“Talk to the Honors English teacher and ask his advice on shifting downward on English. Encourage him to continue to do in-class essays vs out of class. He does this sometimes, but I would love it if he would do it even more. After all, isn’t the key to writing as an adult being able to be fast and effective?”
Actually, I’d argue that college is often all about research papers and they are quite lengthy and require skills not learned in doing in-class essays. College is much more about out of classroom work than high school.
I’d also encourage your daughter to try to advocate for herself on some of the items you’ve outlined.
^^^What @skieurope says. Kids who are on the fast track in academics and sports must squeeze every minute out of every day. But it must be their choice. My DD did three varsity sports, APs, and was lucky to get 5-6 hours of sleep. She studied on the bus to meets/games, studied between races, at lunch, etc. Yes, it was a sacrifice, but she found time to enjoy an active social life, and a myriad of activities at her Ivy-- and felt it was worth it.
The discipline of delayed gratification serves Ivy-level students well, as the workloads just grow in college.
P.S. Don’t forget that x-c is over in a couple of weeks, so the time commitment drops to zero, except for the Varsity stars who are in the county/regional tourneys (at least in our HS). Sure, she should continue to workout on her own, but that is ~40 minutes of running for stress release, and not everyday.
Can she take PE through an on-line class? My D didn’t have room in her schedule for a required PE class due to doubling up on languages and music, and the on-line PE class was the way she made that work. It was jogging/running (don’t laugh!) – and actually more substantive than it sounds. The on-line units and quizzes were on things like choosing footwear and athletic gear, heart rates, and so on, and she had to do a timed mile run at the start and at the end (observed by someone official) and keep a log of her running. She liked to run (and ran XC) but that didn’t give her enough PE credit at her school. Her on-line course was through BYU.
It sounds like your daughter enjoys her classes, and that it is primarily the track/XC that is causing the time crunch. I’d first start by seeing if you can adjust that.
I think the OP indicated her daughter needs the XC running as a stress release. It can be essential for a student spending so many hours sitting in class or studying to have an hour or two of intense physical exertion- and studies have shown athletes’ brains are actually stimulated by the physical demands so better academic achievement is possible.
During these critical years, teens might have to curtail family obligations in a sensitive way-- attend grandma’s birthday dinner, but excuse herself after the meal and retreat to a back room to work on assignments.
The posters who brought up screen time are so right–at this level of preparation, texting, facebook, snapchat and instagramming need to be severely limited.
" In my kid’s school, the department decides who can get into which level of course, based on prior years’ performance." But it sounds like the OP’s daughter’s performance has been fine. She’s just not happy with the effort required. Many kids who opt for all honors/AP classes are likely to be doing 3-4 hours of homework per night if they want to keep their grades up.
“They also limit 9th graders to 5 academic courses max, and the rest to 6 academic courses max. That way, no kid becomes over-committed relative to their academic abilities.” I think this is a decision that should be made by families not by schools. The OP’s daughter can lighten her load in several ways, if she chooses to. But I don’t think it’s appropriate for schools to limit kids’ options. She may not like working 3-4 hours per night but she may prefer that to her other options. These choices are always going to be there in life–shoot for the partnership or choose the “mommy track”? We all have to decide what we can handle and what’s most important to us.
Some have mentioned taking honors instead of AP. Not sure what the OP’s school is like but our school doesn’t generally offer that. It’s honors/AP or regular. If there is a level in between, that might be a more attractive option.
This sentence befuddles me. It appears that an “extremely non-demanding” course is exactly what she needs in her schedule right now. If she’s spending massive amounts of time on Honors English assignments–not even the highest level English she could be taking–it sounds like this really isn’t her area and dropping down is quite appropriate. My D was not a science person, so despite taking all honors and AP classes in other subjects, she took regular physics, barely had anything to do in the class, got an easy A, and life went on just fine.
And if taking regular PE is boring/annoying, well so what? As a parent, you get to decide what’s best for your kid, and if participation in a sport makes life too crazy, particularly when she isn’t even strong in the sport, then you put your foot down. A little boredom never killed anyone, but it sounds like this schedule is hurting the whole family.
I think the solutions are right in front of you–you just have to take the reins.
I would drop the running rather than the English. I still think that being in a boring PE class with kids she doesn’t care for is nothing compared to being in a boring English class with kids she doesn’t care for.
I want to point out that if you complain to school administrators or the teacher your A-/B+ child is “suffering” or needs to move down a level, you may not find any sympathy or even understanding. Your child obviously is capable of handling the workload, just maybe not at the level you wish (A+ level?). If you and/or your child are unsatisfied with her performance, then adjust her schedule, time management somehow; I would not go to the teachers and suggest they make changes to their workload or assignments or use of class time. I found that high school was the time when children have to start prioritizing their interests and goals. That meant dropping long-time activities, adjusting expectations or shifting focus because they (and the parents) seldom could do everything well.
OP, did you not saying participating in cross country was in actuality her PE requirement instead of taking the regular PE class? Would leaving early or missing meets or practices not count as absences. Also, I’d be careful asking a teacher to cut back on the “busy” work. That may not be viewed in the best light , and may come back to negatively effect your daughter.
I’m trying to determine, is the kid really unhappy? Or is this more the parents’ unhappiness?
