p>
<p>A school that is made up of very intelligent students doesn't always make for a great social scene. If you go to a school where everybody is a valedictorian or a leader, you may end up at a school with students that are very into themselves.</p>
<p>So to the OP, you have already stated that what your son is saying makes sense and you understand his thinking. If your kid wants out... SUPPORT your kid. He does not have to stick it out.</p>
<p>Your son should contact the school where he wants to transfer. I bet it works out.</p>
<p>FWIW, that's what I was thinking.
It's terrible in life when you're in a poor-fit situation and you can't get out. But when you're paying, you can get out. Why suffer through it when there's a choice. We've unfortunately had to change our kid's schools a few times over the years and each change has been beneficial. If you're kid is miserable there, having a poor social experience, and there's reason to hope that a change in environment might be better, then I would personally not discourage this. The college years are fleeting.</p>
<p>Just to be clear: I am not suggesting the OP's son isn't truly in a bad-fit school and shouldn't transfer.</p>
<p>I am simply suggesting that these kinds of "I hate it, here" stories are very, very common from first year students having adjustment problems two months into the college experience -- and often the issues really aren't rooted in the college itself, but the college experience, period.</p>
<p>One of the reasons I would push for the student to use the school's resources (Deans, Counselling Center) is that the pros see these adjustment issues year after year after year. They have the experience, in many cases, to cut thru the clutter and find out what is really going on. For example, were mid-term exams particularly stressful? Mom and Dad might not necessarily hear that part of the story.</p>
<p>What is there to lose? The standard course of action in a bad-fit would be a transfer at the start of sophmore year. Making the decision to transfer after two months as a freshman is a relatively extreme course of action, taken without any real opportunity to get over the very common adjustment hurdles. </p>
<p>The most "extreme" issues at any of the top LACs would be some instances of hard-core drinking and partying in freshman dorms. Even if my son or daughter chose to attend a party school and got the worst luck of the draw, I would not be automatically supportive of a decision to transfer after 8 weeks. Half the kids who are miserable in October end up loving their schools by the time April rolls around. The transistion to college is a hard one for many students.</p>
<p>Transferring is ok, of course. My S just did it and I did it back in the day. But interesteddad has made some excellent points. I support the notion of transferring if it is clear the school isn't a fit; but I also said way back in this thread that it's best to think of the long term and not of the quick move, unless that is <em>clearly</em> necessary.</p>
<p>Transferring is a big adjustment. Harder in some ways than the freshman adjustment. If what you have here is an adjustment problem, or a circumstantial problem which can be solved (wrong housing/roommates/floormates, for example), those problems can easily recur, or even be compounded, with a transfer. </p>
<p>I think it is a rare case which calls for a mid-year transfer. The OP's son may be one. But usually one can take the time to apply for sophomore transfer, giving time also to see whether the problems at the current school are of the "this too shall pass" or we-can-fix-this variety.</p>
<p>Jmmom, sometimes we just have to read what somebody says and not put our own baggage in our interpretation.</p>
<p>Post no.1 is very clear to me.</p>
<p>From that post...</p>
<p>"I feel my son is correct in his assessment that the LAC is a poor fit for him and I do not see the benefit of sticking it out in this particular case. My son is not going to change and neither is the culture of the school."</p>
<p>I don't remember the OP asking for reasons for her son to stick to a school that is a poor choice for her kid and where she agrees with "his assessment".</p>
<p>I also like this comment from the first post.</p>
<p>"--only the livabiliy of the college experience counts."</p>
<p>Some schools have Nov 1 deadlines so time might not be on the OP's son's side.</p>
<p>well, yes and no, dstark. Sometimes my thoughts are very clear. Then someone chimes in with a viewpoint I hadn't considered. The OP came back to say this
[quote]
interested dad could be right --and maybe it is just a quirk of the dorm he landed in. ...My questions are just exploratory. I did think this school was somewhat mellow up front, and that appeared to be a positive. His particular dorm is somewhat extreme --it could be the luck of the draw... This one group of kids...and he happened to land there.
