General assessment of Northwestern by a current junior

I don’t think I made a very informed decision. Frankly, I’m not sure if I would pick NU again, which is not to say NU isn’t a great school, but it’s not for everyone. My post is too long, so here I will address some general topics of interest, and in responses I will attempt to enumerate some other issues I care about: socioeconomic and racial diversity, mental health support, and other issues I may think of later.

A broad point to consider before I get into specifics: NU costs a lot because the tuition covers not only classes but campus life. For universities akin to NU, a bigger part of “college” is what is learned outside of the classroom. Obviously, NU has great professors and academics as well, but for students who are only interested in academics, I don’t think NU makes the most sense, purely for financial reasons. At a less rigorous & cheaper institution, you could put in effort to learn content independently and still quite well. By doing well at a “lesser” institution you could still do well in the future. So be sure that campus life is something you would take advantage of. In fact, I’m not sure NU makes sense for anyone who isn’t either financially well-off or receiving substantial financial aid.

Dorms, Parties, Alcohol: Though I have an entire topic dedicated to this, most of my friends don’t actually like to party, and they have had satisfactory experiences in college. This is for the students for whom the party scene is a large concern.
While on campus, I only lived on South Campus, which is more artsy and less “wild”. I’m really not sure how North is. NU doesn’t have a wet campus (it’s a liability issue). There are no dorm parties (like at Wash U or Brown). The alcohol policy also doesn’t protect individuals for making responsible choices if they themselves were in violation of the policy (i.e. if someone needs to go to the hospital, but all the friends with them are underage drinkers, they have less incentive to call for help since they will face disciplinary action). As a result, drinking is more dangerous at NU than at similar institutions with better alcohol policies. Our policy is antiquated and seems to prefer pretending that students won’t drink if the policy discourages it.
Frat parties are mainly for freshman girls at members of the particular frat. Off campus parties are frequently shut down by cops because of noise citations, but there is still a party scene, and I can’t recall a time when I wanted to go out and there was nothing going on. There’s always something, but it can be a little lackluster at times.

Greek life: I’m not in Greek life, but it has a noticeable (though not overbearing) presence. Some criticisms include its lack of inclusion for poor students. I have heard that during sorority recruitment, over 100 students applied for financial help but ~5 actually received it. This is not a confirmed statistic, but it’s sort of representative of a big issue with Greek life. Some of the Greek houses also have a “cost of fitting in,” unspoken requirement – the clothes, makeup, shoes, social expenses, etc. Though, some of the Greek houses have some very nice, down-to-earth individuals, and several of my friends have been very happy with their decisions to join.

Sports games: Disappointingly few students show up to football and basketball games. We are in the Big Ten and have a team that sometimes is amazing. There are people that are very interested in the games, and it does have a presence on our campus. I think it could be a good “middle-ground” for people who aren’t really into sports but like the football game experience. Games are free for students, a stark contrast to some of the lotteries and fares at other Division 1 schools.

Extracurriculars: There are groups for all kinds of interests, and if you make an effort, it’s not difficult to find people with similar interests (unless you’re conservative. I’m not, but I have heard them express how their point of view is in the minority – to which I respond, boohoo, now you know how minorities feel). I have several criticisms, but I don’t think these issues are unique to NU. The student groups are disparate and run on cycles. Many students start clubs for the resume padding, and some may even be very devoted, but generally by the time they graduate, if it doesn’t get picked up, the club sort of dies away as it’s less enthusiastic members take over. They continue to receive funding, though they do far less. There are MANY of these small groups, but they don’t have a large presence. Some small groups have such niche causes that they are unable to accomplish much in spite of having highly motivated members. The student government, which determines funding, so far has been unable to coordinate efforts of these groups to accomplish much needed changes within campus or to create a voice for some of the groups. Personally, I’ve also found very few groups with diverse major representation. People who study the same things tend to flock together. It’s been frustrating to try to understand some concepts from other disciplines and work with individuals from other disciplines on complex projects because I can’t find these people.
There are a few big groups that tend to attract the most attention, funds, and members.

