<p>Northeastern University received the 2nd most applications of any private university in the country last year, yet the geniuses at Forbes have them ranked as #534th best college in the country. Why? Because most NEU kids don't graduate in four years.</p>
<p>Anyone who has ever heard of Northeastern knows their greatest strength and calling card is their co-op program. Internships are all the rage at colleges now, but Northeastern pretty much invented them and has been doing them longer and better than anyone. Most NEU students graduate in 5 years, with 2 or 3 six-month co-op experiences under their belt, and NEU is #2 in the country in graduate job placement. Students don't pay tuition while on co-op. </p>
<p>
[quote]
“The Forbes ranking is deeply flawed because it turns Northeastern’s greatest strength, [the] co-op, into a weakness,’’ Northeastern spokesman Michael Armini said in a statement.</p>
<p>Forbes special projects editor Michael Noer said in an e-mail that the magazine had to select standard data points to make comparisons, or “we wouldn’t actually be ‘comparing’ anything. Another way of stating this is that our rankings value completing school in four years.’’
[/quote]
</p>
<p>This is exactly why most rankings have to be viewed with a big grain of salt. They attempt to compare apples and oranges - and sell magazines while doing it.</p>
<p>Since the standard for graduation at NEU is 5 years, and they only charge tuition for 4 year's worth of classes, why couldn't Forbes have used the 5 year rate for NEU? (And made the same adjustment for any other college that isn't a 4 year standard school?)</p>
<p>(For disclosure purposes, I do not have any kids at NEU, nor am I nor anyone in my family an NEU alum.)</p>
<p>Actually, digging further into this list, I might have to change my opinion. Perhaps I DO like this list: they ranked my alma mater, Lafayette, at #33 and our arch-rival, Lehigh, at #124. :p</p>
<p>Yeah, they certainly ignore a lot, and their methods include 17.5% based on ratemyprofessor.com ratings; which, in addition to being highly flawed, isn’t even used by all schools.</p>
<p>They certainly seem to favor LACs over universities in their combined ranking. If you’re interested, here’s some of the Forbes list broken into categories like US News does:</p>
<p>Forbes Top 50 Universities</p>
<ol>
<li>Princeton University</li>
<li>Stanford University</li>
<li>Harvard University</li>
<li>University of Chicago</li>
<li>Massachusetts Insitute of Technology</li>
<li>Northwestern University</li>
<li>California Institute of Technology</li>
<li>Yale University</li>
<li>University of Notre Dame</li>
<li>Brown University</li>
<li>Duke University</li>
<li>Boston College</li>
<li>Rice University</li>
<li>Dartmouth College</li>
<li>Tufts University</li>
<li>Columbia University</li>
<li>Emory University</li>
<li>University of Virginia</li>
<li>Georgetown University</li>
<li>College of William and Mary</li>
<li>Cornell University</li>
<li>University of Pennsylvania</li>
<li>Vanderbilt University</li>
<li>University of California - LA</li>
<li>Santa Clara University</li>
<li>University of California - Berkeley</li>
<li>University of North Carolina (Chapel Hill)</li>
<li>Wake Forest University</li>
<li>Boston University</li>
<li>Brandeis University</li>
<li>University of Michigan - Ann Arbor</li>
<li>Carnegie Mellon University</li>
<li>Johns Hopkins University</li>
<li>University of Dallas</li>
<li>Pepperdine University</li>
<li>University of Redlands</li>
<li>Washington University in St Louis</li>
<li>Saint Johns University</li>
<li>Trinity University</li>
<li>Loyola University Maryland</li>
<li>Villanova University</li>
<li>Colorado School of Mines</li>
<li>Southern Methodist University</li>
<li>Lehigh University</li>
<li>Clark University</li>
<li>University of California - Davis</li>
<li>University of Rochester</li>
<li>University of Washington - Seattle</li>
<li>Loyola Marymount University</li>
<li>University of Florida</li>
</ol>
<p>Forbes Top 50 LACs</p>
<ol>
<li>Williams College</li>
<li>US Military Academy</li>
<li>Amherst College</li>
<li>Haverford College</li>
<li>US Air Force Academy</li>
<li>Claremont McKenna College</li>
<li>Carleton College</li>
<li>Swarthmore College</li>
<li>US Naval Academy</li>
<li>Wellesley College</li>
<li>Colby College</li>
<li>Pomona College</li>
<li>Vassar College</li>
<li>College of the Holy Cross</li>
<li>Union College</li>
<li>Colorado College</li>
<li>Bates College</li>
<li>Lafayette College</li>
<li>Centre College</li>
<li>Wesleyan University</li>
<li>Whitman College</li>
<li>Bowdoin College</li>
<li>Middlebury College</li>
<li>Scripps College</li>
<li>Kenyon College</li>
<li>Harvey Mudd College</li>
<li>Bucknell University</li>
<li>DePauw University</li>
<li>Bryn Mawr College</li>
<li>Smith College</li>
<li>Sewanee: University of the South</li>
<li>Barnard College</li>
<li>Dickinson College</li>
<li>Hillsdale College</li>
<li>Davidson College</li>
<li>Connecticut College</li>
<li>Lawrence University</li>
<li>St Lawrence University</li>
<li>Virginia Military Institute</li>
<li>Wheaton College</li>
<li>Grinnell College</li>
<li>Skidmore College</li>
<li>Hamilton College</li>
<li>Oberlin College</li>
<li>Wofford College</li>
<li>Rhodes College</li>
<li>Westmont College</li>
<li>St. Olaf College</li>
<li>Knox College</li>
<li>Trinity College</li>
</ol>
<p>Well at least they got Lafayette/Lehigh right!!</p>
<p>I have never paid much attention to Forbes rankings. Most people look at US News - I think they make more sense - but still - it’s just one piece of the puzzle - not anything to take too seriously or get upset about.</p>
<p>Good point about the rankings, Laf. Like everything in the college search process, you can only use rankings (and the related descriptions) as data points along the way.</p>
<p>USNews and World Report ranks Northeastern at #69. Quite a difference between 70th and 534th. And Princeton Review ranks them 1st for “Best Internships/Career Services” because of the co-ops that add on that extra year!</p>
<p>I think it’s hilarious/frustrating that NU gets dinged for one of the prime reasons that students choose to attend. </p>
<p>Well, no matter the ranking, our son loves Northeastern University and so do we. Go, Huskies!</p>
<p>I agree OP.
