<p>eh, i’ve always thought it would be weird to approach someone and say, “OMG! i know you from college confidential!” same goes for facebook, et cetera. even i’ve gathered some background info about people from reading posts online, i get to know them in person without that odd introduction.</p>
<p>While I would be willing to bet that you have never said “OMG!”, my curiosity will just have to go unanswered.</p>
<p>Good luck with all of your on campus experiences. </p>
<p>Our son, a W&L sr. with a full tuition scholarship (would now be the Johnson, but was the George Washington Honor Scholarship in his day), has had the time of his life, inside the classroom and out. While some of his best experiences are ones that he wanted to pursue at the time he applied, others have been surprises or changes reflecting his growth and the amazing opportunities he has been offered/created. In fact, three of his highest non-academic priorities are activities that, at the time he was applying, he would never have contemplated for his future. IMHO, that is what college is for.</p>
<p>When he was at W&L for the scholarship competition, he “just knew” it was the school for him – even though he originally wanted to apply ED to Wake Forest and was also a Jefferson Scholar finalist at UVa. Although he has “given back” to the school through his activities, W&L has given him far more than he could ever repay. He jokes that he doesn’t want to hear the word senior because he doesn’t want to leave in May. But when he does, he will be more than ready – and he will always and forever be a General. </p>
<p>So be glad to go without your parents, look around, talk to people, go out at night. And then make a decision based on whether you believe W&L is for you – even if you decide to change your major and/or your activities. Best wishes that, whatever you decide, it will turn out as well for you as it has for our son.</p>
<p>Esquette - While our son views it as less competition, my biggest concern is the 80% Greek. Any input on what life is like for the independents? Also, what was your son’s major?</p>
<p>My son began with intentions of biology, but is graduating from the Williams School with a BS in bus admin. His “academic passions” changed after taking classes, and this is the perfect fit for him. Something he would never have known based on his all college prep hs curriculum. </p>
<p>He is “Greek” and expected to be at the time he applied. He has loved it, making friends that we expect he will have for life. But he has friends who are independents as well, who are welcome at and do attend Greek social events. And he has many friends who thought they would not “go Greek” when they came to W&L, but ended up happily doing so. </p>
<p>One thing that makes W&L’s Greek life very different from bigger schools is that it is truly an “open” system. There are no closed parties. And with 80% of a small population participating, as a practical matter you have friends from many diff houses, incl. independents. Plus the Traveller safe ride system makes it possible for all students to visit whichever houses are having events – parties are registered and put onto the route that evening. One of many things W&L does very very well.</p>
<p>Our son would also pursue Business Admin. at Williams. Did you son participate, or know anyone that did, in the New York Program? Our son would major in Finance at UVa and hopes to work on Wall Street after graduation. Your input is very appreciated.</p>
<p>I’m sure he does, but I don’t know which ones. Our son likes the marketing/advertising side. Obviously both schools are top notch if finance is his interest. W&L is extremely well-represented on and connected to Wall Street, as you undoubtedly have discovered by now. </p>
<p>Sounds like you are focusing on the right things, looking at what he would actually do during his four yrs and who he would be doing it with. Cannot speak for UVa experience, but it’s been our experience that what W&L says about valuing student-professor relationships is, if anything, an understatement. I recall my son’s bf from home asking him, after their freshmen yrs at W&L and a big state school, respectively, whether his profs knew his name. He laughed and answered: “Yup - they know my brothers’ names.” (He wasn’t kidding. At the time, the brothers were in hs and ms.) Since then, it’s only gotten better. </p>
<p>Our son has been taught and mentored by many profs with comparable commitment to their students, incl. his favorite guru in the C School. If you want that kind of access/relationships, then W&L is a great choice.</p>
<p>Our son was first attracted to W&L because it is a top LAC with a C School. Before W&L requested to be dropped from the Princeton Review’s Best Colleges, their “Profs Interesting” and “Profs Accessible” ratings were 99 each, the highest by far of any of the schools he was looking at.</p>
<p>I had our son read your posts. Thanks for the help.</p>
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<p>what do you mean by this? how does being 80% greek make W&L less competitive?</p>
<p>To the extent that Greek life is a distraction, our son believes that there would be less “competition”. From College *******: “Living in the fraternity house was the single most fun experience at W&L and also something I’d never want to do again. My grades sucked, but it didn’t matter, because there was always something to do, always something going on for you to put your work off even longer. It was a blast, but I’d never do it again.”</p>
<p>Whether 80% greek makes W&L less competitive is a different question.</p>
<p>I can assure you that there are plenty of non-Greek distractions as well! In fact my son spends more time on his non-Greek ECs than he does on Greek activities. Remember at W&L it’s old school style, with houses that truly qualify as mansions, house mothers, chefs who cook three meals a day six days a week, so eating for example might count as a Greek activity, but one you are going to do anyway.</p>
