General Advice / Critiques of College List, Safety & Target Suggestions

College Search & Selection
1

My goal is to receive some advice to narrow my college list and for some additional target schools.

Context:

Grade: 12

GPA: 3.995 (Unweighted)

Rank: 10/430 (top 1%)

School: Public in Minnesota

Coursework:
All honors / AP

AP Courses Taken:
4 AP Classes

MYPLTW Courses:
Intro to Engineering Design

Other College Level Classes:
College in the Schools Public Speaking
Intro to Computer Programming at a local technical college

Senior Year AP Classes (I might end up taking college level courses through Minnesota’s PSEO system at a community college)
Statistics
Physics
Calc BC
Literature and Composition

I also plan to take higher level computer science courses at the collegiate level through PSEO.

AP Scores:
Biology (No AP Course at school): 3
US History: 5
Awaiting results, but likely fives. (Comp Sci, Lang / Comp, Euro)

MYPTLW EoC:
9/9

ACT w/writing: 34 (English 36, Reading 36, Math 31, Science 32) Writing -10
SAT w/writing: Awaiting Results

I will be taking the following Subject Tests in Aug:
Chemistry
Math Level II

Other Courses: Currently working on a Coursera Machine Learning Course with the institution listed as Stanford.

Extracurriculars / Volunteer Work:

FIRST Tech Challenge Robotics - Began Freshmen Year, currently president (Tiny team, I do everything besides building)
Awards: Some local awards, never advanced to state. lettered
LD Debate - Sophomore year
J/V Top 8 in State, Minneapple J/V Top 16, Lettered. Varsity events next year.
Math Team - Sophomore Year
Not good at it. Only thing notable is I designed and 3D printed their award for the coaches.

I am in our school’s STEM focused career development program.

Extemp Speaking - Junior Year
I regret joining so late, but so far I’ve placed at almost every competition and came close to
qualifying on the state and national levels. Lettered.
School Newspaper - Junior Year
Honor Lettered.
NHS - Sophomore Year

Summary of Volunteering:
~300 Hours Since Freshmen Year

This includes a variety of things including tutoring English-Language-Learner Students; teaching programming to kids for a local museum a couple weeks; planning a large event for young girls to be introduced to robotics and computer programming; an unpaid photography internship with a non-profit; others.

Other Awards:
Student of the Year (AP Comp Sci and AP US History)
National Speech and Debate Association Superior Distinction
South-Suburban-Conference Academic Scholar Award

Goal of Attending College:
I would like to earn a B.A. in computer science. Since I have a strong interest in working in the field of machine learning (either for private companies or in academia - not sure which), I plan to pursue an M.A. or PhD with that specialization in mind.

Finances:

My parents divorced when I still lived in a southern state. Since then, we have moved so that my non-custodial parent lives in a southern state while myself and my custodial parent live in Minnesota. My custodial parent has a rather low income, and my non-custodial parent does not work; however, that non-custodial parent has remarried. Their spouse’s exact income is something I am not privy to, but given that person’s position as a seasoned airline pilot, I expect it to be >= 120k annually, which throws a wrench into aid calculations for many private schools. They do, however, have ~6 children dependent on them. My custodial parent also should have been able to retire by now (theoretically) since they are over 72 years old and receiving Social Security. We do not receive child support. The most I receive is the occasional gift card (like once a year) that amounts to 100 - 500 dollars. Quite substantial for a gift card but more of a blip when it comes to aid and living expenses I should think. Also, I’ve never discussed it directly with my non-custodial parent, but I get the feeling that their marriage is imperfect, and I worry about straining it by asking for college contributions from that parent’s spouse. For example, that parent’s phone number and email address change very frequently, which makes contact semi-unidirectional, and during phone calls, I’ve heard concerns from that parent of electronic spying (mostly keyloggers and network monitoring) performed by her spouse; that parent might just be paranoid, but my few experiences with the spouse from when I was very young involved arguing in a Lowes… Back to finances, the spouse of my non-custodial parent was divorced and may have other college / child support commitments (my biological parents’ does not). There’s also been restraining orders and jail time in the past for my non-custodial parent because of abuse / fighting. The non-custodial parent also pulled some sketchy stuff in court such as pretending not to understand English to force my custodial parent to pay for translator expenses in court during divorce proceedings - definitely knew English, the court decided in our favor on that. These details may factor into colleges’ decisions to grant a non-custodial income waiver for aid.

Estimated EFC (FAFSA): 12k Aid Total including low-interest loans
My custodial parent could contribute ~4 - 5k annually
I will work as needed but prefer to dedicate time to academics.

Estimated EFC (CCS): I’m not sure how to calculate this since the College Board’s provided estimator does not include a space for the income of the non-custodial parent and their spouse as some colleges require. Without that included, the estimate is $5,715 EFC. I was a bit unsure what to put in the untaxed Social Security Spot though. I subtracted the taxable Social Security from the 1040 form from the Social Security amount listed on the same form to the left (line 20a). Was that correct? I’m also not sure if that line already included my social security payments or not as the estimator wanted to exclude any SS payments to the student planning to attend college.

