Hi all!
I am hoping folks can weigh in with their opinion. Our daughter has dreams of playing D1 volleyball. She has worked very very hard for years and currently has 3 outstanding offers (she has already turned down a 4th D3 offer). Two offers are from D1 schools (the 3rd is from a D3 and not so much part of this discussion).
Her dream school is so-so academically. But it is BIG D1 volleyball – lots of fans, tv coverage, folks have heard of the school, etc. Over 20K students attend here. She has been offered a walk-on position (no money) and she will have to fight for court time (if she ever sees the court). Maybe, maybe, maybe if she does really well she could get money later down the line, but really? Would that ever happen (what’s their incentive?). It is out-of-state for us, so she will be about $90K in debt once we have given her the $50k we have put away for her education. (She is one of 6 children, so saving for college has been a huge stretch). She wants to go here…
She got an offer for a full-ride (tuition, room & board, etc) from a small D1 school. It is better academically from her dream school. But it is small – like 2500 students – just slightly larger than her high school. And it is in the tiniest little town (I don’t think there is even a convenience store). Hardly anyone has heard of it (which she hates – she wants to go somewhere people “know the name”). Her older brother goes to this small school (also NOT a selling point for her). She would probably get court time (“big fish in a little pond”). We told her if she picks the full ride, she can have the $50K we have saved for her education for graduate school.
I need help convincing her!! I know that this is her decision, but I cannot start her off in life almost $90K in debt. That is crippling & will impact her for 10-15 years after college graduation (at least!). I might as well be talking “Martian” to her as she does not understand this kind of debt and takes the “I’ll figure it out later” attitude. She owes us $250 for something now & she is paying it off over 20 weeks ($25 every other week) and she moans & complains about that. I cannot imagine her owing $90K (that’s almost $1000/month for 10 years!).
Although she is a junior, we have a ticking clock as she has told the full-ride school “she is not sure” and they have started looking for another player. She can still have the offer if she accepts it before another player does (she has had plenty of time).
Anyone have any thoughts??? Full-ride, right? Is there something I am not considering in regards to the walk-on???
Man, that’s a toughie. Logically, of course you are correct. Full ride vs 90K in debt - no brainer. The emotional part makes it hard. Freshman year can be a tough time for a lot of kids anyway, and you’d hate for her to start off with an attitude that she really doesn’t want to be there.
By hemming and hawing about the full-ride, it sounds like she’s kind of hoping the offer disappears and the decision gets made for her. Maybe take her car shopping - show her a sweet sports car and tell her she can have the car at full-ride, or ride the bus at big school. Kidding. Sort of.
One thing to consider is that you would have to co-sign for any loans. With 6 kids, I can’t imagine you would want to- or be able to- do that for each child. Is there anything in between the big D1 and the full ride D1? I can understand her reluctance to attend such a tiny school in a remote area, especially with her brother. But there is no way you should let her accumulate $90,000 in debt for undergrad. I hope she has other options.
Is her objective to get a good education (paid for) or hope for a small chance to play D1 volleyball (full pay)? What realistic economic payoffs are there for professional volleyball? To me, the choice is simple, go with the school that’s paying her.
Oh wow – I did not even consider the co-signing part. We definitely don’t want to do that. She likes the “finer” things and never has been a saver. I imagine she might default on the loan & then we would be stuck paying for HER dream of BIG D1 volleyball (where she might not even play!). Even if she does “tighten her belt” after graduation, $1000 a month (for 10 years) is A LOT of money for almost anyone – and definitely a recent college graduate starting out on her own.
takeitallin – Well, since it is junior year, she has not opened herself up to other options that are not associated with volleyball. The D3 school is in-state and would be a good fit for her (although, she just changed – for the first of what will most likely be many times – what she thinks she wants to major in & they don’t have that program).
