<p>I think that education is not a good like cars or homes. It is what ensures that the best people become our future leaders.</p>
<p>And the people who chose other schools - it’s because they made a financial decision. If they had plenty of money they would have gone to the ivy. And of course I recognize that there are non-Ivy schools that are top-notch too but they’re also very hard to get into.</p>
<p>Mom2collegekids - like I said before, I’m not just concerned about my kids. If I were, I’d be happy with the system the way it is. My daughter went to a private college. A classmate of hers, who was a much better student, got into her school and one of the schools that offered my daughter a merit scholarship. My daughter was able to chose the “better” college while the better student went to the other university. Our kids haven’t done anything to deserve these advantages except being born to the right parents.</p>
<p>And it’s interesting. For example, Duke has a program where they try to lure the most brilliant kids away from Harvard by offering them a full ride, research opportunities, summer programs, etc. I know 2 kids who got that offer and an offer from Harvard. One kid had the money and went to Harvard anyway, and the other kid was poor and Harvard matched it. So even between Duke and Harvard, if money isn’t the issue kids will chose Harvard. Granted it’s only a small sample.</p>
<p>So I guess you prefer the attitude, I can afford a pricey school and screw everyone else rather than I think this is a bad system. Why don’t you take that resentment and try to do something useful with it?</p>
<p>How are assets currently verified? The tax return gives clues regarding assets (interest income, dividend income, rental income, etc). If corresponding assets are not reported, aid officers can request documentation. The majority of people are pretty honest, by the way.</p>
<p>*Why don’t you take that resentment and try to do something useful with it? *</p>
<p>I don’t have ANY resentment… You’re the one with all the resentment. I’m a believer that those who want pricey schools should pay for them.</p>
<p>My kids went to private K-12…that was a personal choice. I didn’t think others should pay for it because my kids or other kids are “bright.”</p>
<p>Most of our top schools are private, therefore no act from congress is going to change their policies one iota. </p>
<p>Besides…there are more super smart kids than there are seats at the elites…so there will always be super smart kids denied seats even if those schools were FREE.</p>
<p>Just want to apologize - I think some of my remarks were out of line. We all are trying to do the best for our kids and even if they don’t go to prestige schools (my second will most likely not) they will have their chance to shine and many at prestige schools will fall on their faces.</p>
<p>I have a tendency to get on a soap box. I also probably worry too much.</p>
<p>I’m probably older than you - mom of 2. In my day, (I had a pet saber tooth tiger), I think most Americans believed in equality of opportunity and that people should not be denied access to a school because of their family income. Social mobility was also an ideal. Elite schools were much cheaper relatively too. I knew lots of working class kids who went to schools like MIT, Barnard and Northwestern and no one ever mentioned the cost so I don’t think it was an issue. My friend got a merit scholarship and used it to go to NYU. I don’t think that would cover much of NYU tuition nowadays. I never heard anyone talking about going into a lot of debt to go.</p>
<p>I think some of the top schools were trying to deal with this by having no-loan policies. I don’t if they;re still doing this after losing some of their endowments.</p>
<p>But you’re right, there’s not a lot we can do about it.</p>
<p>There are simply more kids going to college now. The rankings have influenced the thinking of some parents. And there are some parents who want what they did not have for the kids. Almost all colleges want to stratefy to include different types of students which may not have been the mission three or four decades ago. The kids are more inclined to leave their region and it’s “easier” to do so Before you went where you could afford and yes there were a small, small number of “scholarship” students at many colleges. The kids are, I believe, no more or no less bright. College costs are risen but all college costs have risen not just a select group. The colleges are no more or no less “better.” It’s simply that broader groups of kids are looking at broader groups of colleges in my opinion.</p>
<p>Amazon, our experiences are colored by the circumstances in which we live. I am middle-aged and I have a totally different recollection of “the way it was” than you have. I was from a family that was not poor, but I would say we were struggling middle class. My parents were very good with their money, paying cash for everything, vacations at grandma’s, no dinners out, etc. When my brothers & I wanted to go to college, we chose what we could afford. NOT our state colleges, as we could only afford a state school if we chose the one a couple miles from home so we could live at home & continue to work at the fast food restaurant where we worked throughout high school (at $1.95/hour, if I recall correctly). We were high GPA, high SAT students who by CC standards should have been able to attend top-tier schools. Even back in the dinosaur days, WE had to choose our schools based on what we could afford … not what we wanted or “deserved.” Our dad never went to college because HE could not afford it (and yes, he was from a poor family). </p>
<p>For many of us, the struggle to afford college is nothing new.</p>
