<p>General question: How do colleges view a gap year between HS and College if it is used to study with a specific teacher? </p>
<p>Is it better to wait to apply?
Is it better to start at a local school taking general courses and apply as a music major transfer?
Is it the wrong decision?</p>
<p>I realize that every situation is different but I'm looking to gather general opinions so I can look at this from many different angles.</p>
<p>Thanks!</p>
<p>Just be aware that if you do take general courses with an eye to transfer:
a) frequently music classes do not transfer from institution to institution
b) in many BM programs there is a specific sequence of classes and you might still
be going to college for an extra year or semester. This is especially true of a schools
music theory classes.</p>
<pre><code> I would review the transfer policies of schools you (or your student) are looking at.
</code></pre>
<p>That being said, a year of serious healthy practice and purposeful study with a good teacher, never hurt anyone.</p>
<p>I’ll start by saying that I have nothing to base this on but if you continue to read this, my opinion is that I can’t imagine a gap year would hurt. Voices mature slowly so it could be an advantage. You have to be careful not to take too many classes so you’ll be considered a transfer. I don’t know why working, taking a class or two and seriously focusing on voice lessons wouldn’t be a good plan.</p>
<p>Edited after musica’s post. I agree that taking music classes might be a waste of time but if you think you will go to a school with gen ed requirements, you might be able to knock a couple off.</p>
<p>BeezMom—a question that you really need to ask yourself and your daughter is:
Is she focused and does have a serious sense of purpose that will enable her to make that gap year worthwhile?</p>
<p>Musicamusica - That is a terrific question. When her voice teacher recommended this earlier, I vetoed it because I thought D needed the environment of a music school to understand the work ethic required (cpmpetition is often a good thing). However, now we’re dealing with her teacher’s teacher - and this person has a serious background. It was a huge wakeup call for my daughter. She’s always had this dream (there have been many other posts about wanting to be a musician vs. needing to be one - she’s always been in the need category), but today’s discussion simultaneously made her realize 1)it’s possible, and 2) it’s going to take serious work.<br>
Thank you for the input on classes - I thought about having her apply to a University close to this teacher, and doing general classes, but perhaps waiting tables for a while would be an excellent learning experience and help her understand exactly what sacrifices a career in performance would most like take.</p>
<p>Ok, since you want to look at this from different angles…</p>
<p>Are you considering the gap year as a fallback if offers to desired programs do not come through, or considering the idea of skipping a year before applying to vocal performance programs? </p>
<p>When I think about a gap year for a prospective performance major, I generally view it as a plan b if the student does not get accepted into desired programs or maybe if the student decides to be a performance major too late to prepare repertoire for auditions or to get the prescreening cds made. </p>
<p>I also can imagine a prospective performance major deciding to take a gap year before applying is the student feeling a need/strong desire to take a break from school, feeling ambivalent or not confident about doing the performance major, etc.</p>
<p>Or maybe this idea to take a gap year could come from teacher feedback/suggestion.</p>
<p>Unless the student needs a break before college or is unsure about the performance major or unless knowledgable people have said that the student needs more time to be competitive for desired programs, I would wonder if going through the application/audition process itself could be a good experience, with the gap year as plan b if student is not accepted into desired programs. I could be totally wrong about that, others probably know better about this. </p>
<p>One more thing. I have heard that there may be a tendency for transfer students to be offered less scholarship/financial aid than new freshman students. Again, not sure if that is really true or if that matters in your situation, but I would want to know about that too. </p>
<p>From the little I know, I would pay attention to that suggestion by cartera45 that college credits obtained during the gap year be gen ed rather than music courses and that the student not take so many courses that he/she is considered a transfer student.</p>
<p>Oops, sorry this post crossed with posts by musicamusica and Beezmom so it is probably useless, but since I already posted it, I will leave it here.</p>
<p>Also to consider is the effect of a “transfer” on potential merit and talent aid. May limit some options, as policies are often different in awarding these monies to transfers versus freshmen. </p>
<p>If money is not a concern, then taking general ed credits may be smart just to try and knock some basics off the schedule. </p>
<p>I agree the music credits would most likely be a waste of time if done for credit (and transfer hopes). Having said that, there is no learning that is every wasted. </p>
<p>There may be some other specific advice within these as well:</p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/672731-info-gap-year.html?highlight=gap+year[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/672731-info-gap-year.html?highlight=gap+year</a>
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/345925-musical-gap-year.html?highlight=gap+year[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/345925-musical-gap-year.html?highlight=gap+year</a></p>
<p>Also with a gap year, she should be taking intensive language classes—maybe show up to auditions with a fluency in Italian and/or German.</p>
<p>rigaudon - this would NOT be a fallback. The teacher we’re talking about believes that the audition CD is permanent and should not be undertaken until one is truly ready. She’s looking at scholarships and acceptance to higher level programs. </p>
<p>There is no ambivalence on D’s part, and she has enough repetoire. Her regular voice teacher has been preparing her diligently. This isn’t the issue at all. Nor has the issue been deciding too late.</p>
<p>The issue is more that a more advanced teacher has just started working with her, and wants to develop her further before she goes “public” for lack of a better word.</p>
<p>Musicamusica (can I call you MM for short?) that is exactly what I was thinking. She’s taking AP french this year, so that one is taken care of. She speaks/sings German beautifully, but has no idea what she’s saying. and Italian…well that goes without saying. I was thinking that those would be the most transferable credits. If we add Piano classes, could those be with a private teacher, or should they be at a local Comm. college? </p>
<p>Crazy, crazy week.</p>
<p>Re: piano lessons…can you find a good private piano teacher?? When you go the VP performance route you have to pass a paino proficiency before graduating (sometimes before advancing in the program)…that’s really what they care about…so if she goes in and tests into level 2 …great you have saved credits she can use for something else…If she takes the lessons at a community college then she would have college credits and then might be viewed as a transfer student…so??? </p>
<p>Have you thought about the insurance issue…she won’t be a full time student…does that matter anymore?</p>
<p>I think I only have to justify the insurance after 19 - which gives us the gap year for health coverage. Again, something I’m looking into.</p>
<p>Maybe I’m getting old, but I am losing perspective in this thread- can we start over, please? I’ll try to say what I’m getting from this, and BeezMom, would you please correct me and state what I am missing?
