Georgetown - Top or Not?

<p>Hi,</p>

<p>I'm from the UK and hoping to study in the US.</p>

<p>I've been doing extensive research and I'm a little uncertain about the status of Georgetown. I hear it referred to a lot in the media, giving me the impression that it has an excellent reputation. But league tables (College/GradSchool/Research output etc) consitently put it in the 20-30th bracket.</p>

<p>Is this unfair, an anomaly, or am I wrong to have thought that Georgetown was roughly equivalent to an Ivy League institution in terms of employment prospects and academic prestige?</p>

<p>Please let me hear your comments, and raise any discussion points.</p>

<p>Regards,</p>

<p>First off, don't bother with rankings.</p>

<p>The SFS is their most notable school, and the one that gets the media attention. The school is brilliant and one of the best for international relations, undoubtedely. The College and other schools (such as business school) are not at the top of their field but not bad either, by any means.</p>

<p>I'll let someone else do this but I would say Georgetown's peer schools are Cornell, UVA, Michigan, Northwestern etc,</p>

<p>Upoh... Really? That's interesting. I would say that the impression I get from the UK is that Georgetown's peer schools are Columbia, Penn, Berkeley. I'm not questioning your suggestions, just observing that international reputation clealy exceeds domestic. This is primarily because of frequent references in the news (world leaders speaking there), closeness to DC, and frequent references on shows like The West Wing.</p>

<p>Thanks,</p>

<p>Well, one could also say all the schools I mentioned above are peers of Penn and Berkeley (undergrad).</p>

<p>The SFS, though, as I did mention, is a brilliant school and gets a lot of attention because of its alumni list and global perspective. I got in there, but am ultimately not going. </p>

<p>Yeah, perceptions can be tainted across the pond. It's the same deal with NYU although Georgetown is a greater school than NYU (excluding Stern).</p>

<p>I wouldn't say that NYU has a much of a reputation in the UK. It just has name recognition for having New York in its title.</p>

<p>For me, before I really started researching US universities, I would say that reputation in the UK put Berkeley and Georgetown lower than rankings (US News) would suggest.</p>

<p>But it's funny the odd ideas that people get overseas. I know that in America St Andrews has a top reputation, whereas here it's not top-10 in most peoples' eyes.</p>

<p>I’d like to offer a paean to Georgetown. As the nation’s oldest Catholic university, Georgetown is a terrific school and arguably the most connected college in America when it comes to matters relating to the US government, particularly foreign affairs. In these areas, Georgetown is most definitely a peer to the most highly ranked schools in the USA. The student quality, as drawn from a highly selective admissions process, is high and geographically diverse (Mid-Atl 39%, NE 12%, MW 10%, SE 14%, W 13%, SW 4%, Int’l 7%). The students and alumni are very devoted to the school, displaying nearly unsurpassed loyalty to the school and providing important postgraduate connections. </p>

<p>IMO, the colleges that would be most similar in size, student caliber and school environment would be:</p>

<p>Georgetown, 6853 undergrads, 1390 avg SAT, 22% Acceptance Rate</p>

<p>About the same size for undergraduates:
Duke, 6330 undergrads, 1465 SAT, 21% accepted
Wash U, 7386 undergrads, 1450 SAT, 21% accepted
Brown, 6010 undergrads, 1440 SAT, 14% accepted
Northwestern, 8153 undergrads, 1410 SAT, 30% accepted
Vanderbilt, 6378 undergrads, 1370 SAT, 34% accepted
Emory, 6646 undergrads, 1350 SAT, 32% accepted
Notre Dame, 8352 undergrads, 1345 SAT, 27% accepted</p>

<p>A little larger:
U Penn, 9730 undergrads, 1420 SAT, 18% accepted</p>

<p>A little smaller:
Columbia, 4184 undergrads, 1420 SAT, 10% accepted
Tufts, 4995 undergrads, 1410 SAT, 27% accepted
Wake Forest, 4332 undergrads, 1340 SAT</p>

