<p>Have any of you looked up freshmen retention and graduation rates and universities?
Many of these are really sad, since despite how great a school's programs may be, oftentimes students find the wrong fit!</p>
<p>Um, can you point out which ones are particularly "sad"? It seems the top 25 all have pretty good rates (except maybe the publics).</p>
<p>Graduation rates are related to the academic ability/motivation of the student body (e.g. SATs). Everything the college does for the students (e.g. quality of teaching, student life, etc) probably makes no more than a 10-15% difference in the graduation rate. Most students who fail to graduate do so because of bad grades, not bad fit. </p>
<p>I agree with you. The graduation rates range from about 95% in the Ivies to about 35% in some of the fourth tier schools. It is too bad when someone falls short of their goals. I hate to see people fall short of their potential. It is sad.</p>
<p>There can be many reasons why a graduation rate might be low:[ul][<em>]Some students find out that they simply cannot afford a 4-year education, and either transfer or drop out.
[</em>]Some students are not academically prepared.
[<em>]Others, especially African American and Lation students, may experience culture shock and transfer to a school that is they feel more "sensitive" to their particular needs.
[</em>]Others are not mature enough (too many parties) to handle college life.[/ul]People talk about retention/graduation rates a lot, but I never see any kind of analysis as to the reasons why students fail to graduate.</p>
<p>I agree with collegehelp. Don't think too much about those graduation rates. Whether a school graduates 95% of its students or 85% of its students doesn't really say much about the university. Obviously, there is a big difference once a school graduates fewer than 70% of its students, but a 10% difference is hardly a reason for concern.</p>
<p>Here is a copy of something I posted before. It is a theory or model of student success...a sort of thoughtful analysis:</p>
<p>"There is a book called "Increasing Student Retention" by Noel, Levitz, and Siluri. It discusses a "force-field" model of student sucess. There are both positive and negative forces coming from within a student. There are positive and negative forces coming from outside the student. If the net effect of all these forces is positive, then the student leaps over the hurdles and graduates.</p>
<p>The hurdles are:
institutional beaureaucratic procedures
about 40-60 courses of study
about 25000-40000 pages of reading
about 100-200 exams
library research and written assignments
laboratories and other assignments</p>
<p>then the student can graduate.</p>
<p>But, there all these interacting forces at work that advance or retard progress.</p>
<p>positive external forces:
parents
peers/friends
cultural values
benefits of attending college
exposure to college-educated persons
teachers
counselors
college opportunities
financial aid</p>
<p>negative external forces:
lack of money
housing/roommate problems
transportation problems
work demands and conflicts
social demands
discrimination
rejection
family obligations</p>
<p>internal positive forces:
academic skills
achievement motivation
personal interests
career aspirations
enjoyment of learning
self-confidence
college-oriented values
identification with college-educated persons</p>
<p>negative internal forces:
procrastination
lonliness
not asserting needs and problems
self doubt
fears of failure
fears of success
fears of rejection
value conflicts
career indecision
boredom"</p>
<p>I asked simply to start a bit of a discussion on it.
There have been analyses done it such as the one collegehelp pointed to--which was also one of the ones we looked at during part of my training for a student leadership position I held.</p>
<p>When we talked about the 10% of our freshmen who do not return after their first year here, money was probably number one, but there were a couple of campus departments that were mentioned as possibly contributing to the problem. Is this something that could be fixed?
Obviously not all problems are a university's fault, but I certainly think that a percentage showing students' chances of continuing may reflect things beyond what you see on a campus tour!
How do you think various approaches to education at various colleges might play into retention?
Does it matter whether a university teaches via a survival of the fittest (weed out the "weak ones"), a deficit-based remediation (focus on the weaknesses and fix them first), or a strengths-based development/application (focus on the students strengths and interests first)? (Or would something I've not seen work best?)</p>
<p>The formula for high retention is a brilliant, inspired student body and a brilliant, inspired faculty and a beautiful campus in a warm climate located between a major cultural center and the beach.</p>
<p>I think kids who drop out tend to put a positive spin on things and mention factors like money, although in some cases it is true. They aren't going to tell you that they hated to study.</p>
<p>You could probably increase retention by lowering academic standards but word would get out that your college provides an inferior education.</p>
<p>Colleges are very much locked into a niche in a complex higher ed "ecosystem" or "marketplace" with a certain caliber of student, faculty, and college experience. Regarding bad departments, sometimes curriculum changescan help. Bad faculty eventually retire but it is hard to fire faculty. Faculty resist interference with their teaching style but many would benefit from "teacher training". </p>
<p>These things moreless dictate retention and graduation rates. You could spend millions of dollars on special programs with negligible results. Or, you could use the money to increase financial aid with probably better results.</p>
<p>How does a college inspire its faculty? Many of them are tired, underpaid, frustrated with the administration. How do you light a fire in their hearts for teaching when their students are mostly apathetic, mildly depressed, stressed out, and overwhelmed? You can't medicate everybody. </p>
<p>I think it would take decades for strong and wise leadership to really turn things around. It has been done at SUNY Geneseo and Washington U St Louis for example. But, most educational administrators lack understanding of where the spark of inspiration comes from. They only know how to throw money away.</p>