Also… a suggestion was made above to ask the coach if the kid can skip some meets. I am going to say that I have found athletic coaches to be VERY inflexible in most cases on that type of request. But… my kids studied on the bus on the way to meets/games. And most coaches let them study in the stands while others competed. Although one particular coach insisted that they not do that, and watch/cheer for whichever other team was on the floor (JV or varsity). Which made our college prep kids and parents very annoyed, as the homework does not go away on game nights. That coach was pretty unpopular.
The worst of all worlds for us was when the coaches had kids “taxi” between JV and varsity. So they would play with both teams (although pretty much on the bench for varsity) in the same meet/match. And sometimes she wanted them to practice with both teams. It was way too time consuming. But your kid wants to do it because they think it will help their chances of being on varsity the next year. But I loathed it.
Mathyone, I was not talking about the OP’s kid in that post, I was making a general point. Ever since the colleges have said that they want the kids to take the most demanding course load possible as is offered in their high school, many kids are taking demanding courses not because they are able or interested, but because they feel compelled. Giving them a choice is akin to giving them a rope to hang themselves. The colleges are being ridiculous here in my opinion so someone has to be the sane adult, and I am happy that my kid’s school has stepped in and limiting excess. Now if a kid is able and interested then they never hold the kid back. I am also very happy that the limit the max number of courses, as otherwise it is a slippery slope where soon what all the kids will be doing is study 24x7. That’s a death spiral.
In the USA everyone works too hard. Some do because they need to make ends meet, but others do not because it is necessary, but because of peer pressure. That’s not good in my opinion. Now, imagine if there was a law (as in France) that hourly employees cannot work more than 35 hours a week. That would lower the supply of labor, increase the minimum wage, and make for a much better lifestyle for everyone involved. Similarly, if all competitive high schools said no, college admissions would remain unchanged, and we won’t have kids cramming for no good reason other than US colleges setting a ridiculous standard.
I must say that I am influenced by my background as Asian colleges do not demand this much of kids.
Our XC kids are usually required to attend the entire meet/awards. It’s many unnecessary hours of waiting around, and I think pretty insensitive to how busy/tired these kids are, but your kid should be doing homework while waiting around, on the bus, etc. I am wondering whether she is really using her time as well as you think. Missing meets or practices? I doubt that would be allowed, not even for JV In our school.
It simply isn’t true that kids have to take ALL the most demanding courses offered in their high schools to get into top schools. They have to take a rigorous courseload. But the student who took 15 APs is not at an advantage over the student who took 10 APs when you get into actuall admissions results. In fact, the student who took 15 likely didn’t do any ECs of note – and thus will likely fare worst. It is a balancing act.
Intparent, I would dearly like to believe that you are right. But I just attended the College Admissions Myths and Truths meeting for 9th and 10th graders in my kid’s school, and was told that there is no choice between an A in a regular course and a B in an honors course, it has to be an A in an honors course, or else. With this kind of (mis)information going around, it is hard to keep the faith that life is not about the toughest courseload and highest grades. Perhaps the colleges need to step up and clearly say this. But, I quote Princeton:
We survived it with both our children. As with most things there are pros and cons. For us the pros outweighed the cons. It helped them with time management and prioritizing skills. It made them confident in their abilities.
Learning to deal with stress and possible disappointment are a part of growing up. I suggest you embrace the opportunity to discuss and listen to your child’s desires and opinions. You can guide her in projecting actions and consequences. Run through scenarios (drop down in English, stop x/c, speaking with the coach, etc) with her and see what her expectations are.
Lastly, sometimes it makes sense to take the AP class in a subject outside one’s intended college major. I know quite a few students who were very happy they didn’t have to take certain required classes because they received the AP credit for the class.
Read “How to be a High School Superstar” by Cal Newport. Sure, there is a minimum bar of academic difficulty and GPA for admissions. But once you clear that bar, they are saying, " What else have you got?" The best way to get into top colleges is NOT to compete head to head with the kid grinding out 15 APs, or for that matter to seek to be valedictorian, or be the best at common high school ECs. The kid who swims against this tide and excels at something uncommon is the winner in this process.
Schools don’t want automatons. They want genuine intellectual kids who are interesting and may go onto great things. Grinders aren’t what they truly seek.
Intparent, Please forgive me for saying this, but I would prefer to believe what the colleges say than what Cal Newport says (yes, I have read the book) or what individual parents say on CC. This is what Harvard says:
Emphasis mine.
To me, this translates to, “We like kids who kill themselves today and will kill themselves tomorrow with no work-life balance.”
Now, I do not subscribe to this philosophy having grown up in an Asian country, attending a HYPSM equivalent school, then attending a couple of Ivies for Graduate School in the USA without any problem, and succeeding splendidly in the US workforce, all the while maintaining a very good work-life balance. Thankfully, neither does my kid. But I do know how severe the peer pressure can be.
“Load up on AP and Honors courses and get A+ in all, or else”. Or else what? Or else don’t get into Princeton I presume. That’s probably true. But is the OP’s daughter going to get into Princeton anyhow? Her courseload and EC’s seem pretty typical of the 100 or so honors students per grade at our high school–and maybe one of them will get into Princeton. (One who took 12 or so APs and still had time to do some EC’s more impressive and time-consuming than JV XC.)
A lot of the angst I see over academic loads and APs is coming from the idea that every honor student has to keep up with the top ones and with families looking at expectations of tippy top schools and imagining that these apply to all schools.
If the classes are indeed “fabulous”, I wouldn’t drop out of them. Don’t underestimate the value of a good English class. That’s why I suggested dropping the XC instead. For a different kid, different situation, it might make more sense to scale back the academics.