I know what the Maryland community would say, but I’m still asking the Duke community. My son was admitted to Duke as a computer science major and was also offered a full ride to the University of Maryland Honors College for computer science. Total four year cost of attendance at Maryland is $0. Duke offered roughly $15,000 in grants and assuming this remains constant, with typical increases in cost, four years cost of attendance would be roughly $200,000. To some families this would be impossible, to others it would be a drop in the bucket. The cost is possible but would be a tremendous financial undertaking. What does the Duke community think?
There’s a pretty clear difference between the academic caliber and rank of the schools, and as a result, many prestigious companies recruit at Duke and don’t do so at Maryland. I know you said he’s a prospective CS major, but does he have any idea on what jobs he would want? Go on that company’s website and look if they recruit from UM. Go on Linkedin to see how many UM grads work there. It’s not to say that you can’t get a prestigious job from UM, but on campus recruiting at Duke is a huge advantage over having to cold call and blindly apply to many companies.
Both schools are strong in CS but i would go with Duke on this one. I also had to choose between Duke and UMD–though the decision was slightly easier for me because UMD only offered me a partial scholarship. Nevertheless, I probably would have chosen Duke even if UMD had offered me a full ride, simply because the opportunities at Duke are absolutely amazing. CS majors at Duke have incredible opportunities to network for big companies and it’s not uncommon for Microsoft, Google, and the like to recruit Duke students.
Of course, I’m biased towards my own school, but you and your family are free to visit and decide for yourself! I can definitely say, however, that if your son is bright enough to earn a full-ride to UMD, then he’s definitely Duke material!
Getting his foot in the door at top companies in Silicon valley is much easier with a Duke CS degree vs UMD CS degree.
Thank you for these responses. It’s strong enough that I suppose I will post the same post on the Maryland site and note these Duke responses. Obviously the ultimate decision takes into account much more than these opinions but I requested opinions b/c I value the insight so thank you.
@TerpDad888, go with UMD. Strictly from a CS perspective, Duke is no MIT, Stanford, UCB or CMU. I work in the Bay area (live in NYC) and am very familiar with the talent gradations for CS folks in hitech companies. UMD is highly regarded (after all produced a Sergey Brin) and the additional COA is just not worth it to go to Duke.
@TerpDad888, @MBVLoveless, @i012575: Great infromation in post #6; thank you. Here’s the list entitled “The top 10 colleges that fuel the Silicon Valley:”
- Stanford University: 0.193
- Harvey Mudd College: 0.191
- Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT): 0.133
- Yale University: 0.112
- Duke University: 0.083
- Dartmouth College: 0.072
- Princeton University: 0.066
- Harvard University: 0.053
- Brown University: 0.047
- University of California, Berkeley: 0.035
Hmmm . . .
Good info @MBVLoveless and @TopTier…please note that we are not comparing univs as a whole, the key is that the OP is going for a CS degree. Don’t see Duke in the following list as an example…
http://www.businessinsider.com/the-20-best-schools-for-getting-a-job-at-google-2014-10
One can do their own search at the LinkedIn University Finder
https://■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■/edu/university-finder
I used filters such as CS and some cos like Google, FB, Oracle…and Duke does not show up in the top 20, UMD does. No axe to grind here as I (or any family member) did not go to either school.
I work for a VC firm. $200K for a CS degree from Duke over UMD… even I will not fall for that 
I’d have to echo everything everyone said in favor of Duke. In addition, you’ll be surprised how many companies judge you by where you went to school. To these companies (especially in Tech), it’s important to come off as smart as you can and then confirm their bias in the interview room. Duke will provide your son with just that.
I hate to advocate for choosing a college based on such superficial factors but thats just the landscape of employment at prestigious firms.
^ ^ ^
You know, one of the things that most troubles me in reading countless students’ questions is their absolute certainty – at age seventeen – regarding their futures; they will be pre-med and eventually become a physician, or go into iBanking, or major in CS, or study biomedical engineering, ad infinitum. These – and many other goals – are fine objectives, but every adult who participates in CC knows that most undergraduates change majors, often more than once. Therefore, when I read that a kid intends to major in CS, I normally think he’s also likely to end up in related fields; he’ll probably not major in English or sociology, but concentrating in applied mathematics or IT management wouldn’t be an unreasonable outcome.