<p>There is some modest crossover in the applicant pool with some of the more prominent publics, most actively U Virginia, although they have different characteristics than the privates mentioned above. </p>

<p>W&M, 5734 undergrads, 1350 SAT, 32% accepted
U Virginia, 14,676 undergrads, 1325 SAT, 37% accepted
U North Carolina, 17,124 undergrads, 1290 SAT, 34% accepted
UC Berkeley, 23,863 undergrads, 1325 SAT, 24% accepted
U Michigan, 25, 555 undergrads, 1315 SAT, 47% accepted</p>

<p>Re the rankings for Georgetown, the school would likely enjoy a higher ranking but for two factors, both of which relate to its Jesuit history. First, the Peer Assessment scoring (worth 25%) is a 4.1. Historically, the academic world has been hostile to Catholic universities (eg, Notre Dame at 3.9!, Boston College at 3.6!) and this comes thru in these scores from persons in the academic world. (I would personally argue that Georgetown’s rep in the business world is much better.) Georgetown has shed some of this, but not completely and its lack of research in technical fields is another likely impediment to a high PA score. </p>

<p>The second factor hurting Georgetown’s ranking is its Faculty Resources ranking where it places 40th. Catholic schools have a reputation for frugality and this perhaps has led to operating patterns at Georgetown that result is in this lower ranking. For example, Georgetown only provides 57% of its classes with fewer than 20 students. As you might expect, the publics of Virginia, Michigan, UCLA, North Carolina, Wisconsin, UCSD, Ga Tech all fall below this level (but not UC Berkeley at 59%), but the only Top 40 privates that do are Johns Hopkins (51%), Catholic Notre Dame (50%), Wake Forest (54%), and Catholic Boston College (38%). </p>

<p>31% of Georgetown’s undergraduates major in the Social Sciences (in the Top 40, modestly smaller only to Harvard, Duke, U Chicago, and Tufts)) and another 25% in Business & Marketing. Georgetown’s undergraduate business school profile is not exceptional although the McDonough school is generally well regarded and places students effectively onto Wall Street and elsewhere.</p>

<p>Georgetown is a very strong school for law and politics; in this respect, it rivals the top schools, especially for opportunities in and around D.C. Honestly, I think that as an international applicant, there'd really be no better way to acquaint oneself with the U.S. than to attend Georgetown.</p>

<p>My father and sister are Georgetown alums. Georgetown is an awesome university. One should remember that the US has a pupulation the size of Western Europe and a landmass three times the size of Western Europe. The top 25 universities in the US are Worldclass, and Georgetown is one of those universities. Plus it has a nice campus and is located in a great collegiate part of one of American's best cities. You really cannot go wrong with Georgetown, especially if you wish to become a diplomat, lawyer or businessman.</p>

<p>Alexandre sums it up well. You don't need to bother with rankings and where exactly Georgetown places on said arbritiary ranking scales.</p>

<p>I read that you want to do your Master's in Public Policy. You should be very happy to get admitted into Georgetown if you decide to pursue an application there.</p>

<p>That's all you need to know.</p>

<p>Out of Private schools:</p>

<p>Tier 1 ---> Harvard Yale Princeton Stanford MIT
Then Dartmouth, Duke, Penn, Columbia, Brown, Northwestern, Chicago, JHU and I would say Georgetown is around this area as well.</p>

<p>Georgetown is hurt because it doesn't focus on scientific research in the way of the above schools, and that the Peer Assessment score (which is a score that favors large grad programs) weights down schools without strong research programs. </p>

<p>Its a great school. I would consider Georgetown as well as any of the other schools I mentioned. </p>

<p>However, its not on par with the Ivy League in terms of admissions into top professional schools, overall prestige or student strength. Only 5-6 private schools fall in this category (Stanford, MIT, Duke, Chicago, Northwestern, maybe one more) and I wouldn't say Georgetown is part of that category.</p>

