Georgetown IR compared to other programs?

<p>Hey everyone,
I found out today that I got into Georgetown's School of Foreign Service on Early Action, which was great; I'm really thrilled, and it means that I can now cancel a few of the other applications I was working on.</p>

<p>My problem is that I probably haven't done enough research into this as I should have. Georgetown was never "#1", mostly because I don't know enough about their program and the programs of other schools aside from a general idea of their standing in relation to other programs.</p>

<p>My question is, what colleges should I still apply to for International Relations (e.g. from the following list, which ones have programs in International Relations on par with Georgetown's, or better)? I was also planning to apply to:
- Harvard
- Princeton
- Yale
- Brown
- Stanford
- University of Chicago</p>

<p>Should I cut out UChicago, Stanford, and Brown, and just apply to Harvard, Princeton and Yale (from what I've read, Harvard and Princeton especially have amazing IR programs). Obviously I don't know whether I'd get into these universities in the first place, but I'd still like to aim for the best choice possible.</p>

<p>Just general information--I want to pursue International Relations / Economics / Politics almost certainly, but still want some flexibility in course choice.</p>

<p>I'd really appreciate any help or input you could give me!</p>

<p>Stanford also has a good program… And it’s warm there.</p>

<p>In IR, Georgetown is the clear choice. SFS not only has Heads of State and Cabinet officers on its faculty (the Presidents of Spain and Poland, Madeleine Albright, Donald McHenry, and George Tenet) but also has them for alumni (the current Heads of State of Lithuania, Jordan, the Phillipines, and the European Commission along with Bill Clinton and Crown Prince Felipe of Spain). There is probably no more important and influential place on planet earth today for the study of international relations than Georgetown SFS. The current Secretary of Defense Mr. Gaes and the National Security Advisor, General Jones are alumni and Secretary of State Clinton just made a major policy address at Georgetown this week.</p>

<p>I should also add that SFS is devoted to IR. Since teaching and research in IR are its mission, it has a separate budget and support for the largest array of international affairs classes offered by any institution.</p>

<p>Thanks for the comments so far everyone. It looks like Georgetown really is exception, but I’d just like to add that my final decision on what school I’d go to would probably depend on what kind of aid package I get, so I still want to keep my options open–but in your opinion, should I even bother applying to another school then?</p>

<p>Not if you want to study international relations and especially if you want a career in the field. Georgetown is the epicenter of the world in the IR field.</p>

<p>I love the SFS and wouldn’t want to be anywhere else. I got in EA and stopped, but if you would like to keep your options open for financial reasons I think applying to Princeton and Yale wouldn’t hurt. Keep in mind at Princeton you have to apply to Woodrow Wilson at the end of your sophomore year, so you are by no means assured admission into an IR major. However, if you do get in the program is fantastic. At Yale the IR major is a subset of the polisci department which isn’t an issue for everyone but I preferred how Georgetown structured the SFS. In general the broad variety of majors, concentrations and certificates the school supports makes it unique. You are in a great position. Good luck!</p>

<p>To sum up, the only school I would cut from your list no matter what is Brown; it’s substantially weaker in all areas of IR than any other school you’ve listed. From there, it depends on your more specific interests. Some schools that you may want to consider adding to the list are MIT (particularly if you’re interested in international security or international economics), Columbia (strong across the board in IR), GWU (if you’re interested in policy), Tufts (also for policy), and Dartmouth (if you’re interested in an academic career). I know you probably need to finalize your apps soon, but I’d be happy to discuss the particulars of your interests further if you’d like, and as always more info leads to better advice.</p>

<p>^That was part of a much longer post that somehow got mangled. My basic points were:</p>