That’s the precise reason I believe the article uncovered by @MBVLoveless is so valuable: it both deals with the Bay/Silicon Valley area (which was a focus in this thread) AND it provides highly worthwhile information that is neither too broad (i.e., all high technology fields, aerospace and defense are a reasonable Bay area example) nor too narrow. That’s exactly the sort of information I believe is most beneficial to the OP (and his family).
I’ll offer a small addition to post #9. I firmly agree with @Jwest22’s excellent point, and that’s based on 40+ years experience in high technology enterprises (over half with Lockheed Martin, where I eventually became the Director of their Navy fixed-wing TacAir programs, everything from the P-3 to the F-35C).
It’s one thing to receive an entry-level, post-Bachelor’s position in a highly sought after firm. However, it is an entirely different thing quite rapidly to be placed on that company’s/division’s “fast managerial track.” Time and again, “kids” in their late-twenties and/or early-thirties, with degrees from universally acknowledged top schools, were disproportionate chosen for expedited-advancement educational and leadership programs. Of course, many from not quite as distinguished academic backgrounds were similarly selected, but I was continuously surprised by the ratio, especially considering aggregate numbers.
I strongly suspect this may not be true as frequently in entrepreneurial and relatively small IT firms, but it was prevalent in organizations such as Lockheed Martin, Boeing, Northrop Grumman, Microsoft, Apple, Deloitte, and so forth.
I’ll conclude by explaining why I believe this was inordinately true. Mid/senior managers get fired or career-“sidetracked” for making poor leadership personnel decisions (as perceived by the enterprise’s most senior leaders). This is a very bad thing in your forties and fifties, when so much depends on salary and bonuses (mortgage payments, kids’ tuitions, retirement funds, and more). Those we promote into important jobs can – and occasionally do – fail to meet expectations. Potentially, that puts those involved in the promotion in a difficult, high-risk situation. One way to ameliorate such risks is to be able to explain to the “big” boss(es) that the individual had the strongest type of background: “Yes, sir, I know X really screwed-up, but he led 2012’s (internal) management development program, his MBA grades at Kellogg were excellent, and he is a Tufts graduate.” That’s not guaranteed risk mitigation, but it REALLY helps.
@TopTier Bingo! You have more experiences than I do in the working world but it really reinforces the school bias that I’ve witnessed in some firms.
Might I add, once you attend Duke and successfully graduate, “Blue Devil” will be part of your identity for life. It’s fun to hear people refer to you as a “Dukie” or a “Blue Devil” mostly out of jest. You hardly hear people jokingly referencing UMD or referring to it’s graduates as a “Terrapin.”
Just some minor things to consider.
@TopTier, I do not doubt the biases firms have towards big names for schools. The key question remains as to when is the best time to spend your limited amount of dollars. I do not consider Duke to give the OP’s child a big advantage if he/she is were to get a degree in CS from either UMD or Duke. To me the 200K can be utilized in a much better fashion for post-graduate studies or setting up a business.
I will give my credentials as an example. I did an undergrad in Mech Engg from one of the original (5) IITs, followed by an MBA from HBS (my batchmate from IIT, Nitin Nohria is the Dean there now). I was a Baker Scholar, first job at McKinsey, and so on. So I have seen the world and have some idea what it takes to succeed!
@TerpDad888, what I would suggest is as follows. Take the super offer from UMD, hopefully your ward does well, gets a few years of experience under his belt and then applies for grad studies. If he is enjoying and successful at what he is doing, there is no need for a different career path. If not, use that 200k+ to apply to one of the M7 schools (Stanford, HBS, Wharton, Columbia, Chicago, Kellogg and MIT) for an MBA. I am advocating the same for my D2 (who is a Freshman at GTech for ChemE), my D1 is at Pitt Med.
