<p>Any way the high school gc can get involved here? At our school, we had an initial meeting with the gc at which it was emphasized that parents should do more listenening than talking when it comes to choosing colleges to apply to.</p>
<p>Also...shouldn't the student have a selection of "safes" and "probables" in addition to HYP which are all "reaches" for everyone. Our GC (at a highly-competetive high school) tells even the 4.2 GPA and 2390 SAT kids that HYP are "reaches", especially this and next year for obvious reasons.</p>
<p>Before I trash the parents.. what schools did they attend? Could it be dad or mom works in a field where they see an ivy ed as the best ticket? Do they feel shortchanged by their college and want the "best" for the kid...</p>
<p>You don't have to be mean and cruel to do mean and cruel things, sometimes all it takes is too much love and desire for a better life for your kids....</p>
<p>If your friend really wants to go elsewhere is he prepared to go on his own nickle? If so, then there are no worries... if he is expecting mom and dad to foot the bill, even it it is far less than an ivy, he isn't being relistic. Anything a parent does for college should be considered gravy as they owe nothing after 18. After 18 it is a gift, not a requirement of law. </p>
<p>I have absolutely no passion towards the ivies in anyway. I don't see the big deal, but I'm not his parent. However, the folks may want the best for him and to them, the ivies are the best.... </p>
<p>I would try and understand their reasons. I don't agree with their views, but I understand why they would have them.</p>
<p>I have empathy for the OP's friend. When I was applying to colleges, my folks were steering me toward elite woman's colleges. The thought of spending the next four years at a woman's college, elite or not, just about made me want to puke. Really, it was that upsetting. I got into a little bit of trouble my senior year of high school, and that did it. It was basically, "you're going to a woman's college." My life was a living hell. I had nothing to look forward to. It was such a period of misery and angst- 4 years is a long time when you're 17. Happy outcome- I ended up at UNC. Parents saw the light. I was happy and did well. I hope the OP's friend has the same outcome.</p>
<p>I do hope the parents can find a more flexible attitude and it is worth working toward. Obviously the student needs a broader list than HYP in any case. Some people are immovable on this though. I don't see it here on the parents forum except where a very specific career goal is anticipated. But I've seen it in real life and it can be very hurtful to kids. It's not the fault of any school or group of schools--it's more a mindset of, "You have to be perfect" or "Nothing can ever be good enough"--the top colleges are just symbolic of that issue. But sometimes other respected adults, including friends, teachers or GCs, can make an impact. It's worth a try.</p>
<p>I would not trash an Ivy, seeing that my S is at one. But Ivies are just not for everybody. S1 did not want to be at one--for his own very good reasons. I would defy anyone to claim that Chicago, to pick a university, or Swarthmore, to pick a LAC, deliver an inferior education to any of the Ivies. But they are quite different in their own way from HYP, and they suit different students better than others. That, for the parents, should be the chief concern.</p>
<p>"I have absolutely no passion towards the ivies in anyway. I don't see the big deal, but I'm not his parent. However, the folks may want the best for him and to them, the ivies are the best.... "</p>
<p>marite? that is trashing the ivies? because I have no passion for them? :) please, do you need to sit down? I think my indifference towards them is far from trashing. I love the west and wouldn't want to live anywhere else.. An ivy education is not enough to make me want to leave the northwest.. sorry.</p>
<p>Opie. You misread my post entirely. I expressed myself badly, I admit. I was a bit too defensive about arguing against Ivies for that particular student.