[/quote]
I'm in total support of a move whenever the OPson wants it, and I said so up in one of my earliest posts. But I would hate for him to make a second poor choice through failure to consider what the transfer adjustment could be like, whether the culture will truly be different. So I think it's a good idea when posters respectfully point out other aspects.</p>
<p>This thread has been nicely devoid, I think, of posters denigrating the OPs original plan. But nicely full of other perspectives and possibilities she may want to consider.</p>
<p>Well, dstark (my friend), not to hijack this thread into a tete-a-tete, but I think it can be helpful to the general discussion. Your point re the quote in post #21 is well-taken; it certainly indicates someone well in the throes of the transfer process, rather than thinking about <em>whether</em> to transfer. But, believe me I can tell you, a student and family can be in both camps:</p>
<p>My S <em>had to</em> transfer, as Tulane was eliminating his major. You could easily and often find me on this board weeping and gnashing my teeth over aspects of the transfer process. We were deep into it. Still, my S considered staying at Tulane well into the process. He threw me for a loop considering it long after several of the acceptances were in, including for a short while after one of his top choices came in as a Yes.</p>
<p>Every situation is different and my son's was quite different from the OPs as my S did not feel alienated from his school. I just make the point that things can evolve, perspectives can change, thoughts and concerns about what it would be like to transfer can crop up. I don't know where the OP and son stand in their thinking at this moment. I still think interesteddad provided important food for thought about how to address the strong dissatisfaction with the current school - the most important ,imho, being that it might be a "micro culture" at his school, which could be corrected or, worse, could be the same "micro culture" he might find at a transfer school.</p>
<p>Or, it might not have anything to do with a "culture" or a "microculture".</p>
<p>The most celebrated freshman transfer out of my daughter's class came as the result of an ugly love triangle. Freshman girl starts "dating" junior RA. Junior RA's girlfriend finds out and all three of them start fighting like spurned lovers in a teen angst movie. Freshman transfers, leaving a wake of diatribes about how awful the school is and how the academics weren't up to snuff and how everyone was mean, when the underlying reasons for wanting to get away had nothing to do with the school per se. Lord only knows what story the girl's parents got when the subject of an expedited transfer first came up! I doubt very much that it started with, "Uhhh, I was sleeping with this guy and his girlfriend found out and...." </p>
<p>Even in that case, she stuck it out for the year and transfered for sophmore year. The Deans removed the RA, moved her to a different dorm (a single, I think), and, presumably assisted her with the transfer.</p>
<p>I'm not suggesting anything like that. But, as a parent, my antenna would go up if things were so bad that a second semester of freshman year was out of the question before going through the transfer process. I'd want some seasoned pros on campus (deans, counselors, whatever the case may be) to take a gander and give a listen, especially given the high-rate of freshman adjustment issues that often hit like a ton of bricks around October midterms. My antenna would go up out of concern for my kid. A transfer to another school, which is almost certain to be fundamentally similar, may or may not address the real issues.</p>
<p>I'll never forget the deans during parents orientation describing how parents often get dumped on by their kids about college problems and how important it is to keep a sense of perspective -- especially when none of the colleges it could be are even mild "outliers" from the universe of elite college norms. </p>
<hr>
<p>BTW, on an unrelated note: I am so happy that things worked out for your son. What an ordeal your family has been through with three colleges in two years thanks to Katrina. You must be very proud of your son for rolling with the punches.</p>
<p>
[quote]
hmmm, I don't know,...sometimes you just know that something isn't right....
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</p>
<p>Yes. The problem is that probably half the freshmen in America "know that something isn't right" in October. Most them end up liking their college by the time freshman year is over.</p>
<p>That's the tricky part for parents in this situation: is the college really wrong? Or is it a perfectly normal (and widespread) adjustment issue?</p>
<p>That's why I would probably recommend:</p>
<p>a) probing a little deeper</p>
<p>b) a commitment to support a sophmore year transfer </p>
<p>c) IF things don't turn around after some efforts to use the resources at the college have been made.</p>
<p>Make the deans earn their money by diving in and finding out if the problem is big or much ado about nothing? Can it be resolved? Or is it insurmountable.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I'll never forget the deans during parents orientation describing how parents often get dumped on by their kids about college problems and how important it is to keep a sense of perspective
[/quote]
I can't tell you how often I have heard, here on cc as well as IRL, the following scenario: DD calls home in tears over a crisis at school. Everything is wrong, nothing is right. Details of why things will never work out.... Parent loses sleep that night, the next and the next, worrying and trying to come up with ideas to solve the problems and how to present those ideas so they kid will actually "hear" them. Triumphant with the confidence of having just the right ideas and words, parent calls DD to share and is greeted with "Uhhh, what? Oh, that. I forgot all about it."</p>
<p>and, thank you, interesteddad, for the thought. There have been some tough times, but he has handled it all and we are quite proud.</p>
<p>As a bystander to several long-running teen sagas, many of which involved serial transfers (like a serial killer, just at some point mom and dad run out of money....) I'd take Interestdad's advice to heart if I were the OP.</p>
<p>Sometimes it's just a bad fit and you have to cut your losses.</p>
<p>Sometimes kids, especially all-star, high performing ones who end up in top LAC's, hit some bumps in the road which they didn't have to deal with in HS. Because they're living far away, and have to contend with academics plus doing laundry plus remembering to go to sleep, plus balancing a checkbook, plus new friends or the lack thereof, it's easy to decide that whatever angst is going on is a result of a bad fit.</p>
<p>Sometimes the problem can be solved with a transfer. Sometimes (and I know several! including a cousin who is finally finishing a BA at the age of 30 and I've lost count of how many colleges she's been enrolled in) the best advice a parent can give is for the kid to reach out for some adult help (Dean of Students, Dean of Housing, Counselor); get busy with some non-academics which are likely to have like -minded kids involved with them (Adopt a Grandparent; Performing arts groups which entertain at Homeless shelters;political debate, whatever....) and hold off on a decision until finals are over.</p>
<p>My poor cousin started her drama by dropping out of Hampshire college because "the kids are too pre-professional" which is hilarious to anyone who knows Hampshire. I think a sympathetic dean or two could have helped her sort through her difficulty finding a peer group, which would have saved a lot of time, money, stress, etc.</p>
<p>There are drugs and drinking everywhere; there are kids involved in other things everywhere. The trick is to find one's people before a freshman starts to feel the clock ticking...</p>
<p>If I were the OP this is the concern I would have. It sounds like they have talked through the situation pretty thoroughly with their child and believe this school is not a good fit ... and that a transfer makes sence ... Ok, fair enough. What I would like to understand better is what specifically about the alternative schools is different that the outcome after a transfer is likely to be different. There are schools on the top 15 LAC list that are more preppy than others, more isolated, have more drinking, etc ... but, none seem as extreme as the description given. The fit to the school certainly seems to be an issue ... but is a small LAC itself an issue, an isolated location, or perhaps even living away from home at this time. We have a rather limited description of situation but I if I were the parent I would like to understand what would be different at the transfer school and be confident it will lead to a different outcome. Good luck working through this!</p>