Adding a link for some numbers regarding the costs for an MBA at any of these M7 schools.
http://poetsandquants.com/2015/01/05/the-m7-the-super-elite-business-schools-by-the-numbers/
I think the bigger challenge is to convince the child to let go of the brand name school in favor of a full ride. I have seen several cases where the decision has gone in favor of full ride and others where the brand name school won.
It all depends and it is an entirely personal/family decision in my opinion. In the long run, there are countless factors within and outside our control to define and determine success. I don’t believe in the averages and the stats as a justification to attend one school over the other.
If the cost is tremendous financial undertaking as you stated, I think the child will automatically make the right call and go with the money.
^There is no “right call” or answer here. There are, however, different perspectives. I also attended HBS and worked for elite i-banks, private equity firms, have run ran companies, etc. @TopTier makes some important points regarding the way a college student’s mind develops while in university. Depending on the field there are doors that can be very difficult (if not impossible baring connections) to open without a degree from an “elite” university or LAC (there are academic studies supporting this that are discussed in other threads). However, far more important, is the impact that comes from rubbing shoulders with professors that are the leaders in their fields and consistently brilliant students. The student’s mind is opened and challenged in ways that are life changing, and the doors are opened for the student to lead the most professionally fulfilling (interesting and exciting) life available to them.
The frank reality is that your children only live once and while $200,000 is not inconsequential the horizons that open up for those able to attend a Duke intellectually and professionally (and, regretfully, even socially), generally speaking, are substantially greater than that for a student attending Maryland.
It wouldn’t surprise me if every student attending Duke not receiving a full ride could have received substantially more aid (including full merit rides) at other universities (my children certainly could have). They (and their parents), like me, value not just the brand, but more importantly the opportunities Duke provides to become everything that God created them to be and to pursue their interests at the highest levels whatever they may be. My wife and I changed direction in college and my son, who is a Sophomore at Duke, has already changed directions a couple of times and is likely to change again. Duke offers the opportunity to explore without the risk that your son suddenly finds himself graduating from a department that has no credibility in a university without a strong brand.
Often the case is made that the saved money can be used later to attend a top graduate school and have an “elite” terminal degree. This is a specious argument where a few outliers are used to prove the case (it is like saying that if you drop out of college you can become a Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Michael Dell or Mark Zuckerberg or that if you go to Maryland you can become a Sergey Brin (who attended Maryland because his father was a math professor there)). @i012575, you must recall the make-up of your HBS section and the vastly disproportionate representation of students who attended “elite” undergraduates. Yes, it is possible to go from Maryland to HBS, but the room for error on your transcript is far smaller, and your ability to have gotten the jobs that will be viewed as credible by the admissions committee substantially more limited. In my case a less than noteworthy undergraduate transcript together with outstanding work experience gained an admission to HBS. With a lesser “brand” on the application it undoubtedly would have ended up in the reject pile.
My final point is that as daunting as $200,000 may appear at this time, the difference in lifetime earnings from an “elite” undergrad versus others is likely to dwarf that amount. Obviously, this is not true for everyone (career choice impacts this), but it is for a substantial number (there are also studies supporting this assertion).
In summary IMO, the opportunity to attend an “elite” university is priceless, if at all affordable.
I’m from MD and I’d definitely say go to Duke. UMD is a pretty basic school, nothing special. A lot of doors would open with a degree from Duke.
BTW the only people that say UMD is a great school that is hard to get into is people that go/ want to go there lol
@i012575:
I fully agree with you re the issue of higher educational timing and available capital. However, many individuals’ performances are such that employers pay for the advanced degree (in my case, the Navy paid every dime of my MBA costs a Fuqua as well as my full pay/allowances during my two-year, professional schooling years at Duke . . . it was a wonderful, highly competitive deal, but I consequentially own the nation many additional years of uniformed service). My point is, lots of enterprises (public and private) have well-established plans to subsidize, in whole or in substantial part, selected employees’ advanced education (Master’s, PhDs, and MBAs, most frequently). This should not be discounted in long-term planning.
@am61517: I have been privileged to read many excellent, insightful CC posts; your #15 is one of the most thoughtful and perceptive I’ve ever seen. Thank you
Big thanks to everyone. I really appreciate the insight offered by all.