Food: The dining hall meal plan is also required on-campus, and it’s pretty expensive, at about $10-11/meal for sub-standard food, and you will probably end up using some “meal points” at the convenience stores, which are very over-priced ($6.50 for Cinnamon Toast Crunch, $3.39 for the Starbucks bottles and small Odwalla bottles). There are a lot of good restaurants in downtown Evanston, though (which is just a 5 minute walk from some of the South Campus dorms & 15-20 mins from North)

Academics: There is a noticeable difference in academic rigor and intellectual culture between NU and some of the state schools my friends attend. The quarter system is quick. Because it’s so short, we have midterms from week 2 to week 10, and the quarter is only 11 weeks long. There is never a break or opportunity to fall behind. That being said, I’ve noticed tremendous intellectual growth within myself, which I credit largely to my classes and the students

Weather: It is cold and windy. School starts in late September, and it is usually too cold for sundresses even then. Then we have 2 weeks of warm weather before we go home for the summer. I grew up in a pretty cold temperature, but in college, you have to walk everywhere, and it’s unavoidable. It’s a much bigger obstacle. In the cold weather, people tend to stay indoors more and there are fewer social things to do. Consequently, the winter can be very depressing.

Medill: I started off in Medill and was disappointed. I think Medill prepares students well for careers in journalism as they currently exist. However, the landscape is rapidly shifting, and there are many institutional problems with media culture, and I think an important role of student journalists is learning how to enact change in the landscape. Only 1 intro class really even addresses this, and the rest is skill building. I don’t think Medill students learn to think as critically as they should. Medill requires many classes outside of journalism, which helps, but I don’t think it’s enough. I also didn’t find the instruction particularly helpful from any of the 6 professors I interacted with. It all seemed like things that could be learned independently. But it has a number of unique programs (Medill Justice Program, Journalism Residency in South Africa) and opportunities for students. It helps with networking (all of the professors have had impressive journalism careers), which is probably the most important thing for a journalism career.

McCormick: I’ve only taken 2 McCormick courses. From my understanding, the first year just sucks. It’s building fundamentals without any practical application, and therefore very boring. Those fundamentals are then used in classes specific to fields the engineers are interested in. The professors were uninspired (though, so is the content), though they clearly communicate ideas. But inspiration will have to come from within, I think.

Weinberg-Political Science/Economics: I’ve only had great professors, but I think I’m biased since I tend to be more interested in the social sciences anyway

I don’t feel like I can comment on any of the other schools since I have not taken courses in them, but I will say, there isn’t much overlap between schools. They are usually isolated, and not many of the course requirements overlap between schools. When I transferred to Weinberg, none of the ADVISERS for transferring into Weinberg knew anything about Medill. It makes a cross-disciplinary approach to learning more difficult. Weinberg distros also are exclusively Weinberg courses (you can petition to count other courses, though), whereas courses from other schools might have sufficiently addressed an area in Weinberg but won’t count

Racial diversity: There is a decent amount of racial diversity, albeit somewhat segregated at times. There is a small but visible social justice movement on campus that addresses structural racism, but there are also a number of individuals that perceive these “social justice warriors” as being over-sensitive and frequently playing the race card. I have been disappointed with the presence of this form of subtle and implicit racism on campus, but I think NU is better than many other colleges in this respect. I think OVERT racism is almost nonexistent here because there is a lot of pressure to be politically correct, but, as with the entire nation, structurally it’s still there. There are also a number of organizations that hold conversations about this, and I think it’s generally a good place for people who are passionate about addressing institutional racism and interacting with other passionate people.

Socioeconomic diversity is something that has recently received a lot of attention. The school has not had many low-income students in the past, but it recently began admitting more. However, low-income students need different kinds of support and resources to succeed, and the creation of those resources has not caught up yet, so there is a gap. This year, a new office was created for this purpose. So far, it has had programming and networking events. It’s certainly a start, and if students keep pushing for more, I expect it will grow.