What I tried to say is that no school, however excellent or prestigious is a good fit for everyone, even for the most highly qualified student. So the parents really need to attend to their child's best interests rather than live vicariously through him.<br>
I disagree with you, though, about parents not owing their kid a nickel after 18. Legally, no. But morally? That's another issue entirely. There's nothing magic about 18 (or 21 for that matter).</p>
<p>One thing I guess I didn't expain about my friend is that he is the most modest and down to earth person you will ever meet. He is so reluctant to share his test scores or grades with anyone else because he doesn't particularly like being singled out as being the smartest among our group. He took a few visits to most of the Ivies and said that he just can't see himself among people that he thought were too pretentious and arrogant. Obviously, he is putting somewhat of a stereotype on some great schools, but this is his opinion and I can't do much to change it. I tell him that even the schools that are just under Ivy level will have the exact same atmosphere. I'm doing my best to get him to stop generalizing and at least giving them a chance, because I know he will do great no matter where he goes. </p>
<p>I went with him to visit Brown so i was there to put a positive spin when he was pointing out reasons he doesn't think he would like it there. I think he will end up applying to Brown, and probably Princeton, another school I accompanied him to. I think this may just be his way of rebelling against his parents for dictating his entire life up to this point. I told him what some parents said about presenting the schools he truly likes as safeties to his parents so that he can at least get applications out to them. He will have months to find a way to tell his parents that these safeties may actually be his top choices.</p>
<p>Morals really are in the eye of beholder.. while I agree with you, I don't necessarily look down upon a parent decision one way or another. Some of us put ourselves through college. It can be done.. </p>
<p>My point is simply if you want something bad enough, you should be willing to "go it alone", if that's what it takes... While this can be tough, it can also be empowering for an individual. </p>
<p>"What I tried to say is that no school, however excellent or prestigious is a good fit for everyone, even for the most highly qualified student"</p>
<p>More or less, then you are in agreement with me..</p>
<blockquote>
<p>Morals really are in the eye of beholder.>></p>
</blockquote>
<br>
<p>Moral relativism? Not for me.</p>
<p>It sounds like the parents are willing to fork for HYP but would have a fit if their kid wanted the state U--which might be an excellent school as well as much cheaper.</p>
<p>I wonder if this kid, who has been so pressured, just doesn't want to go somewhere highly competitive? Obviously the parents should let him pick what he thinks is the best fit. My son and I have the opposite problem, when we visited Harvard, I didn't like it much, he did. I would be content with the state school close to home that will give him a free ride merit scholarship, but because he wants to explore other options, I am helping him as best I can through the application process. I think ultimately he is the best judge of where he will be happy and that to me is the most important choice in choosing a school.</p>
<p>"It sounds like the parents are willing to fork for HYP but would have a fit if their kid wanted the state U--which might be an excellent school as well as much cheaper"</p>
<p>but the problem I have with this is we really don't know the reason for the pressure... is it because it's fashionable? they're alumni? or they feel it is the best opportunity for their kid? </p>
<p>I honestly don't know if they are being mean, fashionable or caring for their child... </p>
<p>I think the kid really needs to sit down and ask "mom and dad, why do you feel this way?"</p>
<p>They actually might be the best parents with the best intent. Sometimes things aren't what they appear.</p>
<p>"I think ultimately he is the best judge of where he will be happy and that to me is the most important choice in choosing a school."</p>
<p>agreed, </p>
<p>Here's the point I made to my kids when choosing. I said" I don't care where you go, you go where you like, BUT.. remember it's a four year commitment. You can't come back after a few weeks and ask for a do over." No mulligans. think it through now, rather than after you're there.</p>
<p>I don't think they're mean. They are very likely misguided. And possibly engaging in a form of blackmail. We've read about such parents on CC before. "We'll only pay for applications to HYP." A young woman posted, several years ago, that her parents would only let her apply to Yale.
It may be that the OP's friend would actually like being at HYP once there. And it may be not. I'm glad, knowing S1, that he did not succumb to the hype and went to a LAC. It was right for him (and not right for his brother).</p>
<p>Back in the day this debate raged in my hometown but with the sides lining up very differently. I've posted before about the top kid in my HS who turned down a full ride (although they weren't called that back then) to one of the "Seven Sisters" to attend a commuter school close to home. Her parents had never heard of the school she'd been admitted to; couldn't imagine living in a dorm when she had a perfectly nice bedroom at home; didn't understand why she'd have to go out of state when there was a perfectly good college just downtown accessible by public transportation and if she had to study late at the library (which I think closed at 8 pm) her dad could pick her up at the train station. The GC went to bat for her; the parents were unmoveable on this issue and were even annoyed that the school had encouraged her to apply somewhere "so elitist and fancy".</p>
<p>I think of her every time posters bash the parents who encourage their kids to reach for more. Maybe the parents are hideous prestige hounds; maybe they are cruel and conniving and only care about status; maybe they are loving people who once upon a time were not encouraged to reach for the stars and who therefore want their child to expand his horizons. Who knows. I know that my friend has had a satisfying career as an elementary school teacher and god knows we need more talented people doing that; some of her classmates are judges and cancer researchers and diplomats and one is even running for president; who knows which is better or worse. What is clear to me is that for every kid whose parents push there are probably dozens or hundreds of kids whose parents can't fathom leaving home at 18; don't know why you'd want a fancy private college when most of your classmates are going to State U or a local CC; who would rather put a pool in the backyard then spend money on tuition. </p>
<p>To the OP-- aren't family dynamics fun? Your friend is lucky to have a supportive person like you around.</p>