Full ride v. Berkeley debt

<p>Any input for either side is more than welcome.
We're looking at taking a free ride scholarship at the 3rd best Texas public school or taking on enormous debt to attend Berkeley.
Is it worth $80,000+ for me and $80,000+ for my daughter so that she can go to Berkeley instead of Dallas?
In our houshold, money is a big issue. We drive used cars and have a 1300 sq home. The only way I could pay the EFC is to stop saving for retirement for 4 years.
Should we sacrifice so much for Berkeley?</p>

<p>m</p>

<p>What is the 3rd best Texas public?</p>

<p>University of Texas at Dallas</p>

<p>Top 2 are
UT Austin
and
Texas A&M</p>

<p>I don't think it's worth it. $80,000 is a lot of money. If your daughter goes to UT Dallas and is a stellar student there, she should be able to have a fine education and excellent opportunities after graduation. This particularly would be true if she plans to stay in Texas. </p>

<p>By going to one of the top Texas universities, she'd have a fine network to rely on when it comes to getting jobs after graduation. If she plans to go to grad school, as long as she's a stellar student at UT-Dallas, she should be able to have the record and recommendations to go to a top graduate program.</p>

<p>I would agree with Northstarmom. It does not help to begin one's career with a large debt load.</p>

<p>One of my best friends decided to go to UTD over several prestigious schools (including Stanford) and take advantage of the McDermott scholarship.</p>

<p>Unless there is a specific major that interests your daughter and is not available at UTD, the choice is very simple: Jump at the opportunities offered at UTD. </p>

<p>With the financial support of TI, UTD is a "hot" school that has become a worldwide leader in several areas. What it may lack in "campus life" is overshadowed by the benefits of a smaller campus and MUCH better housing that would be available at Berkeley. UTD is located in the middle of a technological Shangri-La and is a school that has yet to receive the full credit it deserves. </p>

<p>Imagine what $80,000 will do for subsidizing summer travel and future graduate school.</p>

<p>PS You can also compare the "expansion" plans available to Berkeley with what is proposed at UTD. <a href="http://www.utdallas.edu/masterplan2003/index.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.utdallas.edu/masterplan2003/index.html&lt;/a> . I would pay special attention to the accomodations at Cal, student body, and the quality of life and safety in general.</p>

<p>I'm from TX, and since UT Dallas is part of the UT system, her diploma shows UT. Who cares which one? You're talking a huge amount of debt, way too much. And if she doesn't like it there, she could transfer to Austin later on. Since it's the same system, couldn't she keep her scholarship? Check into it.</p>

<p>Don't take on that debt! My D is a soph. at a third-tier state university that is out-of-state for us. We are able to pay our entire portion of the cost from our savings due to her scholarship there. It isn't the greatest college but she loves it there now, and she is an academic star there, getting lots of attention. All her professors know who she is and she has had high-quality professors, no TAs, and only a couple of larger classes. There are big benefits to being a bigger fish in a smaller pond, and if the cost is free...I can't see much contest. We are so relieved that she can graduate debt-free as she is looking at graduate or medical school. I think the advantages of a smaller, less well-known school are downplayed. It can work to a student's advantage.</p>

<p>Xiggi:</p>

<p>Cal is extremely safe, and while housing is not guaranteed for four years, kids don't have to live on the streets. </p>

<p>OP: Definitely not worth that kind of debt. Quite frankly, I'm surprised that any non-wealthy kid would apply to Berkeley from OOS, since merit aid for OOS is essentially non-existant in our bluest of blue states.</p>

<p>Bluebayou, thanks for correcting my -biased- viewpoint. I understand that there is latent crime everywhere. Children are abducted inside a Walmart and citizens can be mugged 1/2 a block away from a police station. </p>

<p>I thought that there had been several discussions on safety in and around Berkeley, and that the housing and food services had received less than glorious marks. </p>

<p>Before posting I made a quick check to find the latest news. Here's the result of my query for "housing": </p>

<p><a href="http://www.dailycal.org/search_results.php?search_string=Housing&submit.x=4&submit.y=6%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.dailycal.org/search_results.php?search_string=Housing&submit.x=4&submit.y=6&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>
[quote]
Female Student Raped in Foothill Residence Hall Room
2005-04-20-News
A female UC Berkeley student was raped in her room in a Foothill residence hall early Thursday, police said yesterday. </p>

<p>Mmm ... Housing Crunch
2005-04-20-Opinion
When I was your age (assuming the second person singular pronoun in that clause is 18 years old), Berkeley was just emerging from an acute case of Housing Crunch. The Dot Com bubble had only recently burst, rents were still kept sky high by a secret coalition of snarling mustachioed landlords, and the university hadn?t developed any new student housing since they had converted crumbling, asbestos-ridden army barracks into crumbling, asbestos-ridden apartments under the adorable moniker ?UC Village.?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>That said there is nothing like real life accounts.</p>

