<p>i know notre damn is supposedly an ultra-conservative school; is this really true? are there many gays on campus, and if so, are they well-accepted or are most students closed minded about them? im from chicago and am visiting ND soon and want to know if i should take it into serious consideration if im going to be shunned by the majority of the student body....thanks!</p>
<p>fyi: notre dame was ranked number one on princeton reviews list of least gay-friendly schools...?</p>
<p>You wouldn't get lynched at Notre Dame.</p>
<p>However, I'm sure a few people might not like you.</p>
<p>I know a couple gay people here and it doesn't seem to be a big issue at all. The attitude here is not quite as open as it is at other schools, but for the most part I think people will either be totally OK with it, or they will think homosexual practices are wrong, but will not hold it against you as an individual.</p>
<p>Honestly, ND is not the school for you. I'm from southern california where it's pretty liberal and I would say ND may be the most homophobic place ever. I would say go someplace else. You will be happier. I think a lot of people will tell you that ND students are accepting, but you definitely don't see gay couples out here. Any school where students have to wear "Gay? Fine by me" t-shirts signals some serious dysfunction. ND is a place for a lot of people, but I wouldn't want to be gay and go here.</p>
<p>ND is only conservative in the sense that it is not ultra-liberal. The distribution is truly about 50/50. As far as I can tell, no one's going to care if you're gay or not.</p>
<p>you will not be shunned here I do not believe, but honestly it isn't the most accepting atmosphere either. I think if you are strong in who you are and you want to enact change, this is as good as it gets because the campus has a ways to go. If you are looking for a school which is instantly completely accepting, ND probably isn't the place. If you are comfortable with who you are, however, I think ND will be fine. I really do. I actually have several openly gay friends here and a few not so openly gay.</p>
<p>I'd be pretty leery, if I were in your position. Honestly, I'd think the best way to resolve this is to visit the campus and talk to some real students. I'd particularly try to make some contact with gay students on the campus now, to get a feel for what their experience has been, and if, in retrospect, they feel they've made the right choice. </p>
<p>Back in the 80's, when I was a student with a weekly column in the Observer, I wrote in response to people who had been pretty cruel in their reaction to a gay support group that had advertised in the paper--telling these folks, in essence, they needed to grow up. For a brief stretch, it gained me infamy on campus, but I was used to being controversial, so it didn't much phase me. For a few days, guy friends seen walking with me (I'm female, for those who haven't read my posts) got some catcalls and whistles as if their mere association with the chick who told the gay-bashers to grow up and get a life somehow made them gay. After that, it subsided.</p>
<p>I don't really know what goes on in the dorms, especially the guys dorms, these days. I do my son has told me there's a bunch of kids that wear "Gay? Okay by me!" tee-shirts that sort of hang in their own eclectic crowd. I didn't get the sense they get abused for it, although there are plenty of rolled eyeballs.</p>
<p>If I were openly gay, I'd probably go elsewhere, unless there are facets to the university that would make it worth it. Quite frankly, I don't know that, when push comes to shove, the so-called liberal and tolerant universities have any better relations with gay students in the dorm setting...</p>
<p>I'd sure do my homework and talk to lots of real live students--especially real live gay students--to find out what the score is, before coming on the campus.</p>
<p>if i were a gay person, i probably would not want to go here either. nd's not the most accepting place for alternative lifestyles, moreso because of the administration rather than the students.</p>
<p>Trivia... Minneapolis has one of the biggest gay communities in the US. = my 3 cents</p>
<p>This thread is making me sad. I am a parent, who has no first hand knowledge of Notre Dame, but I think it is unfortunate that still in this day and age you have to ask this question. As a Catholic, and a liberal one, I would hope that Notre Dame would welcome you. Of course, I have no idea, and you need to know the facts. I am going to email a student I know at ND, and see what I can find out as well. But you could also stay the weekend there and get a better idea. I wish you well.</p>
<p>Ok, I received a response from a freshman at Notre Dame, whose opinion I respect. I hope this helps. He said, "personally, I find the majority of the students VERY accepting of just about everything...those who are more conservative tend to just keep their thoughts to themselves and let everybody else go about their business."</p>
<p>I don't think this thread is sad; it is simply honest. The University of Notre Dame is one of few in the country that specifically bans premarital sex in any form. Obviously, this ban is breeched on a daily basis on and off campus, but the university is quite clear in its views. It views premarital sexual relations to be immoral and unacceptable. Reflecting the Catholic Church whose teachings guide its mission, the university also views homosexual relations to be immoral. As it does not condone gay marriage, homosexual behavior is considered immoral in all cases.</p>
<p>I don't think ND is filled with horror stories of homosexuals who are assaulted. In fact, the freshman orientation program deals specifically with the notion of tolerance. It's a fine line to walk, to be certain---one with which ND and the Catholic Church must always struggle. How to love the sinner, while still standing ground on the fact that a given behavior is sinful...</p>
