General premed advice.

<p>Look, what I'm saying is that even in test-based courses (like, say, biochemistry), Harvard students have far more opportunities to prove their knowledge than just on exams. This almost always translates into higher grades, precisely because most of us tend to better on homework and projects than we do on in-class exams. At state schools, you often find your entire grade based on two, maybe three exams. Exams on which there is a definate cutoff (x % get a C and so on). In Harvard classes, the mean on the exam usually translates to a higher grade (often B+) AND that grade is offset by those extra assignments. This is one of the big factors for the grade differentials. </p>

<p>I think the comparison and contrast with other elite schools like MIT is entirely appropriate. Let's assume that Harvard students and anyone of their caliber (assume MIT students are of that caliber) would get a 3.8 or 3.9 at UF. Why is it then that at MIT, the average GPA is much lower than at Harvard? Why do MIT students have a harder time getting into medical school than Harvard students do? Are the Harvard kids just that much smarter than MIT students are? </p>

<p>Finally, I'm sure your brother works really hard. However, he hasn't also experienced another grading system; I have, and based on my experiences (with grad and undergraduate courses in 3 places), if you were to ask me where I would choose to do my undergraduate work again if it were entirely based on where I think I could get the highest GPA, my answer (without much thought at all) would be Harvard.</p>

<p>I;m just reposting my original:</p>

<p>Another freshman at Cornell.
I'm also a bio/econ double major. My first semester at Cornell wasn't too bad (intro chem, bio, calc and FWS) and i currently have a 3.9 GPA and am doing research. This may be impressive, but it really isn't i know. As a Cornell grad, rds248, would you say it's advisable to finish the pre-med requirements and then perhaps drop the bio major and do econ and other courses that you like and would boost your GPA, while continuing to do research??</p>

<p>Any input from Cornelians about intro bio. I got a B+ in bio lab and A- in bio lecture (my lowest combined grade point of any course(s)), I was thinking of switching to BIo 106 (autotutorial) for next semster..any thoughts??</p>

<p>thanks,</p>

<p>ok, so it seems like everyoen here has some super GPA and all going for them, but how does it work for those of us who arent gonna get a 3.9? I think my GPA when will end up somewhere between 3.1-3.4 at Vanderbilt. I am actually only a freshman now so it maay seem odd to be guessingg my GPA in 3 years, but i dont really see how i could get much better then a 3.5 in any semester (just one or two bad grades and your totally screwed). Anyways, sicne i will have taken all of the science requirements for the MCAT i was intending on taking it after my sophmore year and then evaluating whether or nto to apply to med school based on the result. Since if i go premed all my AP credits will be whipped out it will take me 4 years to complete the premed requirements, but only 3 to graduate with a double major in Biomedical Engineering and Electrical Engineering. What i was wondering is how good of an MCAT would i have to get to pair with a 3.3 GPA (with double major in engineering if that matters at all) in order to have good enough chances of getting into some med school that it would be worth it to pay the 15,000$ it would cost to attend another year.</p>

<p>I have historically done well in standardized tests, 1530 SAT, 5's on all 6 APs i took, all 4 SATII scorces between 730-800. This is what got me into college, with a horrible GPA, will a good MCAT score work the same way and balance out my college GPA?</p>

<p>also more as a side note, its really annoying that med schools wont take my AP tests to count for chemistry and physics, why is that, i got a 5 on both tests, and the courses were harder then anything ive taken at Vanderbilt so far (including organic chemistry), so why to colleges not let me count them, when i take the MCAT im only going to use the knowledge from my high school classes, so why require that i take even more advanced physics and chemistry courses when my high school taught everything you need to know for the MCAT...</p>

