<p>I'm the straight A type student, but I've been really struggling in regular chemistry this semester. I had an A last semester, but this semester has just been really hard. I do try, but my teacher delieberatly makes the tests really hard, and he likes to give us trick questions and college level tests "for fun," and only two people in my class has A's. There is a chance that i will get an A, but if i do get a B in the class, will there be no hope for me at ivies or any of the top colleges?</p>
<p>One grade is NEVER "make or break" at any college. Not even the Ivies accept only straight-A students. Your application will be reviewed holistically; your rank, GPA, and standardized test scores will play a part, but so will the overall rigor of your schedule, your letters of recommendation, your essays, your extracurricular activities, and some other factors. </p>
<p>But I repeat: a B will NOT ruin your chances ANYWHERE. Don't worry about that.</p>
<p>That's not really true, Anniushka... Most of students accepted to the upper ivies (minus Cornell, Columbia...) who don't have an amazing specialty .. star tennis player, physics National team, or minority race advantage ... have a 4.0. The B doesn't kill your chances, but depending on how competitive your high school is, which Ivies you're talking about, and what other talents you have, the B will make an impact, even make or break the acceptance. However, better to get a B early on in high school than in junior year.</p>
<p>Oh come on, one B isn't going to kill ya...</p>
<p>omg r u fcking serious....</p>
<p>I agree with Anniushka. Top Ivies have tens of thousands of qualified, non-hooked applicants--given similar EC's, why would they pick a 3.9 over a 4.0?</p>
<p>I see that we disagree, amb3r. </p>
<p>So, if all a person has going for them is the GPA, then a B will ruin that. But if all a person has going for them is the GPA, then they certainly don't stand a chance of getting into an Ivy League school. </p>
<p>You're right that if you have got no "amazing specialty," then a B in a sea of As will hurt and perhaps speed you on your way to the enormous "reject" pile. However, if you haven't got something amazing about you (and a 4.0 isn't amazing), then what are the chances of an Ivy accepting you, anyway? Isn't being amazing kind of a prerequisite for acceptance at an Ivy? They don't say, "Oh, this one seems like a nice kid, let's accept him/her." You have to be amazing in some way. And again... a 4.0 isn't amazing.</p>
<p>The point that I was trying to impress upon the OP is that GPA isn't the be-all and end-all of a college application. That's pretty much an accepted fact. If you're a strong Ivy League candidate but you have one solitary B... I'm sorry, but I just don't see that breaking your chances of admission.</p>
<p>And if one solitary B does break your chances, then there had to have been some other issues with your application. The B can't do it alone.</p>
<p><em>sigh</em> I'm just going to keep flopping around with this argument, so I'll hit "Post reply" and send it out into the world...</p>
<p>Basically, what I was trying to say is that if OP is the "average Ivy applicant" then 1 B could make a lot of difference. Nothing is wrong with the average Ivy applicant's resume, per se, but it lacks some superstar aspect, so adcoms are going to be far less forgiving about little flaws. For an above average Ivy applicant, I could see the sub 4.0 GPA causing the adcom to choose one of the other above average Ivy applicants with a 4.0</p>
<p>But anyway, Anniushka, I think we're mostly in agreement about this. Both of us think that a strong applicant who would otherwise have had a good chance of getting into a school probably won't be hurt by a B. But a student on the cusp could very well be hurt.</p>
<p>The "average Ivy applicant" gets rejected.</p>
<p>I dug up some stats about some selective colleges' freshman classes. These are not necessarily to refute amb3r's claims, but rather for the benefit of the thread as a whole:</p>
<p>Princeton:
78% had h.s. GPA of 3.75 and higher</p>
<p>Stanford:
94% had h.s. GPA of 3.75 and higher</p>
<p>Dartmouth:
62% had h.s. GPA of 3.75 and higher
18% had h.s. GPA between 3.5 and 3.74
10% had h.s. GPA between 3.25 and 3.49
6% had h.s. GPA between 3.0 and 3.24
2% had h.s. GPA between 2.5 and 2.99 (!)
1% had h.s. GPA between 2.0 and 2.49 (!!)