Your D is a rising senior in HS and is hoping to be a VP major. Up to just recently,things were heading toward preparing her pre-screening CD and applying to colleges. OK, then what happened? Did D’s teacher ask to have another teacher listen to her and offer an opionion? Then teacher #2 said that D isn’t “ready” and thinks she should study with her for a year and then apply? If I’ve followed the flow chart correctly, WHY did her teacher bring someone else into the mix and is that second person still actively engaged in preparing students for entrance into college? How does your D feel about the idea of pushing things back a year? How does her orgininal teacher feel? You mention that the new teacher is “more advanced”- does that mean that the original teacher hasn’t prepared students for conservatory/music school entrance auditions?
Is your D’s voice undergoing a “Change” of fach or is something else radical going on? My D’s voice underwent a complete tranformation about 18 months ago, so I know that can be disturbing and cause the student to have to stop, regroup and take on new rep.
What brought me up short in your posts was when you said that the new teacher “wants to develop (her) further before (she) goes public”. Can you please explain? Is your D ready to audition with favorable results or isn’t she? It really boils down to that, at least IMHO. Your D is a soprano, there are tons of them- that’s just the way it is. There isn’t a lot of scholarship money being tossed around for them, fact, and most of us can honestly tell you that’s the way it is.We don’t like to hear it, but it’s something we had to face. So,that makes me think that taking another year and preparing more and more, isn’t going to make much difference, UNLESS your D isn’t ready at all now. In that case, you and she have to go back to square one and figure out what needs work and if it reasonable to expect that another year will make a radical difference.
Piano- always important and she’ll need it!
Languages- Wait, please, don’t assume that AP French will “take care” of a requirement. That is up to the college and the grade on the exam.The AP language exams are notoriously thought to be the most difficult and they are graded very hard. But, if she does love French and does well, continuing with French Lit courses in college is a great way to maintain fluentcy. Also, spoken and sung languages are different, but the more she learns, the more she can extrapolate and use.
If you could please take the time to “distill” things for us, I think we might be able to offer some more useful ideas. I know that opera-mom and I have just been through audition year and are getting ready to take our girls to college, and there are at least 2 others who post here that are likewise occupied and there are many who have done this before us and have even more wisdom to share. I’m just trying to cut through some of the confusion because you sound as if you have had a real roller-coaster of a week. Take a deep breath, think through things and clue us in!</p>
<p>Okay - here’s the background:
D’s teacher is away at a seminar for 2 weeks, and when you add our 1 week family vacation, she didn’t want D to take that much time off at this critical juncture. So - she arranged for D to take lessons with HER teacher to fill the gap. Teacher’s teacher only teaches select students since she’s retired, but is a former Met Opera Soprano.