Colleges Being Considered:

Reach:
MIT
Carnegie Mellon
University of Southern California
Carleton College
Macalaster University

These two exclude the non-custodial parent’s spouse
Vanderbilt
Princeton

Target:
University of Minnesota Twin Cities
Boston University

Safety:
Metropolitan State University
University of Minnesota Duluth

Other Colleges Being considered for additional targets:
Case Western Reserve
Illinios Institute of Tech
DePauw
Rose-Hulman Institute of Tech
Lehigh
Corness College
Syracruse
University of Rochester

I might need to consider more in-state privates like Gustavus, St. Olaf, etc

College Prefs:

Setting - I don’t really care atm. I haven’t visited any colleges yet, but I’ve lived in rural and suburban settings, and I’ve visited urban settings for competitions and enjoyed them.

Size - Same as above. I only care about these first two factors insofar as they impact employment, undergrad research opportunities, and academic quality

Academics - I care greatly about having a strong computer science program and prep for grad school

Extracurriculars - Having robotics or policy debate is a potential tie-breaker

Finances - Affordability is very important

Party Life: I would call most of my friends nerds - otherwise, they share extracurricular interests. I can also be childish (in the sense that it’s not unusual for others to describe me as adorable) and socially awkward. If I get bored at a party, I retreat to a room to read philosophy articles.

Politics: Left leaning. Not super religious.

Distance: I don’t really care about family distance. I do have some unusually strong emotional attachments to some friends. I have one friend attending USC and others attending the U of M Twin Cities.

Gender Mix - Co-ed, balanced-ish

Thanks for any help, sorry for length

2

Have you run the Net Price Calculator on those school’s web sites?

Alabama (safety) would give you good merit aid.

3

Your tentative list does not make it clear whether you would prefer a tech-focused school, or simply one that would be good for CS. For examples of the latter, you could look into the well-funded, generally academically-balanced NESCACs. Their course catalogs will help you determine the stronger programs, which vary from well-established (e.g., Hamilton) to nascent (e.g., Bates). This group could add reaches to your list, but to no greater degree than the reaches you indicated above. Haverford might suit you as well.

4

For each college, go to its financial aid web page. Look for:

a. Whether non-custodial parent information is required.
b. Its net price calculator to estimate financial aid.

More information that you should read: http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/2083835-faq-divorced-parents-financial-aid-and-net-price-calculators.html

For automatic merit scholarships not dependent on parental finances, see: http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/discussion/comment/21089443/#Comment_21089443 (but verify on college web sites in case of changes)

If you have National Merit, see: http://nmfscholarships.yolasite.com/ (but verify on college web sites in case of changes)

5

Apply as soon as the University of Minnesota starts accepting applications since it uses rolling admissions and late applicants with outstanding credentials can & do often get waitlisted.

6

I do not have national merit status. My PSAT score was pretty meh (1340). I have checked all the schools on my list for whether they require non-custodial info. I took that from the college board page on participants in CSS and checked the column for non-custodial form requirements. The only schools that immediately interested me from that list were Princeton and Vanderbilt (Princeton requires non-custodial parents but not their spouses). All the other privates on my list require it. The public schools in Minnesota all seem to be FAFSA only, so not a problem there. @merc81 I am focused on schools good for CS that would prepare me well for grad school (MA or PhD). Should I focus more on LACs and research unis than some of the technical colleges like Rose-Hulman I listed? Or am I misguided altogether here? I have only run the net price calculator from the College Board site. I’ll see about doing some of the other schools. Thanks for the advice.

7

With respect to graduate school prospects, your preparation will be quite good through CS departments that offer ~15+ courses across good depth and breadth, as well as of personal interest. In actuality, you will be likely to take fewer than this. In this sense, either tech-focused or certain broader-based schools could be suitable for you academically.

As a more determinative factor, do you see yourself taking a wide array of courses outside of your major in fields such as classical studies, religious studies, government, literature, history, sociology, astronomy, geosciences and studio art (or across another, comparably diverse array, appropriate for your interests)? The answer to this could inform your selection process as much as other important considerations.

8

A CS major would probably take about 8 semester-long (or 12 quarter-long) junior/senior level CS courses, plus whatever frosh/soph level CS courses are prerequisites (variable in number due to how different departments organize their curricula).

So it would be desirable if the department frequently offered somewhat more than that number of junior/senior level CS courses, to allow for some flexibility due to student interest. Also important is the breadth of subarea coverage, since some CS departments are heavily skewed toward some subareas while lacking in coverage in others (e.g. Tulane is heavy in theory, computational biology, and artificial intelligence, but limited in other subareas).

9

In general, you should use the colleges’ own net price calculators over any generic ones, since different colleges may have different levels of financial aid for the same financial situation. Some colleges do point to customized versions of the College Board net price calculator, which allows you to save your information so that if you find another college that also uses a customized College Board net price calculator, you can reuse the information. But the customized version for each college should be preferred over whatever generic College Board calculator you may have used.

Note that some (like Princeton) have their own net price calculators, rather than using the College Board net price calculator. Some others use templates from other sources.

