<p>Hey everyone, this is the biggest thing keeping me from ND right now. It's been my dream school for the past year up until the last few weeks when I started to realize that going to a Catholic school may not be the best idea for someone who may decide they're ready to come out during the college period. I was wondering if anyone has had experiences with this at Notre Dame and how most students are with this topic. Thanks for any help!</p>
<p>That depends upon what you mean by “come out.” The Catholic Church teachings on homosexuality and homosexual behavior are pretty clear, and Notre Dame strives to follow those teachings. That is why there is no officially-sanctioned gay student organization, and why sexual orientation is excluded from the nondiscrimination clause. If you are looking for a college community in which all members regard homosexual behavior as morally acceptable, you will probably not be happy at Notre Dame. Which is not to say that all or even most of your fellow students will have problems with your sexual orientation. But every year, a group of students petitions the university to change its policies affecting homosexual students, and every year they are turned down. If that would bother you, don’t come here.</p>
<p>The University of Notre Dame is one of the most unfriendly and difficult places for homosexual/bisexual students in the country; it consistently “tops the rankings” in this regard. This is not the case for all other Catholic colleges; in fact, Georgetown frequently makes the list as one of the most gay-friendly institutions.</p>
<p>I’m in a very similar situation, although I knew what the atmosphere was like a while ago. I love ND, but I love Vassar too and will probably end up there. I went to Catholic middle and high school and come from a socially conservative family, so I’m pretty tired of my future relationship being castigated as some unnatural, immoral “behavior.”</p>
<p>Im wondering the same thing. I found some things online that help, but I would still like to know more. </p>
<p>[Gay</a> students discuss coming out at Notre Dame - News - Notre Dame - The Observer - University of Notre Dame and Saint Mary’s College](<a href=“http://www.ndsmcobserver.com/news/gay-students-discuss-coming-out-at-notre-dame-1.2809376]Gay”>http://www.ndsmcobserver.com/news/gay-students-discuss-coming-out-at-notre-dame-1.2809376) </p>
<p>[LGBTQ</a> students discuss campus relationships - News - Notre Dame - The Observer - University of Notre Dame and Saint Mary’s College](<a href=“http://www.ndsmcobserver.com/news/lgbtq-students-discuss-campus-relationships-1.2811160]LGBTQ”>http://www.ndsmcobserver.com/news/lgbtq-students-discuss-campus-relationships-1.2811160) </p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/university-notre-dame/454719-gay-notre-dame.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/university-notre-dame/454719-gay-notre-dame.html</a></p>
<p>The administration does keep turning down the petitions for a university-sanctioned gay student group and inclusion of sexual orientation in the non-discrimination policy, as Claremarie said. ND tends to try to play it pretty close to the official Catholic teaching in most cases, unlike schools like Georgetown that are really more nominally Catholic.</p>
<p>However, I would say that the majority of students and professors have no problems with gay members of the ND community. I believe each year, a majority of them sign the aforementioned petition. That being said, you won’t find a lot of gay political activism or a very large gay community at ND. Also, in addition to those who are accepting of gay people AND homosexual behavior/gay marriage/etc, you will also find a fair amount of people who are accepting of those who come out as gay, but do not believe homosexual behavior is morally acceptable (as the Catechism teaches). However, ND forbids sex for any unmarried student, so everyone is in the same boat in that regard… </p>
<p>If you are looking for a place that actively celebrates homosexuality and gives you a lot of opportunities to be political and vocal about your sexual orientation, then ND is probably not a good choice for you. However, if you are just worried about being honest and open about who are and finding people who will be supportive of you, then I think ND could be a good choice for you if you think it is a good fit otherwise. </p>
<p>You might also want to check out the 4to5 movement, which is going on now at ND. [About</a> 4 to 5 // Progressive Student Alliance // Blog Network // University of Notre Dame](<a href=“http://blogs.nd.edu/psa/4-to-5-movement/about-4-to-5/]About”>http://blogs.nd.edu/psa/4-to-5-movement/about-4-to-5/)</p>