While we dont have anyone connected to Northeastern either…it has excellent co-op programs and it is one of the draws/strengths that people choose NEU so that they can get real solid work experience.</p>
<p>Frankly we didn’t put stock in any of the “rankings” after learning about the “dark” side/politics and how stats are tweeked to generate #s from a friend who is an advertising attorney.</p>
<p>The rankings are a joke and IMO–have been for many years. However, they’ll always be parents and students who buy into the whole idea of rankings.</p>
<p>The number of apps isn’t always indicative of the quality of a college or its students; it’s more about the rep or something else desirable. You fill out the forms, pay the fee. I have wondered how many are drawn to Northeastern by it’s location? Nothing against them, the school is increasing in strength each year. Agree the co-op pgm, is great- but, I actually can’t recall any recent poster who was interested in N and even mentioned the co-op (and not even hs kids I know in my area.) ??</p>
<p>And, yes: annual reports of college rankings sell plenty of magazines…make plenty of money for the people behind them. Same for all the advice books.</p>
<p>I’m not sure about the Forbes criteria, but I believe in the USN&WR rankings, they go by 6 year grad rates. Not sure if it’s part of the criteria for them though.</p>
<p>lf, I have some theories on why Northeastern has moved up the rankings so quickly. Of course, these are just my ideas, nothing I’ve ever heard from someone associated with Northeastern.</p>
<p>-I do think the location plays a role. We were going to be in the area to see Harvard, so we put Northeastern on our visit list as well. My son absolutely loved the campus and the tour. It really is a lovely campus smack in the middle of city living. I would imagine that happens to people visiting MIT, BU, BC and Tufts as well. </p>
<p>-I think the dropping admission rates at schools ranked higher have helped as well. For example, my son’s first choice was Yale but he was not accepted. He was accepted at American, Brandeis, George Washington, Northeastern and UT Austin but, in the end, Northeastern’s location, co-op program and NMF scholarship swayed him to pick Northeastern.</p>
<p>-Northeastern has done the near impossible with turning a primarily commuter school into a school where almost all freshman live on campus and most upperclassmen live on campus or within walking distance. I’m not sure how they did it but they did.</p>
<p>-Lastly, with the economy in the tank for sometime now, I think parents are more willing to pay for a career-focused school like Northeastern. They want their kids to have 12-18 months of real work experience at graduation and they want a college that has a top ranked career services division for post-graduation.</p>
<p>“I actually can’t recall any recent poster who was interested in N and even mentioned the co-op” - Really? I’m suprised. That’s their big drawing card. I tell people it’s a great school… but they should cross if off their list if not interested in co-op. </p>
<p>I think Northeastern gets a lot of apps because it accepts common app and for some high stats kids it is a safety school (although admission is getting much tougher). And also because it has a good blend of city access and “campus-y” feel. </p>
<p>Back to Ratings. The above discussions show that there is vast variety in Ratings. Still reading through them allows you to see themes, particulairly concentrating on areas that are meaningful to the applicant. Personally I referred to the the Peterson website a lot. I don’t think it had rankings, but it had consistent presentation of info for all colleges… much easier than sifting through info on varying college websites. </p>
<p>I also learned a lot from Naviance (at hs) and Mychances site.</p>
<p>Career services doesn’t mean job placement, it means they have a really good career services office (according the the NEU students who filled out the survey). I believe UF is number one? For job placement, ROI or alumni network may be best, but still wouldn’t be exact.</p>
<p>However, it’s still ridiculous to penalize them for a co-op program that leaves students much better off. Until recently, didn’t US News do the same?</p>
Good point dolorousEdd, and I apologize for my error. I think NEU’s grads have a very high job placement rate though, and a very high number of them end up with jobs they got thru co-op. When I have some free time I’ll peruse their website to find out what “very high” actually is…</p>
<p>I’d definitely agree that the experience from co-op would lead to significantly better than average job placement. I just don’t know of any reliable rankings of job placement, though such a thing would certainly be interesting.</p>
<ol>
<li>The methodology used by Vedder is not only myopic but highly questionable.<br></li>
<li>The ranking for NEU is not a result of one criterion only.</li>
<li>The number of applications is a rather meaningless datapoint without context. The honor for most applications is a battle between New York University, Tulane, and, according to the numbers above, NEU. Are the admissions rates and yield comparable? And how does this compare to Phoenix U.?<br></li>
<li>Perhaps NEU students should all submit their names to the Who is Who and fill the ratemyprofessor with glossy reviews. That’d work! </li>
</ol>
<p>
</p>
<p>Again, the Forbes ranking is highly flawed, but so is your conclusion. There is nothing that supports that Forbes favors LAC any more than USNews does. Fwiw, why would you assume that a combined top 40 colleges/universities USNews would be drastically different as far as schools listed, especially when removing the asinine Peer Assessment.</p>
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</p>
<p>Princeton Review makes the Forbes “rankings” look legtimate. Their “students’ surveys” are a complete joke. Vote early and often is the motto that defines the PR.</p>