<p>well, i'm sure that other schools (schools that may give out merit aid) may take into account race, but I honestly don't think it happens in the ivy league. i know many white/asian people on financial aid at Harvard and many blacks/hispanics who aren't. the fact is, harvard awards aid based upon need. those who need it, get it. no matter what race they are. maybe this practice of race-based aid happens at other schools. </p>
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And if I may ask, what was your EFC?
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my efc was high, so i guess it was pretty silly for me to ask for aid. it was 99,999.</p>
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well, i'm sure that other schools (schools that may give out merit aid) may take into account race, but I honestly don't think it happens in the ivy league.
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<p>You can't really know that without studying the financial aid office's records. Granted I can't prove my point either without those same records, but common sense says that if a school that wants to increase its black and hispanic enrollment, and if it gives preferential treatment to blacks and hispanics in admissions, it will be willing and likely to extend that preferential treatment to financial aid awards.</p>
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i know many white/asian people on financial aid at Harvard and many blacks/hispanics who aren't. the fact is, harvard awards aid based upon need. those who need it, get it. no matter what race they are
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<p>The thing is, need based aid forumlas tend to be pretty stingy. Common sense says that a college -- even Ivy League Schools -- will work a little harder to meet the financial needs of a student it really wants. And we all know that top colleges in the US are absolutely obsessed with race.</p>
<p>I agree that any school will provide preferential packaging to those students that they really want to attract. </p>
<p>However, if you look through some of the acceptances and even search the threads here on the financial aid forum, you will find that there are a number of students (urms included) who turned down the ivies because they could not afford to attend.</p>
<p>Our EFC is much lower than yours, but higher than COA and we got nothing.
simba, sorry if my post implied that i got aid. but trust me,i got no aid from harvard (or any other top 25 school i applied to). my parents even requested that they reconsider our financial aid application, but the result was the same, no aid. the only thing harvard gave me was the stafford loan (which i don't really consider aid since the $2500 barely covers personal expenses). my parents pay the 45k tuition out of pocket every year. the only places that gave me aid were some state schools and some private colleges really trying hard to increase diversity.</p>
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the thing about the black kids at harvard is that they are mostly upper middle class. and like i said, i personally know many of them who did not get financial aid because they were upper middle class. don't let harvard fool you. while i'm sure they value diversity, there are many more upper middle class black people than lower class blacks.</p>
<p>but your right, i guess we can't know for sure unless we have the fin aid records. i just know from my personal experience that aid seems to be distributed according to need rather than race. but who knows.</p>
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I agree that any school will provide preferential packaging to those students that they really want to attract. </p>
<p>However, if you look through some of the acceptances and even search the threads here on the financial aid forum, you will find that there are a number of students (urms included) who turned down the ivies because they could not afford to attend.
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<p>And there are probably also plenty of blacks and hispanics who were rejected from Ivy League schools because their grades or test scores weren't good enough. But that doesn't mean that race plays no role in college admissions. </p>
<p>To me, it strains credulity to think that race is so imporant at the admissions office but is totally irrelevant next door in the financial aid office. Both offices are part of the same university that is trying to increase black and hispanic enrollment.</p>
<p>Actually, Harvard does not load you up with loans in our experience. They offer a loan for the student contribution if that's how you want to do it, but otherwise it's all grants in our experience. </p>
<p>And Harvard did help out some when we questioned their original FA offer.</p>
<p>Two friends are going to Brown in fall as sophomore transfers. They not only have their full tuition covered without loans, but they also have paid-for off-campus housing (owned by the university) and each get a small stipend to pay for expenses. That's pretty much the sweetest deal ever, I think.</p>
<p>Outside the Ivy League, I have a friend at Amherst who pays $10 a year. Craziness.</p>
<p>Being a URM might help with admissions but not financial aid.
Finances at the elites should be the least of your concerns. Prepare yourself and go for it!
Princeton does not expect anyone to borrow and does not consider home equity as an asset. Others vary but are generous as well. I would explicitly let people know your financial circumstances in your application, if you are a legitimate elite candidate, and bypass the supposed advantage of "need blind admissions". In my opinion the 15 or so schools with the deepest pockets are trying to increase the number of low income students.</p>
<p>lskinner...
After reading your earlier post, I'll give more of a response.
Well, I'm not in the room when the financial aid offices make these decisions. I guess I can't be sure.
The reason I believe they don't vary the packages by individual is because they say they don't, and continually claim that there is a wall between admissions and financial aid. This is repeated so often that messing with this with one or more individuals in my mind would be way more trouble than it is worth, particularly if it got out. The Ivies need based mantra was instituted as much as anything to prevent themselves from spending money out-bidding each other.
The Ivy League itself was formed in large part to make sure the Ivies wouldn't spend money bidding against each other for athletic talent.
The need only, formula based system works for them. They have no interest, IMO, in starting a free-for-all that would cost them bucks.</p>
<p>Well my financial aid package was pretty good. My efc was 9500 and so my total family contribution was $12000 (there's a $2500 work expectation at Brown). But luckily for the first year Brown gives an extra $2500 Work Scholarship so freshman don't have to work and with my $5000 in outside scholarships I don't have to take the Perkins or the Stafford this year. So basically Brown is costing my family $9500 this year which is somewhat affordable, so yeah I believe the Ivy League is pretty affordable. (actually Brown was cheaper than Umich).</p>
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The reason I believe they don't vary the packages by individual is because they say they don't, and continually claim that there is a wall between admissions and financial aid.
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<p>Would you mind posting a few quotes from the universities in question? Thanks!!</p>
<p>If you go to college information sessions they almost always will go over their financial aid policies and emphasize these features. Likewise their web sites discuss this under "Financial Aid".
I'm talking here about the top 15-20 "Need Only" elites, including the Ivies, Amherst, Williams, Pomona, etc. There are plenty of colleges just below these that give merit aid, differentially package aid, etc. Some of these might even have scholarship money that has been donated specifically to support URM students.
In the case of Dartmouth, the financial aid office handed me their need-based algorithm, so that I could calculate what my kid's aid would be. I'm not sure if Princeton has a paper version, but the "Early Estimator" on their website takes just minutes to complete and does the same thing. Changing the numbers here and there to see the result gives you a good idea of how their algorithm works.</p>
<p>It is only my personal experience, but need only schools (including high Ivies) will modify FA packages for students they really want, including URMs. There is a fair amount of "professional judgement" involved in FA. One Ivy decided to ignore our home equity in their FA review when shown offers from competiting schools. You don't have to believe me, but it does happen and the difference in our case was substantial. Again, I don't think this only happens only for URMs, but rather for any student that a school finds highly desirable.</p>
<p>hotpiece, I'm guessing it didn't happen in your case because you have an extremely high EFC, with a family closer to the COA, they might be more likely to give some FA.</p>
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If you go to college information sessions they almost always will go over their financial aid policies and emphasize these features. Likewise their web sites discuss this under "Financial Aid".
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<p>Ok, so why not link a few of these web sites?</p>