<p>Georgetown is hardly “nominaly” Catholic–it is the oldest and most prestigious Catholic university in the country–but, it is also JESUIT, which has a huge impact in how the institution is different; also it is in DC, which generates more diversity and open-mindedness as well.</p>
<p>Georgetown is absolutely nominally Catholic. Most people aren’t even aware of its Catholic affiliation. While I agree it’s a great school, it’s not the most prestigious Catholic university in the country—Notre Dame is. Georgetown is a great school for a few things and an average school for many things. Notre Dame’s endowment is much larger. This leads to a great deal of spending for things like facilities and student grants. As a science major, this let me travel to Europe to present research at a conference and take my classes in gorgeous, brand new buildings. If you don’t care about politics, what is the advantage of being in DC? ND has a nearby large city as well, and while it’s not the nation’s capital, Chicago is an awesome town. </p>
<p>Sorry for the rant—back to topic.</p>
<p>
Surely you’re joking. What “list” is that?</p>
<p>Georgetown is tolerant of gay students at best. I would hardly call it gay-friendly, and it pales in comparison to colleges like Penn or Yale. The only other elite university that’s as apathetic toward gay students is Johns Hopkins.</p>
<p>Only a couple of years ago a homophobic Georgetown student assaulted a gay student, and the administration did virtually nothing and didn’t even report it to students. There was another incidence that year where students harassed a male student for wearing a pink shirt. Yeah…definitely where I want to attend if I were gay.</p>
<p>The bible teaches clearly, over and over, that having sex between two people of the same sex is gravely sinful, an abomination. At the same time, it is clear it is the physical act that is sinful and not the urge or desire. This is true of all sin no matter what the underlying cause. I would pick the college that helps you to know God better and that can help you grow in holiness. Notre Dame may not be the right choice but there are many catholic colleges that will be tolerant of who you are and that have organized gay and lesbian groups that can help you on your journey of faith.</p>
<p>As a queer person and advocate my gut instinct is to tell you to run screaming for the hills. Being “tolerated” sucks and not being tolerated is downright miserable. It does sound like there’s an existing group of LGBT students and allies, at least enough to petition. If your heart is set, seeking them out might be a good way to find a support system. DignityUSA is also a great Catholic LGBT resource.</p>
<p>^Hippo: Here is one of the “rankings”</p>
<p>[The</a> Best Gay-Friendly Schools - The Daily Beast](<a href=“http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2010/09/12/the-best-gay-friendly-schools.all.html]The”>http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2010/09/12/the-best-gay-friendly-schools.all.html)</p>
<p>There are unfortunate and terrible incidents that occur at every college (yes, even at NYU and Sarah Lawrence) in every city (yes, even in NYC and SF) in which gay students are treated inappropriately and illegally. But I can assure you that Georgetown has done more than any other Catholic college in addressing and supporting gay students, along with the University of San Francisco. </p>
<p>Now, in terms of the most prestigious Catholic college–Georgetown clearly wins when you define prestige as “who wants to be there”–far more applications than Notre Dame, and Notre Dame does EXTREMELY POORLY in recruiting students from the most elite, prestigious schools–look at the college matriculation data for the most prestigious high schools in the country—Exeter, Andover, Choate, St. Paul’s, Thomas Jefferson (in VA), Harvard-Westlake, St. Alban’s, Deerfield, Lawrenceville, etc. Why aren’t those schools sending students to Notre Dame??? One word: Prestige. ND is certainly a Catholic mecca, but it does not have national and international prestige like Georgetown.</p>