<p>Regarding your question Cornellkhoja, I don't think I'm qualified to give you advice regarding the major question. In my day I did not know of any premeds that were double majors. I would say you are doing great so far, so just follow your instincts and major in the subject that you love the most, or if you feel you can handle the double major stay with it. Don't do it just for the GPA. It sounds like your GPA will be fine no matter what major you choose. However if you really want to do research as an undergrad, I doubt the basic premed courses alone will give you the background to do any real independent research, especially if you are talking about bench research in a lab. You really need some background in biochem or molecular biology, and I'm not sure you'll get that as a straight econ major. So it really depends on what you are really interested and passionate about! Sorry, with regard to the specific bio courses, I can't comment as I graduated in the late 70's and those numbers mean nothing to me.. you need an upperclassman or recent grad to help you with those. Good luck.</p>

<p>HI </p>

<p>i am an highschool student planing to take SAT on my junior year. I would like to ask what does it really mean to be a pre-med student and to major in psychology whiles minoring in biology?, what would such person use the degree in psychology for?, and when i was reading your message, you said you need (8 semesters of science to med school), how would such person get that 8 semesters of science throught the psychology? and if you become a pharmacist and you are going to med school, do you need to go start from the scratch before they accept you there? Thank you</p>

<p>HI </p>

<p>i am an highschool student planing to take SAT on my junior year. I would like to ask what does it really mean to be a pre-med student and to major in psychology whiles minoring in biology?, what would such person use the degree in psychology for?, and when i was reading your message, you said you need (8 semesters of science to med school), how would such person get that 8 semesters of science throught the psychology? and if you become a pharmacist and you are going to med school, do you need to go start from the scratch before they accept you there? Thank you</p>

<p>In answer to Browntown:</p>

<p>First of all, yes, a stellar MCAT score will help to balance out a subpar GPA. It won't "wipe it out", but it will help.</p>

<p>Secondly, there's nothing that says that you absolutely must take your premed classes at Vanderbilt. If you want to graduate from Vanderbilt early and hence save money, then you can do that, and then take all your premed classes at a cheap state college or even a CC. True, it might look better if you did your premed classes at Vanderbilt and got good grades in them, but if you need to save the money, and/or you don't think you will get good grades in premed classes at Vanderbilt, then you may be better off doing those premed classes somewhere else.</p>

<p>Third, something seems to be amiss in what you wrote. You say that you got a 5 in your AP tests, and those AP courses were harder than anything you've done at Vanderbilt. So, if that's really the case, then why will your Vanderbilt GPA end up between a 3.1-3.4? It seems to me that if you smoked your AP courses, then you should have no problem in cranking out straight A's at Vanderbilt. So what exactly am I missing here? If you are saying that you just don't get good grades in classes, but you do well in tests, then that's a rather serious academic issue that you just can't ignore. You have to then ask yourself why is it that you don't do well in the actual classes, even though you're smart enough to do well on exams? Is it because you are smart, but lazy and so you don't show up to class? Is it because you don't have intellectual stamina and so you don't like doing homework or labs? Is it because you say and do things to **** off your teachers, and so they repay you with bad grades? Whatever the issue is, I think you need to fix it, if you want to maximize your chances of getting into med-school. Like it or not, med-schools consider GPA to be extremely important.</p>

<p>sakky, do u go to MIT?</p>

<p>mAN this is dumb, why are med schools so superficial in looking at the high numbers but not the capabilities of the students?
From what i gather,
engineering students work their @$$ off and don' t exactly get high GPAs, worst major to consider for premed,
Biochem. and biology, chemistry etc. come pretty near, tho not as bad as engineering majors,
classical and those art, music, drawing, underwater basket-weaking, lint-picking majors generate the highest GPAs.
Now I don't ever wanna major in BME biomedical engineering or biomechanical engineering etc, nor do I want to do biochemistry. Maybe I will still stick with general biology tho since i like it so much , to study life, etc .</p>