<p>It depends on your specific goals/interests. You might be interested in 1) a policy career (e.g., State Department, CIA, etc.) 2) an academic career (i.e., pursue a PhD in IR/Polisci), 3) going on to professional school (e.g., law school) 4) pursuing a career that only tangentially relates to IR (e.g., consulting or investment banking). My recommendations for these cases are:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Policy: Go to Georgetown. It’s the best school hands down to prepare you for a policy career. There’s a huge advantage associated with being in Washington, and all of the opportunities it presents. SFS courses are also policy-oriented and the faculty are policy-driven. You have the celebrity faculty, like Tenet and Albright, but more importantly many of the faculty in the SFS have policy day jobs. Last semester, one of my professors was a Foreign Service officer spending the year teaching at Georgetown (and working part-time at the State Department headquarters), another was a top-level official in the DIA (Defense Intelligence Agency) who teaches an evening class at Georgetown, and a third spent most of his time as a consultant for the CIA and DoD. Absolutely no other school offers you opportunities like these in the IR world. Furthermore, Georgetown runs what are universally considered the best professional masters degrees in IR, and leads to a lot of opportunities and a lot of respect from government agencies and NGOs for Georgetown students (including undergrads). If, however, you want some other options for a policy career, you should apply to GWU and American (both in DC as well), but frankly those are just SFS wanabees. I’d also consider Princeton and Columbia, but none of the other schools on your list are really a good fit. Tufts is an honorable mention.</p></li>
<li><p>Academic Career: Georgetown’s still a good school, but you can do better. As I said SFS is policy-oriented, and naturally academics are more theoretically-oriented. Thus, your best bet is a school strong in those areas, and one that itself issues a PhD. Your best bets are Chicago, Harvard, Yale, Stanford, Princeton, and possibly MIT. Honorable mentions go to Georgetown, Columbia, Dartmouth, and Berkeley.</p></li>
<li><p>Law School: If you want to go to law school, I think the choices are less clear. Georgetown has some definite assets for this path. For example, you won’t have to deal with any core requirements in math/science as you would at schools like Chicago (for many people who are law school bound, this is a big plus). You’ll also find yourself surrounded by future lawyers (according to one of my professors, up to 50% of SFS grads go to law school). Finally, Georgetown Law is a T14 program, and there’s a program that allows you to apply early for admission to it without taking the LSAT (and there’s a lot of peace of mind in having been accepted to at least one law school as a junior). The primary downside at Georgetown is that Georgetown Law, while in the T14, consistently ranks at the bottom of that group. Just as Georgetown shows preference to its own undergrads in law admissions, Yale shows preferences to its own (and so do Harvard, Stanford, etc.). Thus, if you are dead-set on Yale Law, you’ll probably be best off at Yale. At the end of the day, however, law school is a numbers game. The right GPA and LSAT scores from any good college will get you in, so any of the schools on your list could work.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>4) Other careers (especially investment banking and consulting): With IB and consulting, school prestige is of great importance. Going to Georgetown while give you a big boost in your applications, but Harvard gives a bigger one. The general advice for these careers is to go to the most prestigious school where you can get in. Thus, Harvard, Yale, Princeton and Stanford are without a doubt your best bets.</p>

<p>"
2. Academic Career: Georgetown’s still a good school, but you can do better. As I said SFS is policy-oriented, and naturally academics are more theoretically-oriented. Thus, your best bet is a school strong in those areas, and one that itself issues a PhD. Your best bets are Chicago, Harvard, Yale, Stanford, Princeton, and possibly MIT. Honorable mentions go to Georgetown, Columbia, Dartmouth, and Berkeley."</p>

<p>This isn’t true at all. Everyone in SFS has to take a rigorous theoretically-oriented IR courseload in addition to any policy courses (which usually come after all degree requirements are fulfilled). Besides, why are you even mentioning this on the undergraduate level? The fact is that all IR graduate programs have the utmost respect for SFS and you’ll be able to do virtually any further education in IR you want if you don’t screw up in school.</p>

<p>Another thing to consider is that the 350 freshman at SFS are arguably the most brilliant cohort of undergraduates in America. Their SAT CR scores, from an old thread at CC are as follows:</p>

<p>Critical Reading 25 - CR 75 Private National University ( % of students submitting SAT scores )</p>