<p>Amazon, Thank you for the apology. You know…the financial aid system IS what it IS…and that is that. Some schools do not give merit aid and some do…and that is that. </p>
<p>Fortunately there is a college out there for every child…read the thread by momfromtexas who found near or full rides for both of her kids…and they were very different with regards to the stats they brought to the application process. Still, the family and kiddos were very open minded about the college applications and how finances entered into it.</p>
<p>I would love to hear an update from momfromtexas. Her story highlights that there are schools who will provide good merit aid to students. An older thread…but well worth the read.</p>
<p>I, too, would like to see an updated momfromtexas thread because many schools have since changed their scholarships.</p>
<p>However, the below link has assured scholarships…which for some is great for finding financial safety schools since the scholarships are not competitive. If you have the stats, you get the money :)</p>
<p>ASSURED SCHOLARSHIPS…$$$ CC Important links to Merit Scholarships given for stats… </p>
<p>I believe that if we want what’s best for our child, we prepare him for what life holds. Life is not about what we want, deserve, or dream of. Those are goals, not promises. At some point, they must learn to roll with the punches- and roll well. Otherwise, every loss is defeat. </p>
<p>Many of us have top-performing kids who deserve some hotshot college. For those of us who can’t (or don’t want to) pay full freight…speaking for my family: we didn’t say to our children, get a free ride at a Tippy Top or go to Lousy State. I said, we will research to find the best schools out there for you, that match your interests/excellence, with superior opportunities- and which maximize your aid. We could take out x loans. The final decision about taking student loans or dropping back to Plan C was theirs. </p>
<p>I understand OP and others are in shock. I was laidout of my career field, with no chance of reentering- and I think I am older than others here. At 2%, our savings wouldn’t pay for our annual car insurance.</p>
<p>Amazon- well, to my utter surprise, I just found this on the Harvard Gazette. It took effect with the freshman class entering in 2008 and is a quote from Derek Bok, interim President (and former President.) </p>
<p>“Early admission programs tend to advantage the advantaged,” Bok continued. “Students from more sophisticated backgrounds and affluent high schools often apply early to increase their chances of admission, while minority students and students from rural areas, other countries, and high schools with fewer resources miss out. Students needing financial aid are disadvantaged by binding early decision programs that prevent them from comparing aid packages. Others who apply early and gain admission to the college of their choice have less reason to work hard at their studies during their final year of high school.”)<br>
Sorry. In this case, Harvard meets full need. The student would not be in a position to back out for $ reasons. I believe they still could at a school which didn’t offer all the needed aid.</p>
<p>Well, if the school says your need is X amount and you think that it’s much higher, you can back out. If your family honestly can’t make the financial contribution that they ask you to make, what can they really do? Kill you? That would seriously damage their yield for the next admissions cycle.</p>
<p>But it seems elementary; Harvard doesn’t offer binding early decision anymore anyway, for the reasons in that article – it didn’t really do much for them since all it did was advantage kids who were already advantaged and intimidate kids who were underrepresented.</p>
<p>“In this case, Harvard meets full need. The student would not be in a position to back out for $ reasons.”</p>
<p>Agree with Gardna, meeting full need is irrelevant; the formulas don’t cover all possibilities. There are plenty of reasons that “officially” meeting full need doesn’t provide enough.</p>
<p>*Sorry. In this case, Harvard meets full need. The student would not be in a position to back out for $ reasons. I believe they still could at a school which didn’t offer all the needed aid. *</p>
<p>First of all, Harvard doesn’t have ED…but for other “full need” ED schools, you can still back out BECAUSE you have NO IDEA of how a CSS school will determine your family contribution. </p>
<p>For those with assets/savings/equity, it can be almost anyone’s guess as to how a CSS school will figure family contribution. Some families report ranges of $10k-20k in family contribution.</p>
<p>Also… those who have NCPs also have issues…one side doesn’t know the income/assets of the other. The “family contribution” comes as one big number, and if the “richer side” won’t pay a bigger share than the poorer side, that can also mean an FA package is unaffordable.</p>
<p>So…bottom line…you can decline an ED FA package from a full need school.</p>
<p>For heaven’s sake, I wanted to 'fess up that I had been wrong about ED not advantaging the affluent. My mistake in pasting it w/o the context. Here goes: It is a partial quote from Bok explaining why they moved away from ED. Also, my mistake in the way I looked at the “full need” offer. I don’t know the exectations would be here. I am still blown away that Bok said that. Anyway, more from them:
“…no contribution expected for families with incomes of under $60,000. Those parents with annual incomes of between $120,000 and $180,000 are asked to contribute an average ten percent of their income, with a declining percentage — from ten to zero — for parents with annual incomes between $120,000 and $60,000.”</p>
Anyway, more from them: