Frustrated with California Public Schools

Parents Forum
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<p>I have a son in his senior year with similar tendencies, although his interests are in the math and science realms. The competition is fierce for seats in the science AP classes at his high school, plus he finished Calc BC as a sophomore, so he decided to go the CC route to supplement his high school classes.</p>

<p>As you know, the quality of CC’s varies, but if you have a good one within commuting range, they are an excellent option. We had to make prior arrangements with the high school; they have a policy that students may not substitute a CC course for the same class available at the high school. However, after approval, he is receiving dual high school and college credit, and the weighted units have given his GPA a nice boost.</p>

<p>My son has truly benefited from his experience. He’s taking three courses there this year; two of his instructors teach the same courses at the well-regarded $40K-per-year college nearby. Without exception, all of his instructors have been very approachable and encouraging, more so than his high school teachers in my opinion. He has been given ideas for research in his own areas of interest, has been lent books to read, and has even had the opportunity to work on a grant proposal to a major corporation.</p>

<p>What your son may find particularly stimulating is the range of students he’ll encounter there. Since my son is required by his HS to take 200-level courses, he finds the motivation among his classmates to be strong and the level of collaboration versus competition to be high as well. There are some excellent transfer students in the class who are taking the CC route for financial reasons, late-20’s students who are changing careers, and a retired teacher who says she is taking the advanced math course to develop the right side of her brain. All in all, there is a great deal of diversity and experience.</p>

<p>Others have made the excellent point that credits may not transfer to your son’s eventual college choice. If in-state colleges are on his list and he would like to utilize his coursework, he should make sure his class choices have a CAN (California Articulation Number) identifier. The UC’s and CSU’s accept these courses for undergraduate credit. We were told at one UC that the junior and senior year GPA’s for CC transfer students are generally higher than those of the four-year students, so evidently the rigor of the courses is very adequate.</p>

<p>CC’s don’t always get a whole lotta love on these boards, so I thought I’d give the contrarian viewpoint. For the right student at the right CC, they are not only a viable option, but a great opportunity as well.</p>

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<p>marite and curmudgeon -- </p>

<p>thanks for the info! he is not enrolled full-time (does some online high school classes and some self-study) and money would most likely prevent any full-time enrollment (no free classes in Colorado).</p>

<p>I am glad to hear it will not be a problem, since he is really enjoying the classes he takes and it is a better option for him than the local high school.</p>

<p>stef</p>

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<p>Thanks for clearing that up, sloparent--I just thought you were describing yourself as a slow runner...</p>

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<p>To the OP - if your S ends up with "average grades" from an "average hs", because he marches to a different drummer, that doesn't have to lead to your fear of not getting into a "college that would benefit him."</p>

<p>True, he may not gain admittance to schools where GPA's are at the tippy-top, but then again he may. He and you need to find schools where his creative writing abilities and passion will shine. Believe me, their essay prompts will give him all the room he needs. </p>

<p>If this thread doesn't go in the direction of helping you find the right list of schools - from the most selective to the most likely for your S - you can start another one asking for college ideas for a brilliant writer who is a fish out of water in his current hs. You will get plenty of great ideas.</p>

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<p>Bluebayou - regarding your post #16 (school has a legal obligation....) - the OP's son refused to write the essay required for class entrants. In other words he doesn't want the class - for whatever reason. Since an AP English class is going to involve repeated essay writing, and rewriting, and practice exams, it isn't a good idea for a kid who doesn't want to write 1 essay to take such a course -- unless he morphs into a more cooperative kid, he will end up unhappy and his grades will suffer. </p>

<p>For that matter, even though the community college idea suggested by many would be a good idea for a kid who complained of boredom -- its not altogether clear whether that is the OP's son's problem. His balking at the AP essay-writing may be an indication that he doesn't want more work. I know all of us cc parents would like to see our kids excel in high school, but there are kids who are happier just doing the bare minimum the high school requires of them, and having extra time to themselves or for whatever it is they would rather be doing than studying and attending school. For a creative writer in the making, that could mean simply having a lot of time to himself to read and write. I think it would be a good idea for the OP to look into any creative writing course that may be offered at the cc, but I don't think its a good idea to push a reluctant 15 year old toward college courses. That can wait until the kid is ready.</p>