<p>700 - 800 Yale ( 92% )
700 - 790 Georgetown SFS (96%)
700 - 760 Caltech ( 97% )
690 - 800 Harvard ( 98% )
690 - 790 Princeton ( 98% )
690 - 780 U Chicago ( 79% )
680 - 770 Columbia ( 97% )
680 - 760 Wash U ( 75% )
670 - 750 Northwestern ( 80% )
670 - 750 Tufts ( 71% )
660 - 770 Dartmouth ( 78% )
660 - 770 Johns Hopkins ( 94% )
660 - 760 MIT ( 95% )
660 - 760 Duke ( 91% )
650 - 760 Stanford ( 93% )
650 - 760 Brown ( 92% )
650 - 750 Rice ( 97% )
650 - 740 U Penn ( 94% )
650 - 740 Vanderbilt ( 63% )
650 - 740 Notre Dame ( 55% )
650 - 740 Georgetown ( 92% )
640 - 740 Emory ( 88% )
640 - 720 Brandeis ( 81% )
630 - 730 Cornell ( 95% )
630 - 730 TOP PUBLIC (William & Mary)
630 - 720 Tulane ( 52% )
620 - 720 Carnegie Mellon ( 98% )
620 - 720 USC ( 84% )
620 - 720 NYU ( 87% )
610 - 700 Boston College ( 89% )
610 - 690 Wake Forest ( 72% )
600 - 700 U Rochester ( 92% )
600 - 690 Rensselaer ( 72% )
590 - 690 Case Western ( 80% )
590 - 680 Lehigh ( 93% )
590 - 680 George Washington ( 76% )
580 - 680 U Miami ( 62% )
580 - 670 Boston University ( 90% )
560 - 660 Fordham ( 90% )
560 - 660 SMU ( 69% )
550 - 670 Pepperdine ( 81% )
550 - 670 BYU ( 33% )
550 - 660 Worcester ( 93% )
540 - 670 Yeshiva ( 79% )
520 - 620 Syracuse ( 90% ) </p>

<p>Having this kind of talent enhances the educational experience beyond just having a group of people who can use polysyllabic words.</p>

<p>SFS is definitely better than all other schools in nation. Gtown SFS has MUCH better alumni network and prestige than Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Stanford. For anyone interested in IR, Economics and Politics it is definitely no contest. Congrats! You’re very lucky.</p>

<p>vienna man,</p>

<p>That SFS range is for “admitted” students. </p>

<p>My guess is the true range is 20 points less on both ends, i.e., 680 - 770.</p>

<p>FYI, the range for UChicago was overstated. collegeboard.com shows 660-770 and the school’s website says 1320-1530 for M+V. If the range in that list were correct, the M would have been 630 - 750, which seems too low.</p>

<p>Just heard from a friend that this early action season the CR scores for SFS acceptees moved “North” to 700-800. Do not get into a scrabble match with any of these people, especially if you are betting money.</p>

<p>“This isn’t true at all. Everyone in SFS has to take a rigorous theoretically-oriented IR courseload in addition to any policy courses (which usually come after all degree requirements are fulfilled). Besides, why are you even mentioning this on the undergraduate level? The fact is that all IR graduate programs have the utmost respect for SFS and you’ll be able to do virtually any further education in IR you want if you don’t screw up in school.”</p>

<p>Yes, the SFS curriculum is rigorous, yes it’s a good school, but it’s not tops for those who want to go on to the PhD. I say this as a Hoya who just finished sending out grad school apps. If you want to do grad school, it’s best to go to a program that itself has a great graduate program. Georgetown isn’t even in the top 10 for an IR PhD and is well behind the likes of Harvard, Princeton, Yale, Stanford, and Chicago. SFS is a fantastic school, but there’s no one in the SFS or the Government department who compares to people like Walt or Hoffman at Harvard, Keohane at Princeton, Fearon or Sagan at Stanford, or Mearsheimer at Chicago. By the same token, those schools don’t have people who compare to Madeleine Albright, George Tenet, Tony Lake or Chuck Hagel, but that’s the point. Georgetown has top-notch practitioners that the Ivies can’t match, and SFS exists to provide you that policy-relevant education. HYPS, on the other hand, have theorists and scholars that GU can’t match. Who does Georgetown even have doing serious work in IR theory? Nexon and Edelstein? Great guys sure, but neither of them is the next Waltz or Mearsheimer.</p>