However, if your NCP and new spouse are unwilling to provide financial information, then colleges which require their information will be financially inaccessible unless you earn a large enough merit scholarship. That would make such a college an automatic reach if such a merit scholarship is competitive, even if admission would be match or safety, since admission without the scholarship would be effectively like rejection.

10

Hm. So, for the factors mentioned in your first paragraph, would that mean my best bet would be checking course offerings and the course requirements for a CS major with a focus on finding that they offer a wide variety of CS courses for different concepts? Regarding the second paragraph, I might take some philosophy courses if I could fit them, maybe some public policy style courses.

I received some more info from my non-custodial parent. Their spouse won’t reveal an exact income, but they are a seasoned airline pilot at Delta. That means an annual salary somewhere between 100k - 180k depending on experience and whether they are a captain or a pilot. Large range. They have seven dependent children. I’m working on net cost calculations for the private schools, but their recommendations for how to get an accurate output from the College Board’s Net Price calculator seem rather varied. Macalester, for example, receives the income of the non-custodial parent’s spouse through the CSS non-custodial parent form but does not include that step-parent’s income in aid calculations, but they do include half the total assets of the non-custodial parent’s family. I’m working on calling every college I’m interested in so that I can work out how they handle my situation as well.

U of M: 0 net cost w/ about 14k in loans (student and parent loans) and 3k in work study. The rest is grant money. Thought that 14k in loans would accumulate quickly over a four year period reaching 56k. I assume this calculation applies to most in-state publics since they all use the FAFSA calculation. Someone tell me if this is wrong. They also have some merit aid that all applicants are considered for automatically.

Privates: Not sure yet.

11

Generally, you want to see junior/senior level CS courses like these:

algorithms and complexity
theory of computation, languages, and automata
operating systems
compilers
networks
databases
security and cryptography
artificial intelligence and machine learning
hardware design
software engineering or projects in other courses
electives of interest

Offering every two years is the minimum – you would get one chance to take the course (and it may exclude some other course offered at the same time). Preferable is offering yearly or every semester.

CS major degree programs may be engineering-based or non-engineering-based. Typically the engineering-based ones have additional math and non-CS science requirements, and may have ABET accreditation (which is not generally important, except in special situations like taking the patent exam).

This means a net price of $17k per year, since net price = list price - (grants + scholarships). That is not very affordable, since you can only borrow $5.5k frosh year (increasing slightly later years) and realistically work to contribute $3k to $5k part time during the school year and summers. The rest would have to be parent loans or parent-cosigned loans, which may not be possible for low income parents (and not a very good idea anyway).

Other in-state publics may have different financial aid levels, so you should try their own net price calculators.

12

I’ll have to check if the spouse would provide it anonymously through the CSS Profile, which prevents other people from viewing it. I assume he didn’t provide it since it would have been accessible to me (I was just asking my non-custodial parent via email).

13

Ok, I went through the net price calculator for University of Minnesota Duluth (which also takes into account GPA and ACT, so I guess they include merit aid estimations) and received a net price of 8k, which isn’t too bad. Still working on contacting every school to see how they handle my financial situation. So far, Macalester excludes the non-custodial parent’s spouse’s income during aid calculations but includes the total assets of that spouse and the non-custodial parent divided by two. Working on other schools atm.

14

You’ve got a great list so far and good advice above. Just to add one thing: CS Rankings is a great resource for when you know the specific subfield and what research you want to do. Some notably missing options that could offer a good price:

http://csrankings.org/#/index?ai&vision&mlmining&nlp&ir

Unfortunately, many top options are public schools who wont offer you financial aid and those that aren’t you seem to have already included, but if you haven’t already looked there, it’s a good place to check.

15

Your list looks good. And congrats on your hard work paying off with such great options to even have to consider.

One very minor point and won’t make a difference at all. However to make sure no one picks up on small issue (but math and stem gives a lot of weight to precise accuracy). 10 out of 430 puts you at the top 2.3%. Not top 1%. But like I said doesn’t mean a hill of beans in the end.

16

You have reciprocity with UWisconsin, I’d take a look at them.

17

@privatebanker I blame naviance, which says my decile is “1”. While double checking that, I noticed my class size and rank were off. It’s actually 9/360. Don’t think that difference really matters. @intparent I appreciate the suggestion, but I doubt I would get any substantial aid. I have friends who just graduated and were accepted to UW Madison. Many of them preferred Madison for their programs over the U of M, but the U of M gave them substantial aid, and U Wisconsin did not provide any. And some of these are more accomplished than me by a substantial margin both academically and in extracurriculars. My understanding is that this is mostly a product of the politics and regulations surrounding most state-schools where preference is given to attracting in-state students with generous aid offers. @PengsPhils Thanks for the list. I’ll check it out.

18

@privatebanker Nvm. I have just realized that it says decile and not percentile for a reason. Top 10%, not 1%.

19

It’s ok. Just pointing it out. But still top of the class!

20

Well, you really, really would not want to have landed at the first percentile. You fall at the 97th percentile and within the top 3 percent. You can correctly be said to be within the top decile (top 10%) as well.