<p>Sloparent -- I'm sorry your high school doesn't give credit for cc courses, but I know that is not the case with all Calfornia public high schools. My d's school not only gives credit, but weights them -- which is why my daughter's class rank fell from 2nd to 5th place between first and second semester. She had been tied with 1 kid and at least 2 others turned in their records of accumulated cc credit during fall semester. We're not the type to begrudge that sort of thing, but obviously it allows some manipulation of GPA - the class val also has a lot of college course credit. One reason I woudn't complain is that my d's high school also was very reasonable about giving her credit for work done during her semester abroad -- but they didn't weight that, so my d. ended up with a whole bunch of unweighted A's, which of course actually brought her rank down a notch. </p>

<p>Finally, a word in defense of California public schools. My kids both attended public alternative/magnet schools all the way through, so I realize that is not quite the same as being stuck whatever school the district assigns -- but both of my kids had very positive high school experiences. Not perfect, by any means -- but there is some value in attending high school in a diverse environment where kids have to fend for themselves somewhat. And my kids have had some opportunities come there way in public school that might not have been there for them in private school.</p>

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<p>Erin'smom, is there a school in your area that offers IB instead of AP? I agree that AP classes can be uninspiring in that cram-for-the-test way.</p>

<p>It takes a really good teacher to make an Ap class more than test prep.</p>

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<p>"It takes a really good teacher to make an Ap class more than test prep."</p>

<p>This is less true for English than for other subjects. The English APs are driven by skills, not content. This means that a teacher can offer a wide variety of assignments provided they challenge the students to read and interpret closely. Also, it's a fallacy to believe that students will do well on the exam if they confrom to some kind of five-paragraph essay structure. Teachers who offer an overly formulaic approach to AP essay writing not only deprive their students of interesting assignments; they set them up to do worse than they otherwise would on the AP exam. AP readers are repeatedly told to watch out for essays that seem formulaic in their approach, as these essays tend to force readings upon the material rather than respond fluidly to it.</p>

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<p>calmom - (I'm one too)</p>

<p>I was the OP on this thread....my son didn't necessarily "refuse" to write the essay, but he was apparently unclear on what exactly was required and didn't take the initiative to pursue it to the end. Yep, we can blame that on youthfulness and a bit of hubris....hopefully maturity will lead him to realize there is a certain amount of "conformity" that is necessary to survive in the real world and it's not a bad thing. At this point, I'm apparently being too pushy (he says) since he is only a Sophomore and is primarily interested in Anime and Nintendo games right now. But, he's making all A's, so perhaps I should calm down a bit. </p>

<p>SBmom - I don't even know what IB is and I'm pretty certain it isn't offered at our school. There are, fortunately, a couple of really good AP teachers at our HS (Chem and Lit) but I do agree that they teach towards a test. My d doesn't have her AP test results back yet, so we'll see.</p>

<p>jmmom - I agree about the different drummer. And there's no way we'd even consider Ivy for my s simply because at this point he doesn't want the heavily academic, although I know he's capable, just not desirous. And thanks for making the assumption he's a brilliant writer. If I knew how to make one of those smily-faced icons, I'd insert it here.</p>

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<p>IB= International Baccalaureate</p>

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<p>I asked that question specifically to Matt McGann of MIT a few months ago, and the official answer is that you can have as many college credits as you want, from whatever source, and still apply for first-year admission as long as you never ENROLLED (matriculated) in a degree program at any of the previous schools. I expect my son to have "college credit" from EPGY by the time he applies to some list of colleges (which may or may not include MIT), and he already has college-for-high-school credit from our state university college of extension and from a proprietary business college, and expects to have two years of PSEO (formal dual-enrollment program) credits before he matriculates at college. The most selective colleges are used to this kind of thing. I'm sure Marite's answer, which I can confirm is Harvard's policy, is the general answer at most of the top schools.</p>

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<p>ellemenope: I'm not exactly a fast runner, though. On the treadmill, I keep it to walking pace. :-)</p>