She still is on a very short list for another D1 school – in-state and also big (+20K students). If she gets an offer at the in-state D1 school, it will be a walk-on, but at least it is in-state & more affordable (this school would be the absolute best fit for her). She doesn’t like this school as much as her dream school because it does not have the glitz and big-time vb sports feel, but it would be a very close 2nd. She would only be in debt (after our contribution) about $20K here (much more manageable).
But – who knows if she will get an offer at the in-state D1 school (we should know soon). And, by the time she knows, the full-ride offer could be gone.
I’d suggest going to the best school that is affordable and, if possible, one where she could play volleyball. Trying to walk on at the big school and maybe not see any court time doesn’t sound like a good option, especially since getting $ down the road appears unlikely and speculative. Where would she be happy if she got hurt or otherwise couldn’t play volleyball?
Is she eligible for any merit scholarships or need based financial aid? If not, then OOS is just too expensive.
Is she correctly assessing her skills? Is she good enough for the top, top school (that isn’t giving her a scholarship right now)? If she is that good, she should be getting full scholarship offers at some D1 schools that aren’t quite as good. I’m not talking tiny schools, but other flagships that might not be as strong in volleyball.
I wouldn’t take the walk on spot at any D1 program. She will be the outsider with almost all the others on scholarship, and maybe one or two working just as hard but not getting playing time. The only exception I could see is if all freshmen are walk ons and then earn their scholarships in future years. She needs to know that the team will require all her time so she won’t be able to have a part time job. If the school is in a power 5 conference, the scholarship players will get a stipend of $3000-4000, so her teammates will just plain have more money than she does, and it makes a big difference.
If I were her, I’d keep looking. If she really wants to play, she should look at matches that are more with her skill set. She should look at Division 2 schools, where she won’t get a full scholarship but may get very close, especially if she can earn merit scholarships. She should see what kind of FA package the D3 schools offer; with 6 kids and others in college, I’d be surprised if there weren’t some pretty good offers.
Also, what about searching out a private D1 or D2 school where your family might qualify for financial aid? Have you run the NPC for a few schools to see what the school will cost without an athletic scholarship? If it looks like you might qualify for financial aid, then taking a non-scholarship walk-on spot is more attractive. Is she a strong or average student?
txstella – Unfortunately, we do not qualify for any financial aid (or very, very, very little – sadly almost laughable). She was considering a very prestigious school (not Ivy league, but close) and was going to be a walk-on. The price-tag was $70K/yr and we only qualified for $6k/yr in aid… total 4 year cost (in 2015 dollars, not adjusted for the percent increase) was $256k. We told her no (we would have LOVED to have had that happen for her). It would have been an excellent school for her (albeit academically challenging) that she would have been able to attend only because volleyball would have opened the door for her (she would not have been accepted otherwise).
She is a good student – 3.95 GPA, SATs 1160 (on 2 sections). So good – not valedictorian, but we are proud of her accomplishments. The dream volleyball school (mentioned above) is several rungs beneath her on the academic ladder. The prices I quoted above for the dream school (in my initial post) reflect the academic scholarship she would receive from the school (not the full sticker price).
p.s. – I am new to this forum, so I am not sure if I am replying in the “right” way. Please let me know if I should be replying in a different way – thanks!
So you have $50,000 saved for your daughter and can’t/won’t take out any loans. Your daughter is limited to $27,000 in loans. For a total of $77,000 to pay for 4 years. How in the world were you going to to pay for her college if she wasn’t such a good athlete? She is a good student but may be very limited in where she can receive merit aid unless she can improve her SAT or perhaps try the ACT. Her SAT is fine but it is not helping her.
If your family qualifies for no financial aid (or very little), then your daughter has very few options. Even the in-state school is likely too expensive. I think the D1 full ride at the small school may be the only real option that she can afford.
Let me get this right. She could go to her dream school, never see the court, get a less than stellar education, AND incur $90K of debt?
What am I missing here?
txstella - Yes, that would be enough with the stafford loans, etc. We have a son in school and with academic scholarships, the stafford loans, summer jobs, and his savings, he will be able to do it on that amount (and have some left over to get started in school). In state schools (with the honors scholarships) are about $15-$17K/yr (with room & board). We are helping our children as much as we can.