<p>well if you plan on doing international work centered throughout europe, SFS is probably the best school for it in the world.</p>

<p>LSE would also be a great bet for you if you plan on still living in the UK for the rest of ur life.</p>

<p>I doubt that Georgetown SFS will prepare you better than doing a relevant major at another top 10 private school</p>

<p>Don't limit your search to just Georgetown, there are many top private schools in the US, Georgetown SFS is just one of many programs you should be considering .</p>

<p>Also - if you apply to more, it will increase your chances of admissions into atleast one.</p>

<p>Hawkette is so right about the absurdly warped weight given the wacko peer assessment.I hadn't considered the Catholic colleges being shafted,even though that's obviously the case,as I've always been astounded at the grossly wrong rankings assigned the many premier Southern schools.
Word of mouth,actual visits to schools,alternative guides like ISI's Choosing The Right College(2008 edition should be out soon) and ISI's All American Colleges are aids to the truth.</p>

<p>I agree with above. Rankings are arbitrary numbers given to well-known schools. "Top 10", "High ranks", they all mean nothing. What matters is what you are looking for in a college. </p>

<p>If Georgetown has the qualities you are looking for, outlined in Hawkette's post, then it would be a very good fit.</p>

<p>Tigers Rule: "alternative guides like ISI's Choosing The Right College(2008 edition should be out soon) and ISI's All American Colleges are aids to the truth."</p>

<p>One should be aware of ISI's point of view in evaluating this guide:
<a href="http://www.pfaw.org/pfaw/general/default.aspx?oid=16247%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.pfaw.org/pfaw/general/default.aspx?oid=16247&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Actually, rankings aren't "arbitrary numbers given to well-known schools" - most rankings (US News, THES, WSJ feeder) give very information about the criteria used, so you can judge for yourself how relevant they are to what you are looking for. Popular rankings compile a large amount of useful data. Also, data such as SAT scores, number of National Merit Scholars, and class rank are also publicly available. People call rankings "arbitrary" when they don't want it to be apparent that institutions that they like aren't as strong as they would like to believe. </p>

<p>Georgetown doesn't place that high because there are many colleges better than it in areas such as student body strength, resources, and grad placement. Sure, Georgetown might be the best place for OP. However, there are many other great schools if you are looking at American colleges that can give you strong connections in international relations, and are also internationally well-known.</p>

<p>In the meantime, I would say that if you are looking at Georgetown for SFS, the following schools are stronger/more prestigious or atleast just as good and worth considering:</p>

<p>Harvard, Princeton, Yale, Stanford, Penn College of Arts and Sciences, Columbia, Duke, Brown, Northwestern, Chicago.</p>

<p>Harvard, Princeton, Yale, Stanford, Columbia and Duke all rank in the top 20 of the Times Higher Education Supplement, which is the ranking done by the London Times of international Universities (I figure this might be relevant since you are British).</p>

<p>Georgetown is a great school for foreign service, but the above colleges are also excellent.</p>

<p>As an added note, many regard "tier 1" schools to be roughly top 25 on the US News scale.</p>

<p>Georgetown is weird.
It has tons of international prestige.
It's represented better than any school except for HYP in the media.
But when you look at the numbers...it's neither that "good" nor that hard to get into.</p>

<p>Also Georgetown has a smaller endowment than the ivys and other tier-1 schools which hurt it in the rankings.</p>

<p>The fact is, to rank a school you must find some sort of quantitative data to compare and contrast. That is the only way to have a systematic ranking system, even though most people agree they suck.</p>

<p>I am also very interested in SFS but I was wondering of any other schools that offer equally as good programs. Besides the location of G-town I also like the notion of how SFS is its own school and not just a major offered at a school's general college.</p>

<p>hypothetically, prestige for employment/grad school (law and mba) purposes? </p>

<p>georgetown sfs vs. northwestern vs. uchicago vs. dartmouth vs. amherst</p>