<p>W&L is filled with students who are extremely high achieving academically while at the same time extremely social/involved. That’s who thrives at W&L – that kid who “did it all” in high school, and I’m not just talking about doing things to go on the resume, but things that take big chunks of time and commitment, on top of the full AP courseload in which he got straight A’s. Those are the students who excel on the Hill and love every minute of it notwithstanding the demanding pace. My son gets to campus by 9:30 and typically has classes, mtgs, ECs, etc that keep him there until 11 pm every night. So having some social time to look forward at mealtime and weekends and late nights is essential to his balance and happiness. And it surely has not hurt his GPA at all. As always, it comes down to the combination of talent, discipline, and hard work. Hard play isn’t bad until and unless it interferes with those. But, honestly, that’s part of the life lesson that college is for as well.</p>
<p>Btw historically Greeks actually have a higher avg GPA than non-Greeks, though that prob reflects that freshmen have lower GPAs. Still, the brothers my son lives with are a mighty impressive group of young men with excellent GPAs and bright futures – any parent would be pleased to claim any one of them, even if there may (will) be some party sludge on the floor when we visit ;)</p>
<p>The Greek system at W&L has a minimum GPA requirement.</p>
<p>All of the students who either were Greek but had to drop out due to GPA issues or couldn’t join a srat because of GPA issues are therefore considered independent. So it’s not surprising that the independent GPA is lower than the Greek GPA!</p>
<p>Does that mean that initiated members of sororities and fraternities are included in the independent GPA if their GPA drops below the threshold? </p>
<p>I’m not sure there’s much of a difference bw overall Greek and non-Greek GPAs; the bigger GPA differences seem to be among individual Greek houses, right?</p>
<p>My understanding is that if the GPA of initiated members drops below the threshold, they are no longer considered members so they are by definition “independents.” At that point, their GPA gets lumped in with that of the independents. This results in the independents’ GPA being lower than it otherwise might be.</p>
<p>BTW, I’m NOT trying to make an issue of this. <smile> I’m just mentioning that the independent GPA includes the GPA of not only the freshmen but also some of the weakest students! :-)</smile></p>
<p>Yes, I believe that the GPA does vary considerably between the Greek houses.</p>
<p>in the country…UVA is up there. higher ranked than UNC</p>
<p>cockatiel - From your experience, are there independents that choose to be so and what is life like @ W&L for them?</p>
<p>@esquette–i’m glad to hear such a positive review of greek life at W&L! if i attend i will rush for a sorority, and most of the reactions i’ve gotten from friends have been negative. so it isn’t like the stereotype?</p>
<p>I’m in exactly the same predicament as Tres. In the right context, I would really love having a sisterhood and group to be a part of. However, “party girl” would probably be the last term my friends would use to describe me…do you think that I might fit in to a W&L sorority?</p>
<p>At W&L there are independents who chose to be independents and who did not participate in rush as freshmen. Some of the independent rush week activities this year were very well attended!</p>
<p>I’m not quite sure how to answer the “what is life like for them” question. The independents do have friends and a social life :-), but it is just not Greek-centered.</p>
<p>From what I have heard and seen over the past 4 yrs, cockatiel is absolutely right. There will always be plenty of non-Greek activities. Remember that the vast majority of ECs have nothing to do with Greek life, and there is so much more to do in college than you could ever imagine in high school. ECs include, in addition to the obvious athletic teams, academically oriented groups (e.g., in the C School - Williams Investment Socy, Student Consulting Group, Advertising Socy, etc), service oriented experiences (e.g., Campus Kitchen, Shepard Program, volunteer tutoring, etc), arts (a cappella and dance groups, theater, photography, etc), and school directed activities (newspaper, Traveller, tour guides, Mock Convention, student govt groups). These ECs will be populated with Greek and non-Greek students, so they offer cross-pollination among independents and students from all Greek houses, with the opportunity for friendships along the way. My son spends a lot of time with a cross-section of students who have become valued friends in the course of his ativities – more time than he does on frat-related activities. And he does most of his school work in the C school, typically with fellow C school students, regardless of Greek affiliation. </p>
<p>But he lives with frat brothers off-campus, as is typical for most W&L jrs and srs. Sophs often live in the frat house, but that may vary from house to house. I guess what percentage of time is in Greek-related activities depends on how you count the just hanging out at home time. The difference if you are independent is that you may live with other independents and/or members of a Greek house. But it’s still a group of your choice, with the same opps for friendships through academics and ECs. And remember that Greek parties are open to all students, including ndependents. Only “invitation only” events like formals are not open. And students really do go to other houses - my son can and does go to parties thrown by members of other frats. </p>
<p>As for sororities, I obviously have less direct experience, but have heard mostly positive things through my son’s friends. There are more sisters in each one bc there are only six. And there are houses for all types of girls, so don’t let that worry you. As in picking your college, pick the one where you will be happiest, not the one that might be “higher” on someone else’s list. Seems to me (just my impression) that rush for girls can get dramatic, but that’s only one week or so, and after that pledging is a breeze and girls end up happy with their houses. Visited a sorority house and it could have been a designer showcase, seriously amazing. Food was exceptional, and that apparently was typical of what the students get.</p>
<p>I guess we’ve hijacked this thread toward Greek life – def not my intention bc, although it’s been a wonderful part of my son’s W&L experience, there is so much more to the story of his almost four yrs. Yes, W&L can be a great place to go Greek if that is for you, but Greek activities are definitely not essential to building a busy and happy campus life. I think of one young man who has been my son’s friend since soph yr, who is independent and incredibly busy and spectacularly successful and happy. We would not be surprised to see him become dean of W&L someday!</p>