First of all, let me say that I think you did a great job by being able to put away $50,000 for her education when you have 6 kids. The full ride does sound like an option but not if your d is dead set against that school. Such a small, isolated school is not for everyone! Has she considered playing her first 2 years at a community college to develop more experience and skill and then trying to transfer to a bigger D1? We know athletes who have done that and been very successful in their sport. I will say that until the summer before my son’s senior year, he was so determined to play D1 that he was willing to go to any big D1 w/o regard for the level of academics. He worked so hard in high school and had great stats and we didn’t want it to be all for nothing. Fortunately something finally clicked and he decided to look for schools that fit him otherwise and were academically challenging, and had his sport. He ended up in a D2 program at a very large, competitive school, loves it, and is a starter in his sport. Since your D is still a junior I would keep looking. The small school just doesn’t sound like a good fit. Is she actively contacting coaches of other programs? There is a lot she can do to promote herself.
One thing you might tell her is that even at a D1, volleyball will probably not get a lot of attention from other students- not like football or basketball would. Maybe she already realizes that and it’s not a big deal. But I know my son had this picture of a full stadium of spectators cheering on D1 soccer teams lol. It just doesn’t happen with the less popular sports. Once he realized that I think he became more realistic about his options.
takeitallin – Yes! That is exactly what we have been telling her. We have been waiting for it to click. Every school has been #1 on her list (especially just after a visit). She told me (not even 2 weeks ago) that she was ready to commit to the D3 school (it would be a good fit for her). I told her to “live with that for a month” before she actually committed (they told her take as long as she needs to decide). THAT night, she got the call from the BIG D1 school with the walk-on offer. One month ago, the BIG D1 school was not even on her radar. Now she doesn’t think she even wants to go to the D3 school.
I want her to keep looking. She says she just wants to be “done”. She says she is so tired of the recruiting roller coaster.
When you looked into financial aid, did you run the NPC for a school that promises to meet full need? There are about 60 of these schools. Many of them are very selective, but your daughter’s athletic skills could make a difference at a school where she is a bit below the typical admitted student. If you own your own business, then that could be the problem with financial aid.
Has she tried the ACT? Her grades are very good.
With 6 kids, it is hard to believe you won’t recieve any financial aid, but there are a lot of schools that aren’t very generous including most OOS publics. Good luck. As a parent, I would find it very difficult to walk away from the full ride offer.
6Chickadees - i read under another CC thread that you have to really know what kind of kid you have to take out a significant amount of debt to finance college. Generally speaking the kid needs to be hard working, dedicated to doing well and goal focused. Only you know what type of child you have. Eventhough our sons and daughters are close to going to college they still need our wisdom and guidance even if it is reluctantly received.
I know-it is VERY stressful and I can relate. Our S went through this same process. He had a big D1 who wanted him to apply ED with only promises of a walk-on. We said no as there was no way we could afford it. He did end up applying RD, was accepted with a small scholarship, and we still said no as we still couldn’t afford it. A lot of D3’s are still recruiting into senior year and your D’s stats may allow her academic scholarships at D3 schools. Also, a lot may change over the summer. A big question to ask your D is, if she were injured and could no longer play volleyball, is the big D1 school still a place she would have chosen? (or maybe you don’t want to ask her this if you know the answer will be yes lol) in any event, it sounds like the big D1 is unaffordable and the small one is not a fit. I’d have her keep looking.
Yes! ACT is on the agenda for the next test date (June). I tried to get her to take it earlier, but EVERYTHING was so overwhelming to her (and she thought she had another offer in the bag) that she thought it was not necessary. If she kills it on the ACT, she will more than double the academic scholarship available to her at the big D1 school… making the same price as in-state and more affordable.
Our other issue with the big D1 school, it is really several rungs down the academic ladder – and it is known for being HUGE party school. Only volleyball is her interest there & we cannot get her to see past that.