Stress/Mental health: This is important to address because NU can be very stressful for many reasons. Classes can be much more rigorous than high school courses (unless you attend an elite high school), there is immense pressure to join multiple clubs, find internships, volunteer, etc, in addition to balancing social obligations. The first year can also be especially difficult for those who struggle to find a support system to navigate the tougher times. I think the majority of people feel overwhelmed at one point or another. And frankly, I think overworking students to the point where we’ve had multiple suicides in my time here is a systemic issue. There isn’t a culture of openness with talking about this, but I think it’s improving. There has also been a lot of attention on mental health, and CAPS, and I think it’s a good start. Because of overwhelming demand, it takes a long time to get an appointment. There are a limited number of free appointments per person as well, and CAPS primarily tries to assess your needs and refer you out. I got a good referral. But because it takes so long to get an appointment with CAPS, it seems like many students may not be able to get the help they need.

Thank you for taking the time to make your thoughtful posts. :">

I wish we would have seen this two years ago. My sophomore daughter is not unhappy at NU. However, I am not sure that she would pick NU again. NU does cost a lot, way too much, and is extremely competitive. To get limited spots for everything (clubs, programs, internships, jobs) you have to compete with many other highly qualified peers. NU is definitely not for everyone, including my freshman son. My two kids had wanted to go to the same college for as long as I could remember. My son had the benefit of making an informed/better decision. He eliminated NU from consideration as soon as he saw the financial package.

…In fact, I’m not sure NU makes sense for anyone who isn’t either financially well-off or receiving substantial financial aid… Thank you for being so honest. In my humble opinion, this is right on. NU and Chicago in general have provided many opportunities for my daughter. However, from cost-benefit consideration, NU simply does not make sense for us as well.

A relative attended NU and I’ve been hearing many similar observations for years. I went to a small LAC with much less name recognition. My relative received a rigorous (but expensive) education and with NU on the resume, has had a lot of doors opened. I think I had a more overall satisfying college experience, that was rigorous enough, and had closer relationships with more professors (who opened doors for me in their own ways). Both of us went to grad school afterwards and things kind of evened out.

I’d say NU can be a valuable experience for some, but students should know exactly what they are getting into–as people should for any major decision in life.

Ginnygin – No problem. To be honest, though, I don’t think my high school senior self would listen to this advice. I thought anyone could be happy anywhere if they tried hard enough (and this could be true for some people, to an extent)

Indycat – if your daughter is a sophomore, I think transferring is still an option. I’ve known people who happily transferred out (though, admittedly most were at the end of freshman year)
NU did get better for me sophomore and junior year, but sometimes a change can be good. The thought of starting over just sounds exhausting, though.

MidwestDad 3 – I agree. I think a similar, highly-motivated individual who attends a less elite institution would be able to navigate and find opportunities at that institution that would yield a similar outcome without spending as much money

If anyone has any questions, feel free to ask, and I’ll do my best to respond

I’ve got a few things to say, but just as a peremptory statement, I want to say that a lot of these are based on personal experience, so if I come off as saying something isn’t true, I apologize.

First off, financial aid is pretty decent. Super mediocre. However, there are plenty of people for whom Northwestern is similarly priced to other schools, especially if you aren’t ED, which can bring down the financial aid.

Parties and alcohol: I pretty much agree that if you want to party in school, NU isn’t the best choice. Lots of people who are partying complain about the lack of fun. However, if you don’t think you’re going to party that much, or don’t drink at all, then NU is fine. Our campus isn’t dry. Students over 21 are allowed to have alcohol in their rooms, and allowed to drink it in the presence of other students 21+. Alcohol policy is hopefully changing soon, as there have been some big pushes recently for both the reporter and reportee of a medical emergency to be safe.

Greek: Totally agree on greek life, expensive and not always the most inclusive, but I know plenty of nice people in it who love it.

Sports: Yeah, spot on, not great but it can be fun. The games we win are super fun, and it’s possible we’ll do better this upcoming year.