<p>Ok. So this forum has been dead for about 3 weeks. But, hopefully someone will hear my cry for help here:
I am a 3rd year architecture student at OSU. it is a 4 year program. Extremely difficult. From my above reading, I guess that means nothing. Ok.
SO I've had a change of heart, and I'm trying to pursue medicine. I have a schedule sort-of worked out...summer classes, trying to cram in classes next year, and take the mcats at the end of the summer of my fourth year (basically august 06) --- if im not ready, Ill wait a year.
My question is this: what does BASIC INTRODUCTORY courses mean? e.g.: Ive been told that when referring to bio, specifically, that includes general bio (1+2) and mol. Gen. and BIOCHEM. mol. gen and bio chem are not required at the universities im interested in, but some KIDS have told me that I will suffer on the MCATS if I do not take them. (bear in mind I plan to take those classes along with anatomy and any other post-bacch courses in the year between 4 year and acceptance)</p>

<p>Do i need those other classes? is trying to push this into a year and a half even remotley plausable?
just for refrence: I have a 3.5 total GPA and a 4.0 in my physics courses...again, it probably doesnt matter that architecture studios are extremely wieghted classes that are graded very differently than regular courses and a b or b+ in those classes mean toatally different things than getting a B in a bio or english class....I should do very well in the other science courses, and I hope to do well on the MCATS --- I also hope to volunteer a lot, I have started a school journal for my architecture school at osu, I will be doing an independant study in Italy this spring...etc, etc --- I hope that is sufficient for med school....a lot of people make it sound IMPOSSIBLE...and i dont think it is. I think its difficult, but if you try hard, do well on the MCATS, have good grades, etc etc, ill be fine.</p>

<p>Ok OK OK ..sorry -- my question is about the biochem, mol.gen classes. and what oppertunity I would have as an arch student to show the work I did as an undergrad, and how that would help, if any....
sorry about all the mush -- trying to get all this in order. any help would be greatly appreciated</p>

<p>I'm confused about how it's possible to get all pre-med requirments in a year?</p>

<p>thats my question. basically, here goes:
chem this summer. Chem 2 this fall, along with bio 1. Chem 3 in the winter along with bio 2. ochem 1 this spring, ochem 2 the following summer. maybe mol. gen and bio chem spring/summer of next year as well. i already have finished english and physics.</p>

<p>(Bear in mind osu is on quarter system, so i have the oppertunity to squeeze in more classes.)</p>

<p>Is anyone out there pursuing a Nutrition degree as their bachelor's degree? Just looking for some advice.</p>

<p>roostercogwell, the advanced classes are not necessary for the MCAT. You would be better off studying some Kaplan/ExamKrackers (or other preparatory) material. The MCAT tests general biology , Gen Chem, OChem and Physics. The difficulty is in the test questions and style....not the material. Remember, Ohio has 7 medical schools so and OSU is one of the more competitive. It sounds like you would have a good application if your MCAT school is at least average.</p>

<p>You say undergrad schools matter when you apply for graduate medical school, so I was wondering, are UCI, UCSB, UCD considered as top schools, average or low-ranked?</p>

<p>and is it better to major in biology or biochemistry? what's the difference?</p>

<p>up on xranger's question</p>

<p>I believe that those three are average..average on par with the middle of the universities in USA...not great, but hey they are schools to go to :)</p>

<p>How about U of A, the University of Arizona? ? IT's ranked 99th on USNEWS, how does it compare with the other three UCI UCSB UCD for premed programs? I also got accepted to Cornell, 14th or something, which is much higher, but it also costs 40,000 a year while in UA I'll spend a few thousand a year for everything tops, because I got a full tuition scholarship with another $3000 to help pay off room and board, books, etc. My family is middle class range with around $100,000 income per year, and my parents can only support me with $10,000 to $20,000 at most. I heard on this board somewhere GPA matters more than the school. If I get 4.0 at U of A and get 3.5 at Cornell, which would you pick over? ?</p>

<p>Whats Georgetown's pre-med program like? Or UPenns? It has come to my attention that, in spite of their esteemed reputations, these top schools have relatively weak science departments. But are they so weak that you would be wasting your money?
Thoughts?</p>