1% had h.s. GPA between 1.0 and 1.99 (!!!)</p>
<p>U of Pennsylvania:
58% had h.s. GPA of 3.75 and higher
19% had h.s. GPA between 3.5 and 3.74
13% had h.s. GPA between 3.25 and 3.49
7% had h.s. GPA between 3.0 and 3.24
3% had h.s. GPA between 2.5 and 2.99</p>
<p>Well, we can't rule out legacies, minorities (lower stat requirements), special cases like sports, other applicants with non academic talents like musical/artistic genius. </p>
<p>And when I said average Ivy applicant, I misspoke a little bit. I just meant, the applicant who is clearly hovering around Ivy material, but does not have a strong chance of an admit. Average in the sense of not extraordinary, not in the sense of 'typical'.I go to a pretty competitive HS and we've admitted at least one person to nearly every Ivy every year for as long as I can remember (last four years). I can't remember more than three of those admits (over the 4 year span) not having 4.0. And those 3 fell in the special circumstances category, two double legacies and one minority. Of course I'm not saying GPA is why they got into the Ivy, because it's not... just some experimental evidence.</p>
<p>The numbers for UPenn and Dartmouth really shocked me, though. Only 58% above 3.75 for UPenn? That's pretty shocking. Maybe heavy legacy emphasis there? I don't know.</p>
<p>My 2 cents: If you're scared of your GPA, you won't go far. Be courageous and do your best; don't let that B think you're a failure of life or not qualified for an ivy league. If I were scared of getting B's, I wouldn't have taken some of the amazing classes in school (i.e. AP Lit, APUSH). So don't let your GPA scare you because you have more things to think about in your life.</p>
<p>Well, I guess you (amb3r) and I just come from different backgrounds and different experiences. I can see that your experiences support your point of view on the topic, which is really the only way valid points of view can work, so that's fine with me. :)</p>
<p>But I still stand by my opinion that one factor (i.e., a slightly below-4.0 GPA) can't single-handedly make or break an application. (Um... if that one factor is "A letter of rec that details the applicant's history of massive cheating," or "An extensive criminal record," then obviously that can easily break an application... but that's not what we're talking about here. :p) That's the official word from Anniushka, given that I don't know anything about the OP's other credentials. For the OP, a B might be the straw that breaks the camel's back,* but I imagine that particular situation is only occasionally the case in college admissions. </p>
<p>*I really think this metaphor is suited perfectly to what we're discussing.</p>
<p>Hmmmm. Okay, truce :)</p>
<p>omfg a bee no wai? sooisyde!</p>
<p>/yawn</p>
<p>GPA doesn't determine whether you get in or not. rank, sat scores, RECOMMENDATIONS, COURSE LOAD and EC's</p>
<p>you shouldn't have got a B in the first place. Then you wouldn't have had this problem now would ya?</p>
<p>There was a time when I thought the sun rose and set based on my grades. Of course, I now know that believing in such notions is like believing in Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, the Tooth Fairy, and CNBC.</p>
<p>I graduated from high school 15 years ago, undergraduate school 11 years ago, and graduate school 3 years ago (earned my MSEE in 2 years). NOBODY today cares that I was AP Scholar with Honor, National Merit Finalist, or salutatorian. On the other hand, NOBODY today cares that I couldn't hack it in AP US History (had to switch to regular), had a joke of a senior project in undergraduate electrical engineering (probably the worst ever in the history of EE at UIUC), and graduated at or near the bottom of the class as an MSEE at George Mason University.</p>
<p>As far as getting into an Ivy or Ivy type school, the admissions decisions are so unpredictable that for all we know, things like the mood of the admissions officer reviewing an application, the phases of the moon, and the temperature in Scottsbluff, Nebraska can make a difference. The admissions rates are so low that these schools are a long shot for everyone, even those with a perfect GPA, 5s on every AP Exam known to humankind, 800s on every ETS exam known to humankind, a Nobel Prize, enough community service to qualify as the world's next Mother Theresa, AND a record of curing cancer and solving world hunger. Just trying to achieve one or two of these ideals is tough enough, much less trying to achieve them ALL.</p>
<p>So there's no need for any of you to knock yourselves out trying to achieve some ideal that in the end STILL might not be "good enough".</p>
<p>athenegoddess:</p>
<p>PLEASE stop drinking the Academic Performance Cult Kool-Aid. I used to drink it myself. I am SO disturbed that ever since I defected from the cult, many others have entered it and drink FAR MORE of the Kool-Aid than I ever did. Believe me, I was the obsessive one back in high school, but many of the students here make my old self look like Zack Morris, Ferris Bueller, Jeff Spiccoli, or Bill and Ted in comparison.</p>
<p>I don't think one B is going to ruin your life or your chances. I mean, there are people who get 4.0's and are rejected at Ivy schools. Trust me, that is something you shouldn't be worried about. Nobody is perfect; enjoy life.</p>
<p>
[quote]
That's not really true, Anniushka... Most of students accepted to the upper ivies (minus Cornell, Columbia...) who don't have an amazing specialty .. star tennis player, physics National team, or minority race advantage ... have a 4.0. The B doesn't kill your chances, but depending on how competitive your high school is, which Ivies you're talking about, and what other talents you have, the B will make an impact, even make or break the acceptance. However, better to get a B early on in high school than in junior year.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>hmm.. that's not necessarily true. My high school is ultra-competitive, cut-throat even (i.e kids don't share notes with absent kids, kids try to sabatoge other's homework and assignments, steal their pencils before tests, etc), and we get around 30-35 accepts to the Ivy League, about 5-7 to Stanford, 2-3 for MIT. </p>
<p>The average GPA you ask? 3.893 UW (HYPSM) - roughly equates to about 5 Bs.</p>
<p>And of course, they can't ALL be special cases (donors, legacies, URMs etc). And I don't think they were all nationally recognized "stars".</p>
<p>There are too many other factors to be considered. And to your example regarding the two people. </p>
<p>Amazing person #1 with 3.9
Amazing person #2 with 4.0
(same stats + same ECs)</p>
<p>I would base the acceptance on the interview (their personalities can't POSSIBLY the same) and the essays/letters of rec (which can't be the same). </p>
<p>I'm saying this out of experience (hiring people for my company).</p>