Extracurriculars: I think we’ve got a great variety for such a medium-sized school. Yeah, there are some issues, but for the most part I think that the situation here is pretty good. If you want to find people from a wider variety of majors, you just have to find the right clubs that attract a wider variety of people.

Food: The meal plan is decently expensive, but we do NOT have sub-standard food. If you’ve been to almost any other college, than you know that our food is actually great comparatively. It might not be as good as a nice restaurant, but the food is good overall.

Academics: Yup, learn a lot, but pretty difficult.

Weather: Yeah, winter quarter sucks, but the majority of fall quarter is decently nice. Maybe a light jacket and pants for guy, but it’s not that cold. And Spring quarter is great. It snows a bit, and might be a bit cold once in a while, but it’s minimally in the 50s for almost the whole quarter.

Medill: Teaching there is good, but like you said a lot of it is skills. However, some of the classes help teach more critical skills, and the non-classroom options are all great. NBN, Stitch, Pulse, and other niche magazines provide great extracurriculars, the justice project, Knight Lab, JR, etc. are all great in developing great journalists.

McCormick: Many engineers enjoy DTC freshman year, but EA sucks. However, EA is necessary for engineering. Yeah, freshman year is hard for the engineers, but it’s not that bad. After that many of them enjoy their classes.

Weinberg: Overall very mixed bag. You can’t really group such a giant, diverse school.

You’re actually a bit wrong here, objectively. There are a few non-Weinberg classes that count as distros, and you can also petition for some to count. For instance, an engineer transferring to Weinberg would probably get out of the Formal Studies and/or Natural Science distros even though they technically don’t count. Also, it’s pretty easy to take classes in other schools. I have a friend who likes music, but he’s an engineer, and he’s taken quite a few music classes. It’s tougher than it could be, however it’s not that hard.

Diversity/Inclusion: Yeah, Northwestern definitely has plenty of issues, but I agree that it’s better than many other places. You can usually find a group that will support you if you have issues, and I think plenty of my friends of color would pick NU again looking back.

Socioeconomics: I think that Northwestern is doing pretty well for a school where something like 40% of students can afford 60K a year. It’s not perfect, but as a student from the lower-middle class-ish background, I might have some issues, but not necessarily as many as I expected before coming here.

Stress and Mental Health: Yeah this is a big issue. There is slow improvement, however it’s not moving as fast as it should. Hopefully it gets better, but at the moment, the only thing I can recommend is that people find an outlet. Sustained dialogue, a club, frat/sorority, church, whatever works for them. It’s the only good way to fix this issue at the moment.

It may show, but I would absolutely pick NU again. I’m not into the mindset the school seems to create of always needing to be busy, needing to do more, etc. but you don’t have to fall into that. I think there’s plenty of flaws, but I definitely think that for many people the pros outweigh the cons.

A lot of what the OP mentioned apply to NU’s peers. For some, it’s better to be bigger fish at smaller ponds; it’s even better when that option is cheaper.

They are already more practical than the basic physics and engineering courses in most other schools. The practicality becomes clearer when you take upper-level courses.

Yeah, I think anything anyone could say would have to be from personal experience. A lot of the “positives” could be “negatives” for some people, and vice versa. I think it totally depends on the individual. :slight_smile:

I agree with your assessment of transfer credits & ability to take courses in other schools, though, that also has particular requirements that don’t make the most sense (I only took EA 1, which can apply to formal studies, but I already had that fulfilled. It wouldn’t work for NatSci either, like EA 3 and EA 4 do. I understand it’s a policy they’ve implemented, but it’s sort of illogical because none of the classes in the sequence REALLY does much with NatSci).

I think many of the issues I’ve enumerated are generally problems at many institutions for higher learning. And I think there are probably fewer of these issues at Northwestern because of pressure from name-recognition than other schools.

