<p>Different students have very different experiences. It's fun and maybe useful to try to characterize the Ivies. But, I just want to make the point that there is a lot of individual variation within each college. A particular student's experience depends on their major, their preparation for college work, personality, personal choices/priorities. Another way to say it is that there is room, within broad limits, to accommodate individual preferences and needs.</p>
<p>Students who are actually going through the experience probably have less insight (or maybe weaker stereotype) about what their college is like than outsiders. I have asked Cornell students what they think Cornell is like in general and the most common response is "I don't know". Some say with a tone in their voice that I think means "How am I supposed to know?". </p>
<p>It is a little like the phenomenon of prejudice toward people. The better you know someone, the harder it is to pigeonhole them.</p>
<p>Characterizing the amount of partying concerns me. It varies a lot by individual and by major. As a general principle, I think it is wiser for new students to avoid partying as much as possible, at least until they get their bearings.</p>
<p>Cornell is the easiest one to get into, and probably the most cut throat because there's not as much grade inflation, but its still an elite college and it has the biggest engineering program out of any ivies.</p>
<p>I think that is the most ridiculous post I have ever read. First-years often party the most. Also, I think no one can better describe a college than someone who has attended or is currently attending, Also, the social scene, or lack thereof, has a tremendous effect on the lives of students. Going out isn't completely destructive, as you make it out to be. Its a great way to meet people, and given the right circumstances can be the base of some great friendships. Someone who likes going out are likely to like certain Ivies much more than others. Some Ivies social experiences are much more independent (Columbia) vs. others are much more centered around the community (Pton and Dartmouth) while others are somewhere in the middle (Brown and Harvard). </p>
<p>I know it makes you sad that your child isn't knitting on the weekends, but be realistic. Many first-years manage to do very well academically while having a great time on the weekends, whether this means playing pong or watching a movie.</p>
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Harvard - melting pot of the Ivies, prolly the least socially adept students, </p>
<p>...Harvard - either very geeky kids with minimal social skills
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<p>I haven't the slightest idea where you guys come up with these perceptions of Harvard. I would argue that Harvard students are probably the most socially adept of all the Ivy league students. After all, Harvard is arguably the most difficult to get into of all the Ivies and thus the least likely to accept you just for mere nerdy academic genius. Generally, those who get into Harvard are those who have a wide swath of EC's (in addition to academic brilliance), which means that you've probably not a nerd. </p>
<p>I would say that if you REALLY want to look for place with lots of nerds in the Ivy League, the Cornell engineering department is a far better candidate.</p>
<p>Haha...cool engineers do exist. I'm not an engineer, but I know a few here at Cornell who know how to have a good time. I'm not so sure cool Harvard students exist, however.</p>
<p>"Generally, those who get into Harvard are those who have a wide swath of EC's (in addition to academic brilliance), which means that you've probably not a nerd."</p>
<p>But when those ECs are President of Robotics club, Siemens finalist, IMO winner (or the like)...you're probably a nerd. It's like when people say that kids at UChicago party, they really mean they go to museums and play Cranium.</p>
<p>Sakky-
There is some truth to what you say about Cornell Engineering. In Cornell engineering, however, the ChemE students are known as the socializers. They have frequent social get-togethers. The EE and CompE students, on the other hand, are non-socializers. Call them "nerds" or "loners" or simply people who don't have as much time for social things. Burn-out is more of a problem for the EE and CompE students. In their defense, many of them were very active and talented in high school. Engineering is like walking across a long bed of hot coals.</p>
<p>Slipper-
I know you liked the party scene at Dartmouth and that you feel no ill-effects from it. But, generally, the toughest adjustment and highest drop-out rate is the first year of college. I am not talking about making friends. I am talking about substance abuse. Alcohol and drugs are recognized as a very serious problem on college campuses. If you party a lot and still do alright, you are lucky, not wise. My warning about partying was designed to help new students avoid disaster. Playing pong and watching a movie...I don't think of those things as partying. Personally, I drink about one beer per month. I have no need for more. And, I do more drinking than knitting.</p>
<p>You said Dartmouth and Princeton were similar in their sense of community. Dartmouth and Princeton are about the same size (undergrad). At Dartmouth in 2004, there were 97 arrests for on-campus liquor law violations and 279 disciplinary actions. At Princeton, there were 3 arrests and 23 disciplinary actions.</p>
<p>What advice would you give your own child about partying at college?</p>
<p>Yes, people who go to a college are in the best position to provide a general characterization. But, at a large university, individual students have experiences that are very different from one another. Even the experts (the students) don't have the big picture. The more diverse the undergraduate experience, the less valid a broad brush description. Outsiders might think they know a college, but it is based on stereotypes and hearsay. That was my point. It's really hard and probably misleading to pigeonhole a university.</p>
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But when those ECs are President of Robotics club, Siemens finalist, IMO winner (or the like)...you're probably a nerd. It's like when people say that kids at UChicago party, they really mean they go to museums and play Cranium.
