With college application season coming up, I have a couple of questions about the whole Ivy League vs. State School debate. I have a friend who started college last year, and she got into University of Pennsylvania along with University of Wisconsin, Madison. She got no financial aid from UPenn, since her parents are upper-middle class but are not helping her with tuition. At University of Wisconsin, on the other hand, she was offered so much scholarship money that not only will her whole education be free, but the school will be refunding her a couple thousand per semester. She ended up going to UW, because at UPenn she would have had to take out hundreds of thousands of dollars in student loans, but she’s mentioned feeling guilty that she passed it up after the fact.
So, what do you think? I obviously don’t know if I’ll get into an Ivy, but I am National Merit and I think I will get a good amount of financial aid from my state school. If I am faced with this problem, what should I do? Do you think my friend made the right decision or no?
Her situation is not yours. Your parents are willing to pay for your education correct? Your parents’ income is different from her parents’ income correct? In addition, Penn’s financial aid differs from Harvard or Princeton’s financial aid. You need to wait and see the financial aid you get, then decide.
What you should do is have a frank discussion with your parents about this, not random starngers who won’t be paying your college bill. And if you didn’t already have this conversation, you might be in for a rude awakening.
And run the NPC (Net Price Calculator) on your targets’ web sites. Know what you might be offered. The NPC isn’t as great for self employed or some other situations, but is a good start for vanilla.
About the choice: if you’re in WI, UW is a solid choice. Many flagships are. Many CC adults will note you can always do grad or professional school at some tippy top. And how debt is a major ball and chain, for a long time.
After you get your first job, where you went to college will hardly ever come up again in your life.
You will be employed most probably at the same job where a person from a state school also graduated.
You will have hundreds and maybe even many hundreds of thousdands of dollars in debt post-graduation.
Meanwhile, the person who went to state college will own a house sooner and has the opportunity to take grad school at night.
After all is said and done you will have a t-shirt with a big H being eaten by moths in your closet.
@reformedman I would generally agree with your comments but the Ivy’s are in a league of their own (pun intended). Those schools are always prominently displayed on resume’s. After that, there is a huge drop off into irrelevance which I think was your point. Ivy is worth the extra cost.
@Newb3476 It’s a fair question and something for you to weigh in the selection process based on your family’s situation. I hope you’ve done the calculator for each school to get an idea of what your EFC will be for all of the schools on your list. In some instances, the private / Ivy league schools end up being cheaper than the state schools because they have greater resources to provide grants/ scholarships. Sit down with your parents and weigh the options.
I’m not familiar with UW but did a quick google search to see if the NM has any GPA requirements in order to keep it and found that the NM award is limited to 5 students and amounts of the award will vary based on financial need. This is why you can’t compare your situation to your friends because your financial aid/ merit outcome could end up being very different than your friends. UW-Madison requires you select them as your NM first choice by March 1 so keep that in mind if that is going to be your NM first choice school. Good luck!
@hhjjlala Sorry, forgot to mention that my parents will not be helping me with college either (in my case, because they are about to retire and can’t pay for both college and retirement). I don’t know her parents’ income, but I am fairly certain that I would not get much Ivy League financial aid based on mine, which is why I felt like her case was a good comparison. But, like I said, I’m not even sure I will get into an Ivy - I’m just interested in the hypothetical for now and which option people would value more.
@citymama9 Yeah, that’s kind of what I was thinking too. I don’t really know if I could afford an Ivy, since it would involve me taking out significant student loans. I actually live in Minnesota, so the U of M would be my state school, and they have some good options for National Merit scholarships if you declare them as your first choice early. I’m just reluctant to commit myself there, since I always told myself I would not go to my state university for college! (I know it’s not a bad school, but just not the same as an Ivy League.)
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UPenn she would have had to take out hundreds of thousands of dollars in student loans, but she’s mentioned feeling guilty that she passed it up after the fact.
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You and your friend need to know that you likely could not have taken out those big loans. You would need qualified and willing co-signers and most parents won’t/can’t cosign.
Your parents are about to retire. NOT likely willing to co-sign big loans since THEY would be responsible if you couln’t pay (including if you became disabled or died). Your friend’s parents likely would not have co-signed either. So, she is regretting something that never likely would have happened. If she knows that they wouldn’t have cosigned, then her wondering is moot.
BTW…no school, not even an ivy, is worth big debt. Your friend made the right decision. UWisc (and many other schools) are a great choice, especially if going for free or nearly free.
@mom2collegekids Thanks, I did not know about needing a cosigner for the loans. My friend is currently majoring in anthropology. I am hoping to go to school for computer science, but that might change since I’m not really sure what kind of career I want yet.
If your parents will contribute nothing, then your realistic net price limit is probably around $10,000 per year (what you can come up with federal direct loans and part time work earnings). If their finances will disqualify you from need-based aid, then expensive schools with no merit scholarships (including Ivy League schools) will not be worth applying to, since you will not be able to afford them, unless you somehow get a very large outside merit scholarship (quite rare).
Note that loans greater than the federal direct loans ($5,500 frosh year, slightly increasing later years) require a cosigner. If your parents cannot afford to contribute to your college costs, cosigning student loans for you is a bad idea for both them and you.
Thanks for the tips, everyone. I’m feeling a bit less guilt-ridden about considering a state university, although I will probably still apply to the Ivies. I know that the U of M has a good honors program as well, but I do wonder whether mentioning that to employers will make it sound like I am trying to make excuses for the school I went to. I think I’m really just disappointed that a top-tier school might be out of reach, since academics are kind of a big part of my identity. I know people expect me to go someplace that’s hard to get into, so looking at a (very accepting) state school feels a bit weird.
Rarely do employers ask for a reason you chose X college. If it’s CS, you get the best experience you can during college, research, internships and summer work. Then they’ll be happy.
I don’t really know if I could afford an Ivy, since it would involve me taking out significant student loans. I actually live in Minnesota, so the U of M would be my state school, and they have some good options for National Merit scholarships if you declare them as your first choice early. I’m just reluctant to commit myself there, since I always told myself I would not go to my state university for college! (I know it’s not a bad school, but just not the same as an Ivy League.)
I know people expect me to go someplace that’s hard to get into, so looking at a (very accepting) state school feels a bit weird.