FINANCIAL AID: I have received a decent amount of financial aid and grants and have enough saved up that I won’t graduate in debt or with high-interest student loans, but I think it’s a weird category for ambiguously-defined “upper-middle class” students, who are on the edge of income distributions but don’t qualify for fin aid. I’m not sure how the fin aid office takes into account geography or standards of living, but I’ve known enough students who took out substantial private loans to come here. I think THAT is a no-no because it places a lot of pressure on finding a career with high-income potential right out of college instead of finding something that might take a few years to build up. And the gains from coming to NU would seem to diminish in this way.
However, I would STRONGLY encourage low-income students to apply if they think NU is a good fit because I think elite institutions tend to offer better packages. Many low-income students get full rides and housing taken care of. But some first generation students (not using this synonymously with low-income) have issues with campus culture and resources to help them succeed. This appears to be improving at NU

I would just encourage people to read whatever literature exists to make a good, informed decision.

Also, it might be good to add that I think NU academics are outstanding. McCormick is extremely rigorous and produces great engineers. I think the 1st year sequence is also very difficult and perhaps demotivating because the practical applications aren’t immediately evident. That’s potentially an important factor for someone who’s very interested in engineering because a lot of students transfer out of McCormick the 1st year

@Crimsonstained “First off, financial aid is pretty decent. Super mediocre. However, there are plenty of people for whom Northwestern is similarly priced to other schools, especially if you aren’t ED, which can bring down the financial aid.”

While it is true that a financial aid applicant has a possibility of getting a better financial aid package if they apply RD and compare packages, NU treats ED and RD applicants the same in terms of awarding financial aid:

“If you’re applying for financial aid, we use the same need-based process for financial aid awards for early decision and regular decision; your aid package will be the same regardless of when you apply.”
http://ugadm.northwestern.edu/apply/tips-for-applying.html#EDRD

I know ED students who have found their financial aid packages to be very fair. Also, the chart on the following page, displaying percentage of students awarded scholarships and the average scholarship amount by family income levels, might be useful:
http://ugadm.northwestern.edu/financial-aid/aid-overview-and-financing-options.html

I think this is a great discussion for US News obsessed parents and children about ROI, Return on Investment. The OP is not questioning the great opportunities at NU, but rather whether cost-benefit favors attending.

Much of this decision will be based on where one’s family stands on the economic ladder. For many in low income/lower middle income need groups, private colleges often are as inexpensive or more inexpensive than state u alternatives. For high income families, well, even the crazy full price of tuition today may be considered no financial challenge. The squeeze comes in for middle/higher middle income families receiving limited or no financial aid. Here, in many ways unfairly, the debt burden potentially taken on should be reason to think twice about not accepting that academic scholarship to the “lesser” school or state u.

As far as Medill or Tech are concerned, a warning to anyone, at any school, gauging an academic experience based on freshman courses. Lower level intro classes - everywhere - tend to be large and often laboriously less than stimulating. Medill is the most cutting edge journalism program in the world, bar none. But slogging through classes that teach style and accuracy (i.e. the Medill “F”) are not the same as being out in the field reporting investigatively. Is this requirement a relic of the past or one that is still relevant today? Unfortunately, that may be best answered by the still ongoing Rolling Stones-U Va debacle. Intro engineering courses are similarly less than stimulating at many schools, but Engineering First at NU is a substantial improvement on that reality, a model now being copied nationally.

Is this fair that those in the middle/higher middle find themselves squeezed ? Of course not, but welcome to today’s unfortunate reality. ROI should be part of every decision surrounding college choice.

@CCMom2U I had a class with Morty where he essentially admitted that while they try not to change the financial aid for ED, it is considered, and I’m sure if you did an analysis, ED generally gets slightly less than RD. Just because the website states it’s the same, does not mean that’s true.

@Crimsonstained Interesting. Can you clarify what you meant by “it is considered?” Financial need is considered in terms of who they accept ED? Or they consider giving lower financial aid offers to ED admitted students?

I would expect that ED applicants do receive less than RD applicants because those with considerable financial aid probably tend to apply RD in order to compare offers.