<p>We are facing a similar dilemma. My son has been admitted to ASU Barrett honors college with a full ride merit scholarship. However he loves Pomona, which gives us nothing. We could help with some of the cost, but he would end up with 60 to $80000 debt to go to Pomona. He was not that impressed with ASU, but he is really struggling with this decision to choose between a school that he loves and feels is a perfect match for him vs. the financially more sensible option, but a huge school that despite the honors college rhetoric of "a small school within a big research university" would not give him the same experience as Pomona. This is a classic heart vs. head conflict. I personally think ASU makes more sense and will give him better options down the road, with intact savings and a debt free start to the rest of his life, but as a parent I can't push too hard because that tends to backfire.</p>

<p>xiggi:</p>

<p>when one hear bureacracy at Cal (and UCLA), they immediately think of registration, et al. But, in fact, its the office of housing services that IS a bureacracy -- the others are tame in comparison. The good news is that kids only need to play the game once or twice a year. The Office tries hard, but one has to be a go-getter to make it work -- I guess the thought is that it builds character. :)</p>

<p>Acquaintance rape occurs everywhere, unfortunately, and most times goes unreported.</p>

<p>hey, everyone takes out student loans. and after a year or two, she'd be an in state resident in CA, right?</p>

<p>poschfam</p>

<p>We faced the same dilemma 4 years ago.result? D is graduating 5/12 summa cum laude from Barrett Honors at ASU after an outstanding 4 years.Debt Free.Many outstanding opportunties. Senior Honors Thesis with outstanding graduate faculty advisor,who also guided her very successfully in the grad school admission process. Honors only summer study abroad with 6 credits.Extra layer of counseling.Graduate level library privileges.Early registration.A determined effort (with results) of getting the grads into professional and graduate school and helping them win prestigious national awards -like Fullbrights- Interesting cultural opportunities on and off campus. A physical setting beyond compare (if you enjoy the desert and can get used to wearing flip flops all year long).The chance to enjoy those "large U" activities you thought you wouldn't even pay attention to..like football. Barrett's makes ASU manageable.PM me if you want more info!</p>

<p>It can make a difference who has the debt- the grad or the parent? If such big debts are to be incurred by the student then I see it this way- College is (among other things)to enrich ones life, and help increase the earnings afterward. I really doubt that Berk would initially offset extra college costs with new job earnings- considering the debt payback. So, if college should improve one's standard of living, what better standard of living can one have if he has 80k in debt to pay back the day he graduates- compared to the same degree, but no debt? Think how much less a person could earn and yet net more, if he didn't have that debt!</p>

<p>Theoretically, 80k debt paid back in ten years, plus int, might be roughly $9500 yr for 10 yrs. A person could probably take a job for 10k less a yr right after college, and still come out ahead- and have more spending money all of those 10 yrs.</p>

<p>I look at it a little differently. If you were to take out the $80k in debt anyway, would the best use of that $80k be the incremental educational advantage in Berkeley over UT? In other words, is Berkeley better than UT plus a year and a half of med school? UT plus two years of study and travelling around the world? UT plus unpaid internships for the next four years, plus three trips to Europe? UT plus five years saving the world in Africa?</p>

<p>Put this way, except for folks with lots of money to burn, it is rare that a higher ranked institution minus $80k will do better than a reasonably good but lower ranked one, unless the lower-ranked one will make the student unhappy/be a bad "fit", the lower ranked school is not likely to get the student where s/he wants to end up (i.e. grad school), or the parent/student is willing to consider spending the extra loan money on the differential between the schools, but can't figure out a way they'd be willing to spend it on anything else.</p>

<p>All of a sudden, the prestige institutions look less attractive EDUCATIONALLY. Different folks will come to different conclusions, of course. But what this kind of thinking forces one to do is to stop focusing so much on the school, and focus more on the education, experience, aspirations, and future of the student.</p>

<p>School costs go up every year. F+40 K, S+42K, J+44K, S+46 so instead of 80 K its actually 92K. Plus books, right? Which adds several hundred per year.
Your Texas school system seems wonderful. Still...does your child feel he would be unhappy there? How strong are his sentiments? Does he expect to go on to grad school?</p>

<p>One more comment regarding unreported rapes and other crimes. I didn't appply to Berkeley in the 70's due to my concerns regarding rape crimes; so instead went to Santa Cruz - just as many problems, just not reported. My freshman year was the year of the mass murderers in Santa Cruz. </p>

<p>As for the housing crisis in Berkeley; I believe it has eased considerably. The coop system is a relative bargain. My S was in the dorms this year, and coops next - room and board will be just over 50% of what we paid this year.</p>

<p>One other question would be whether your D plans to continue her education after getting her BA/BS. That might be a factor in today's decision. good luck</p>