<p>Along those lines, I don't think there are many students who are going to outright harass homosexuals--although it's hard to know how things get in a testosterone-charged dorm setting. If gay students are wanting to flaunt their status, though, then they are going to be bringing up the moral argument, and many students are going to stand up for their beliefs that homosexual behavior is wrong. If it's a part of their identity, I think it would probably be okay. If it is, however, the central part of their identity, they're going to have problems.</p>
<p>This doesn't make me sad at all. Homosexual behavior is immoral--this has been the position of the Catholic Church for all of time. It's not always easy to retain a moral compass in a PC world, but ND somehow manages to do it, even as a part of academia...</p>
<p>Well, that is certainly your opinion, which you are entitled to have. I am a happily married mom of 3 and an attorney who went to Catholic schools all my life. I have found that a healthy majority of the students and parents alike, did not exactly agree with what the nuns might adhere to. Clearly, Catholics world wide differ. Some agree with the vatican on all levels, others don't. For instance, many Catholics disagree on stem cell research, birth control, invitro ferlization, etc. Everyone has their own conscience to live with. If Notre Dame is anything like other Catholic schools I know in the United States, it (meaning more than the administration) isn't as conservative as many might believe. in fact, it has been criticized by some as being too liberal.</p>
<p>I just don't understand why someone who is homosexual and evidently rejects Church teaching on homosexual behavior would have ANY interest in attending Notre Dame. There are plenty of top-rated colleges at which homosexuality is celebrated and embraced, and the teachings of the Catholic Church are marginalized and criticized. Why not go to one of those schools?
Notre Dame is a CATHOLIC college. The university is determined to maintain and enhance its CATHOLIC mission, whether the students like it or not. (The alumni and parents do, and they are paying the bills.) The Catholic Church has consistently taught that homosexual behavior (and premarital sex in general) is seriously sinful, and that teaching is NOT going to change, regardless of the unpopuarity and political incorrectness of that teaching. Those who find that teaching "sad" would be well-advised to study elsewhere, rather than insisting on coming to Notre Dame and then complaining about the "ultra-conservative" student body and the lack of university-sponsored gay and lesbian groups.</p>
<p>And YOU speak for all the Notre Dame parents and alumni?</p>
<p>CMA1, it is true that "Catholics" everywhere disagree on many issues. However, this does not mean that Catholic belief itself has wiggle room just because you call yourself a Catholic and believe something else.</p>
<p>However, that being said, I really don't think it is that big of an issue to be gay at Notre Dame. If you flaunt it and treat it as the main part of your identity, then you will have problems. But if it is just a part of who you are, no one will go out of their way to call you on it. </p>
<p>claremarie- There are many reasons one would want to go to Notre Dame despite their being a homosexual. Homosexuality may not be embraced, but homosexuals are not persecuted either. Notre Dame is a wonderful place and its other attributes may far outweigh the negative. Also, it doesn't sound to me as if caliboi wants to see the Catholic church marginalized and criticized (if you do, please don't come to ND!!!). You don't have to be a Catholic to appreciate Notre Dame. You just have to accept that Notre Dame is a Catholic college and that all students have to deal with the policies that result from this. And a college can still be a good fit even if it has a few imperfections- we all have things we don't like about Notre Dame, but that doesn't change the fact that we love it.</p>
<p>To CMAI -- he who pays the piper calls the tune. ND has a huge endowment because of the extraordinary generosity and loyalty of its alumni. It has an elite reputation because parents, many of whom are also alums, are willing to pay big bucks in order for their children to study there. ND isn't going to risk either its endowment or its reputation to pander to political correctness, which is why the dorms are still single-sex. To take just one example.<br>
To shellzie -- ND is a great school, but all of its strictly academic benefits can be obtained at any number of great schools. Notre Dame's intensely Catholic identity is what makes the school unique. Because Catholic teaching quite rightly condemns homosexual behavior, a homosexual person cannot reasonably expect the university to accept his orientation as natural and normal. Nor should he be surprised if his fellow students, especially his roommates, treat his orientation as an unfortunate disorder rather than something to embrace and celebrate on Gay Pride Day. Those who cannot deal with such reactions without labeling them as "homophobic" or "intolerant" or "ultra-conservative" should do themselves and ND a favor and apply elsewhere.</p>
<p>shellzie2006, I agree with most of what you said. However, the Church just like national governments has evolved over the years. I am sure many years from now, depending upon who becomes Pope, some Church beliefs may change. In my 45 years, I have witnessed changes in many areas including the Catholic Church. I do appreciate your post because you showed the original poster that he/she would not face persecution at Notre Dame. Thank you</p>
<p>Those who attended years of Catholic school should know that it doesn't matter "who becomes Pope" -- the Catholic Church's teachings on faith and morals will not change, which means that the Church will NEVER teach that homosexual behavior is morally acceptable. In this day and age, it is wonderful to see so many young people reject the moral relativism of their parents' generation, and to embrace the teachings of the Church.</p>