So, lessons start very lightheartedly, discussion of how difficult a music career is, etc. Then the actual work started. Not let me hear what you can sing lessons, these were lessons on how to breathe, and other technical basics.<br>
Sometime between the first and end of the second lesson, we moved from “filling in” to “this is what we need to do”. Everyone is very conflicted right now, but this teacher clearly feels that she can bring my daughter to a different level. You have to understand - she doesn’t teach for her living - she achieved that performing and is retired. She teaches where and when she wants to. </p>
<p>So I guess I’m trying to weigh whether it’s more important to jump right into college, or would a year of intense study with a high level teacher help you learn how to protect and use your voice, get you more scholarship dollars, etc., benefit you in the long run. </p>
<p>We’re used to an instant gratification society, and after high school we’re supposed to go to college. At least that’s how it worked with D1, who is busily applying for scholarships to support her Masters study. D1 is a more traditional scholar/athlete - She’s choosing a tough path, but it is more predictable. </p>
<p>D2 was ready to audition for several of the local NJ schools with good reputatioons, and add a few reach schools in, and was planning on saving the next level for Grad school. She was/is ready, had the repetoire, experience, etc. But now she’s wondering if a year of intense study would get her into the next level of school, get her a higher scholarship, or most importantly, teach her how to protect her voice for the long haul. </p>
<p>Ok - AP French exams are probably one of the toughest, but 5 years of French is going to count for at least a semester. Just like her 5 in AP theory will count for a “hello” but not get her out of the theory requirement. </p>
<p>MezzoMama - from your posts, I know your daugher is a great student along with her singing prowess. That makes life a bit easier. D1 has been riding the top of the wave, and the decisions seem easier (I know they cause stress and sleepless nights, but still).</p>
<p>Sorry - there have been a lot of interruptions while I’ve been composing my answer - so to quick answer some points:
No - she’s not going through a vocal change range wise - she’s still a very rich first soprano with a wide range, but she’s had some projection issues this past year. Still, all adjudications have come in as superior and she’s still in the top of the NJ AllState Sop1 group.
I’m not sure what else I need to distill. I’m looking for opinions, while realizing that we ultimately need to make the decision. The info I was looking for was how colleges view auditioning seniors vs. auditioning post seniors, etc.
Yep, it’s been a crazy week - but what do I expect? Senior year is always so interesting!!!</p>
<p>ABlestMom posts here sometimes, and you might be able to PM her. Her daughter decided to take a different major, study with her well respected teacher outside the school and participate in the local opera scene separately. She is doing so quite successfully from what I can tell. She might be able to give you insight into that route. Voice is different, you do not necessary have to major in it to develop. It really is about the teacher. You might take some of the classes needed for graduate school as electives to prepare. A well rounded education is a plus for the student in the future.</p>
<p>To be a successful singer requires good training in a multitude of areas outside of the field of music…languages, drama, literature, history, movement, psychology, art history, to name just a few. The voice develops as it develops, and it depends on the singer, the age, the maturity issues, and there is not telling when or how it will evolved. As a voice teacher with over 40 years of teaching experience with hundreds of singers, I encourage your daughter to plan to continue educating herself next year. Voice lessons with whomever is fine, so long as this is a good teacher who is teaching her how to perceive herself, has a plan, and she is able to use what she is given working on her own. Interaction with other students is a crucial part of education, to develop as a human being, and to learn about others, their cultures, heritage, selves. Your daughter will be very wise if she stays in school and risking a lot if she decides to take a time out to wait to see what happens. IMHO</p>
<p>Having re-read this thread with updates, I see that I based my original opinion on assumed facts. I thought the OP’s daughter had decided late to pursue voice and thought she needed an extra year to get up to speed for auditions. If the decision is based more on the idea that she may be able to get into a more competitive school, then my advice is different. If she is ready to audition and it is believed that she can move into the voice program at one of the local schools with good reputations, I see no reason to delay in the hopes that she can get into a more competitive program. More competitive doesn’t necessarily translate into better when it comes to voice. There are some teachers that undergrads shouldn’t go near at some of the most competitive schools. They have their share of new teachers, old teachers, good teachers and poor teachers - just as other schools do. Going to a conservatory for undergrad isn’t likely to give her a advantage over going to a good local school - as long as she chooses a good teacher. If she plans to go to graduate school, and most VP majors do, then she can decide if a conservatory is the best choice for that. You can drive yourself crazy trying to find a pattern for success when looking at undergrad degrees. She needs to be taught according to where she is now - not where she wants to be or where someone thinks she can be.</p>
<p>Thanks all for the different perspectives. Lorelei - you brought up a point that made me dismiss the gap year plan when her teacher first brought it up - it is time for her to live with other young adults, and adjust to taking care of herself. If she stays at home, it’s too easy to stay in our existing patterns. Also - travel to a different teacher would change her senior year significantly - and I’m not sure I want to take that away from her.<br>
So, its time to meet with some of the voice teachers at the schools she’s interested in, since they’re starting to get back to campus.<br>
Thanks again for giving me a place to get multiple opinions - its helpful when the voices in our own heads are getting confused!!!</p>
<p>Sounds like you’ve made a decision. My first two thoughts as I was reading all of the dialogue: 1. Have you made any trips to schools and sung for teachers at those schools and what feedback did you get? I found those teacher “interviews” to be highly enlightening and informative regarding my daughter’s talent level. 2. I would be hesitant to base such an important decision as a gap year on just a few lessons with this “new” teacher. I’m glad you reached out to the CC community - there’s so many people here with related experience. Perhaps there are some other “experts” in your city or at a nearby university that could provide educated opinions on your daughter’s skill level. If she’s competed in NATS or a Classical SInger audition, then you probably have those connections. Good luck.</p>