I really appreciate cosmicdreamer’s original post as some of it validated a recent experience. My child visited NU for a couple overnights and his take away was that it isn’t a very inclusive campus for lower income, minority students. I was saddened by this. I guess that is why visits are so valuable. Sending him there would be a huge sacrifice for me and my family, so I’m glad he found out now what the environment is like. ROI is a big consideration, but so are the social and emotional aspects of a good with with your campus.

Let me add in a point:

Internationals: Come here only if your dad is a managing director of some large MNC or you have lots of stable, sustainable ‘connections’ (ugh, I wanna puke seeing this term again) in your family. Will all nighters for a high GPA be worth it? Can you get a job/internship on/off campus? Can you get into desirable student groups/fraternities that will aid your career development? The general answer is a big fat NO for all of them. When I went to seek advice in the careers office they basically asked me to help myself and accept the fact that it is impossible. EXTREMELY WEAK for that compared to schools that NU define as ‘peers’ but clearly are a step above (yes, I have friends attending those schools and their support/opportunities have been way more superior and available). So, if you are an international, unless you are from a family that has already paid four years of tuition at Choate/Exeter/some prestigious prep school, flies in business class exclusively, uses $1000+ bags and coats etc, and have job offers pre-arranged and waiting for you every summer…DO NOT COME HERE. You will feel scarily miserable and wonder why you paid so many times more tuition than going to school in your home country for nothing.

Just to offer another view about international students…
I’m a US citizen. A number of my roommates and close friends have been international students, but obviously I still have a very different experience

Finding internships and jobs is extremely difficult for int’l students. I think this is less because NU can’t provide the resources and more because the companies are simply much less willing to hire international students (though, likely somewhere in the middle). I think a lot of the highly desirable campus orgs that ivyleaguefan may be referring to are generally very competitive, even for Americans. NU could always do a better job, and it’s pretty crappy that career services said to accept that it’s impossible for an int’l student to find a job. There is an office for int’l students, but I think their help is limited (tax returns, and work eligibility). They also organize International Student Orientation to help students adjust to a new country/customs (I’ve heard good things) as well as foster a community.

NU is tremendously expensive and international student aid is almost nonexistent, and there’s the rare external grant. But there are many happily adjusted and not abundantly wealthy int’ls here. A handful of my friends are only here because of partial or full grants from their home countries or institutions, and very few have pre-arranged jobs. I know someone with no connections who got work at IBM after freshman year, but she works tremendously hard, and was undoubtedly a standout candidate.

This is not to invalidate ivyleaguefan’s experiences, but just to offer a counterpoint that the campus culture isn’t necessarily hostile towards international students, and experiences greatly vary, but I think that’s the case for most students as well. And tuition seems to be a recurring problem and perhaps especially relevant since international students may have much a lower ROI if he/she had to return to home country that may have lower wages.

@CCMom2U Financial aid is essentially a game of “How low can we pay, while still having the student attend,” so many things come into play. If someone applies ED, then they are already more likely to come, because they pretty much have to come. Therefore they can have a higher price. Regardless of whether or not it’s conscious, the price is going to be higher, because they know they can get away with it.

@ginnygin I’m sorry that they felt that way. I think that our campus is very inclusive in general, and many minority students bond both within their ethnic groups, but also with many people outside of those groups. That being said, the feel you get on campus is very important, so I wouldn’t say to discount that.

@ivyleaguefan,

I think internationals should think twice about spending a lot of money on US colleges if they expect to stay and find jobs after graduation. More often than not, the job situation won’t pan out. Australia and Canada are probably better alternatives.

The job market for internationals had long been difficult. It got worse after “9-11” and became really bad in recent years. The legal fees for companies to sponsor internationals got higher and higher. The US immigration makes it complicated and costly for companies to hire internationals. It could also become a bad PR for companies to hire foreigners if they belong to industries in which the supply of Americans exceeds the demand.

The career service is mostly there to get as many companies to participate on-campus recruiting as possible. But most companies don’t sponsor these days and there’s really nothing the career center can do about it. The people at the career service are not going to make cold calls for you; doing so could turn employers off and the career center is not going to risk that. You just have to keep sorting through the job listing in the database to find those that are willing to sponsor internationals.