<p>^Putsch: Do you actually believe what you write? That "If you don’t care about politics, what is the advantage of being in DC? " Do you not know that the National Institute of Everything is in DC? It’s not a city just for politicos (although the fact that it is the center of politics draws everything else to DC). I worked at the National Institutes of Health as a Georgetown undergrad.–not politics at all. The World Bank, IMF, Naval Observatory, etc. are all in easy reach for Georgetown undergrads. interested in business, science, medicine, health, etc., along with all of the resources for law, politics, international affairs, public policy, etc. DC is an incredible place socially, culturally, professionally, and academically, regardless of your area of interest, and Georgetown undergrad. utilizes the city in every way. I’m sure Chicago had a big impact on your ND experience, right?? Obviously not, because it can’t–it’s too far away to be easily incorporated in to every facet of undergraduate life. Chicago is a great city, but unfortunately, Notre Dame is not in Chicago. The diversity of the city and Georgetown’s embracing and incorporating that diversity also is a big reason why gay students are so comfortable at the school, as oppose to being in a restrictive, hostile environment like they would experience in South Bend and Notre Dame.</p>
<p>When we took a tour of Notre Dame, they were unapologetically Catholic. To the point that some people on the tour asked at the end if they accept non-Catholics. On the tour at Georgetown, the guide kept apologizing for anything Catholic and said that it “really isn’t a Catholic college.” I believe the guide. GT is certainly a prestigious college, but it is certainly not a prestigious Catholic college. And it is certainly not the ONLY prestigious college.</p>
<p>^Do you actually believe that the oldest Catholic college in the country is not Catholic? I do believe many people at Georgetown do apologize for certain Catholic doctrine and want to separate Georgetown from some of the ridiculous and appauling acts of the Catholic church and its doctrine, but that does not change the fact that it is a Catholic college. Just like you said–Notre Dame is unapologetically Catholic–that is the problem–certain aspects of Catholicism deserve being apologetic for.</p>
<p>No, it was the guide at GT that said it really wasn’t Catholic. I’m not being judgmental. In my experience, every person/institution has things that they need to apologize for, but maybe not you or GT.</p>
<p>medman, why such a hater? You have such sandbox mentality with rantings of “my school is better than your school”. I disagree with your assessment that Georgetown is the most prestigious Catholic university in the country, but hey, that is my opinion. I think there is no doubt that ND is more well known. But you say black, I say white. As for Jesuit institutions…BC removed all crucifixes from their classrooms and when Obama spoke at Georgetown he asked that they cover some religious signage and they complied. Really Catholic of them. Surprising for the most prestigious Catholic university in the country! When Obama spoke at ND, he wouldn’t have had the nerve to ask them to cover any symbol that was Catholic. They would never have agreed to that. </p>
<p>[Obama</a> at Georgetown: The mystery of the missing sign - Washington Times](<a href=“Washington Times - Politics, Breaking News, US and World News”>Washington Times - Politics, Breaking News, US and World News)</p>
<p>Medman - What ridiculous and appauling acts of the church and doctrine are you referring to?</p>
<p>@Gobluu - maybe its constant political attack of the LGBT community worldwide? Having a doctrine on sexual conduct is one thing, spending so much time, effort, and resources to restrict rights and dehumanize people in the secular sphere is quite another. Take NOM for example, funded by the Catholic Church. What an utterly disgusting group, that not only has the sole mission of attacking LGBT people but also is racist and uses vile methods to further its objectives.
I was raised Catholic and still am, but it’s teachings/actions on homosexuality and perhaps sex in general I don’t think I will ever be able to agree with, and I know there are many, many Catholics out there who feel similarly.</p>
<p>Medman - I am not an expert on NOM but from reading on the web they are a political group who’s mission is to defend the definition of marraige of being between a man and a woman. I do know that the Catholic church has consistently been in my lifetime one of loving the sinner but hating the sin. This is true of all forms of sin and not just homosexual acts. The old testament, new testament and early church fathers all speak with clarity to the moral evil of homosexuality. It’s not the desire that is evil but the acting on the desire. This is true for all sin, so homosexuality is not unique. I have not seen the church act in anyway out of hate or vileness but I have seen it proclaim the truth and this offends many people. 1 Timothy 3:15 states that “the church is the pillar and foundation of truth” and as such, the church needs to be the light when man walks in darkness. Decisions of “Secular” institutions obviously impact all Catholics and the church has the right to speak out when their voice is needed.</p>