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<p>But the question is not whether Harvard doesn't have some nerds. Of course it does. The question is, is Harvard the most nerdiest of the Ivies? To that, I would say absolutely not. </p>
<p>Again, the truth is, Harvard is arguably the most difficult of all the Ivies to get into (the low Yale admissions percentage notwithstanding), and in particular, is the least likeliest to admit you if you only have academic "nerd" qualifications. Let's face it. Such people are more likely to be admitted at some of the other Ivies, simply because it is easier in general to get admitted to the other Ivies. So many accomplished people apply to Harvard that Harvard doesn't have to "settle" for a guy with just nerd qualities, but rather can admit the guy with the nerd qualities AND high social skills.</p>
<p>Honestly collegehelp, Princeton students drink about as much as Dartmouth students from my experience hanging out at Princeton. Its just that the Hanover gestapo prides itself of nabbing students. Those stats aren't indicative of the students, they are indicative of the police.</p>
<p>I think a few people can't handle themselves with the social scene, but the vast majority can given these schools graduation rates north of 95% (btw - pong involved drinking). Also, a lot of people do hang out at parties and don't drink. </p>
<p>I agree that schools are multi-dimentional, but I think the descriptions mentioned in this thread have highlighted those dimentions. My personal favorite (and many others) times at Dartmouth revolved around the random fun that was to be had in Hanover, like jumping in the river at first snow or skiing before class. But everyone should be aware of the party scene, to ignore it is denial. Someone going to Columbia isn't going to find nearly as many college parties as there will be at Princeton, and they should be aware of that. They should also be aware that while at Dartmouth 100% parties are open to the entire campus, at Harvard the social scene is much more segmented and private. These things matter. </p>
<p>As for Harvard: Harvard is full of socially adept people. Harvard also clearly has some of the most talented students out there. The house system is amazing, and the food is spectacular. Harvard's intensity, however, is an asset as well as a detriment. Sometimes it seems that Harvard students are out to one-up each other, separating themselves into the lampoon crowd, the finals clubs crowd, the drama-hasty pudding crowd, the athlete crowd, etc. This works to some tremendous networking, but also makes the place less casually friendly than more socially open Ivies. I have very social friends who have loved Harvard, but they acknowledge that its not for everyone. However, for those happy with knowing their niche and with less of a concern about knowing everyone, the resources are amazing and the networking within groups pays off well after graduation.</p>
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But the question is not whether Harvard doesn't have some nerds. Of course it does. The question is, is Harvard the most nerdiest of the Ivies? To that, I would say absolutely not.
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You're missing the point of the thread. These are stereotypes. Whether they're true or false doesn't matter (for this thread). If you ask the "average joe" or a hobo on the street, Harvard (or Hahvahd) = cloistered brainiacs. The same holds true for Princeton and to a lesser extent Yale. It's less true for the other Ivies simply because most people haven't heard of them. :p</p>
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You're missing the point of the thread. These are STEREOTYPES
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<p>No, I think I've completely gotten the point, and I would say, again, if we're talking about Harvard, the stereotype of being a glad-handing, super-social scion of an extremely powerful and prominent family is a FAR STRONGER stereotype of Harvard than anything about being a cloistered brainiac. It would argue that when most people think of Harvard, they think of George Bush, Al Gore, and the Kennedy's rather than some nerd.</p>
<p>I think sakky has a point here...having spent a significant amount of time around Harvard and Harvard students, I can say that most are socially capable kids. Qualitatively, I can't detect anymore nerds at Harvard than anywhere else. It's possible that Harvard's metropolitan location deceives people into thinking that Harvard students are less social because there's less craziness directly in the yard (compared to, for instance, frat houses at Cornell) on weekends. My hunch is that they are simply taking advantage of the city's offerings as opposed to getting drunk in their neighbor's dorm room.</p>
<p>As an aside, having partied at most of the Ivy campuses (sans Dartmouth and Brown), the craziest night I ever had was at an eating club at Princeton--those kids can throw down with the best of them.</p>